Serious question for Catholics

[Anonymous]

Except that not all saints were so hole. Thomas Moore had Protestants burned at the stake for their religion. And, take a look at one who is likely soon to be canonized - Stepinac. Many Serbs and Jews believe him to have been complicit in genocide and forced conversions during WW II.

[Anonymous]

Make that "holy"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except that not all saints were so hole. Thomas Moore had Protestants burned at the stake for their religion. And, take a look at one who is likely soon to be canonized - Stepinac. Many Serbs and Jews believe him to have been complicit in genocide and forced conversions during WW II.

Are forced conversions necessarily a bad thing? seemd like anything that brings people to Christ is OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except that not all saints were so hole. Thomas Moore had Protestants burned at the stake for their religion. And, take a look at one who is likely soon to be canonized - Stepinac. Many Serbs and Jews believe him to have been complicit in genocide and forced conversions during WW II.

Are forced conversions necessarily a bad thing? seemd like anything that brings people to Christ is OK.

Yeah, like Jews being tortured in the Spanish Inquisition. Loved that. So many more souls to Christ. Whew!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, DH is foreign and Orthodox (not sure why they are getting a pass on the statues, candles etc and the Catholics are not).

This is how he explains praying to Mary if one needs something instead of to Jesus. That is that any man will do what his mother tells him to do, Jesus included.

There is obviously a cultural thing going on here, but DH holds that the wedding at Cana demonstrates this fact about Jesus. Mary tells Jesus the hosts have run out of time, Jesus demurs saying his time has not yet come, she insists again, and so he then converts the water into wine.

This would mean that the best way to get your prayers answered would be to pray to Mary instead of to Jesus. I never heard any representative of the church say that.

Folk wisdom among many Orthodox. You pray to Mary that she intercede on your behalf with her son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking a saint to pray for you or a particular request of yours is not any different from asking friends and family members to pray for you. Of course, we could all pray only for ourselves, but many people do pray for others and ask others to pray for them. Including those who are already in heaven in those requests for prayers is something some people like to do, but no one has to do this and the Catholic Church does not require the practice.

Prayer is a very personal thing. I know that my mother prayed for me regularly when she was alive, and I still ask her to pray for me now that she is gone. Anyone in heaven is a saint and I hope, and pray, that my mother is in heaven now and is praying for me.

OP, do you understand that asking those in heaven to pray for us is the same as asking friends to pray for us?

his is not a belief of the Catholic Church. There is a very grueling process for sainthood, including proof of 2 miracles performed by the would-be saint after death.

The communion of the saints is Catholic doctrine.

"The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (1 Corinthians 1:2 — Greek Text)."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking a saint to pray for you or a particular request of yours is not any different from asking friends and family members to pray for you. Of course, we could all pray only for ourselves, but many people do pray for others and ask others to pray for them. Including those who are already in heaven in those requests for prayers is something some people like to do, but no one has to do this and the Catholic Church does not require the practice.

Prayer is a very personal thing. I know that my mother prayed for me regularly when she was alive, and I still ask her to pray for me now that she is gone. Anyone in heaven is a saint and I hope, and pray, that my mother is in heaven now and is praying for me.

OP, do you understand that asking those in heaven to pray for us is the same as asking friends to pray for us?

his is not a belief of the Catholic Church. There is a very grueling process for sainthood, including proof of 2 miracles performed by the would-be saint after death.

The communion of the saints is Catholic doctrine.

"The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices. The participants in that solidarity are called saints by reason of their destination and of their partaking of the fruits of the Redemption (1 Corinthians 1:2 — Greek Text)."

Purgatory is mentioned in the Bible? That's news to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asking a saint to pray for you or a particular request of yours is not any different from asking friends and family members to pray for you. Of course, we could all pray only for ourselves, but many people do pray for others and ask others to pray for them. Including those who are already in heaven in those requests for prayers is something some people like to do, but no one has to do this and the Catholic Church does not require the practice.

