Where did the B students at the top independent schools end up going to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They feel it would be an invasion of privacy as the school is relatively small. Having been through the process, It hasn't been very useful for top students. In fact, misleading. given the strong connections area private school families have to colleges. And for excellent but slightly less selective schools, standard GPA and test score publications tell you as much.

Agree that Naviance isn't all that, but Sidwell's policy toward providing access to parents and students only adds to the hype, as well as the sense that counselors are playing hide the ball with many families. All too often, Sidwell acts in a way that heightens the belief that some people have inside info while the rest of us are forever on the periphery. Our kids have gotten a good education at SFS and they got lucky in the college admissions crapshoot, but I'm so glad we'll be out of there soon. And, no, I'm not going to be one of those "graduated parents" who continues to give money to the school.

I am a Sidwell parent, and my views about Naviance have changed over the years. I just wonder if seeing Naviance would really provide useful information. The sample sizes are pretty small, and every year there are kids who "could never" get into this school or that school who end up going there. This year's class did amazingly well in college admissions, but I suspect Naviance data would have dissuaded some students from applying to the schools they ultimately got into. It is such a personal process. So many kids have top grades these days; I suspect personal stories are more compelling to admissions officers. Those stories do not have to be about being disadvantaged -- it could be just a real story about how a student comes to love a subject or an activity. URM and legacy status does matter, but there are other factors at play at well. Those things do not show up on Naviance -- it's usefulness is quite limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. We calculated our DD at 3.3from Sidwell and she got into UVA, but she had very high SAT and strong grades in one field.

We have a Sidwell student and have no clue how to calculate GPA based on Sidwell grades for purposes of figuring out what colleges are safeties, targets or reaches. (This may apply to other top privates as well.)

We are just trying to determine a GPA to use as a guide when looking at Fiske et al. Can anyone help? The school does not officially calculate, but apparently they do for purposes of plotting you on Naviance scattergrams (which, of course, we can only sorta see looking over the shoulder of our college counselor at an in-office meeting). That sorta recalculated GPA accounts for some advanced classes (no clue which ones), since few are actually labeled "advanced." We are not given access to that Naviance information, however, and instead need to rely on what we can piece together from very limited meetings, friends or various internet sources. IMHO, having gone through this elsewhere, this secrecy is bogus.

Moving on... Help! How do we calculate Sidwell GPA for purposes of determining what is a safety, target, or reach??? How do you build the very advanced curriculum, etc.?

Sidwell GPA is calculated like any other GPA -- 4.0 for A, 3.67 for A-, etc . . .. There is no weighting for advanced classes. In my experience, students with a GPA of 3.5 or above are the ones who have a shot at top colleges (at least without a hook). That does not mean they will be accepted, but they have a shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They feel it would be an invasion of privacy as the school is relatively small. Having been through the process, It hasn't been very useful for top students. In fact, misleading. given the strong connections area private school families have to colleges. And for excellent but slightly less selective schools, standard GPA and test score publications tell you as much.

Agree that Naviance isn't all that, but Sidwell's policy toward providing access to parents and students only adds to the hype, as well as the sense that counselors are playing hide the ball with many families. All too often, Sidwell acts in a way that heightens the belief that some people have inside info while the rest of us are forever on the periphery. Our kids have gotten a good education at SFS and they got lucky