Prayer is a very personal thing. I know that my mother prayed for me regularly when she was alive, and I still ask her to pray for me now that she is gone. Anyone in heaven is a saint and I hope, and pray, that my mother is in heaven now and is praying for me.

OP, do you understand that asking those in heaven to pray for us is the same as asking friends to pray for us?

his is not a belief of the Catholic Church. There is a very grueling process for sainthood, including proof of 2 miracles performed by the would-be saint after death.

You are talking about canonized saints. Everyone who goes to heaven is a saint. Canonization is the church formally recognizing that certain people are saints, due to the nature of their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except that not all saints were so hole. Thomas Moore had Protestants burned at the stake for their religion. And, take a look at one who is likely soon to be canonized - Stepinac. Many Serbs and Jews believe him to have been complicit in genocide and forced conversions during WW II.

Are forced conversions necessarily a bad thing? seemd like anything that brings people to Christ is OK.

WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except that not all saints were so hole. Thomas Moore had Protestants burned at the stake for their religion. And, take a look at one who is likely soon to be canonized - Stepinac. Many Serbs and Jews believe him to have been complicit in genocide and forced conversions during WW II.

And St. Paul was a soldier who killed Christians before he converted.

[Anonymous]

But it at least it was before he converted. More and Stepinac acted as Catholics on behalf of the Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people are well aware of how contradictory Catholicism is. It's especially obvious in Europe with the Vatican being so wealthy even with a refugee crisis going on. Now the Catholic Church is changing its party line on female priests but mainly for political reasons.

Catholicism comes across to me as a man made religion. Which is why there is so much emphasis on priests and the Pope as opposed to Jesus. It's why mass is so fancy. Previously it was a way to govern (I.e. Control people) and the church didn't even hold church services in the native tongue. It's sad because i don't believe that was at all the intent of Christianity. I'm sure there are great things about the Catholic Church but I have little desire to join a religion that's so heavily influenced by men living in an ivory tower in Rome.

This is classic baiting.

Don't feed the troll.

It's also factual

Actually it isn't. The church hasn't changed its party line on female priests.

Also, I find it amazing that Islam is an extremely wealthy religion with the refugee crisis going on. Not to mention the Mormons and the Jews. Actually Protestants too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people are well aware of how contradictory Catholicism is. It's especially obvious in Europe with the Vatican being so wealthy even with a refugee crisis going on. Now the Catholic Church is changing its party line on female priests but mainly for political reasons.

Catholicism comes across to me as a man made religion. Which is why there is so much emphasis on priests and the Pope as opposed to Jesus. It's why mass is so fancy. Previously it was a way to govern (I.e. Control people) and the church didn't even hold church services in the native tongue. It's sad because i don't believe that was at all the intent of Christianity. I'm sure there are great things about the Catholic Church but I have little desire to join a religion that's so heavily influenced by men living in an ivory tower in Rome.

This is classic baiting.

Don't feed the troll.

It's also factual

Actually it isn't. The church hasn't changed its party line on female priests.

Also, I find it amazing that Islam is an extremely wealthy religion with the refugee crisis going on. Not to mention the Mormons and the Jews. Actually Protestants too.

+1. And what a leap! How is it the Church's job to feed and shelter the refugees in Europe and not that of the governments that let them in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re asking saints to intercede - Why not just go right to the top?

Why do you ask people to pray for you? Why not just do it all yourself?

When someone offers to pray for me, I say "Don't you dare! Keep your silly prayers to yourself! I only deal with God and don't want to be bothered by the likes of you!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re asking saints to intercede - Why not just go right to the top?

Why do you ask people to pray for you? Why not just do it all yourself?

When someone offers to pray for me, I say "Don't you dare! Keep your silly prayers to yourself! I only deal with God and don't want to be bothered by the likes of you!"

You tell 'em! What nerve they have to think that they have a better line to God than you do!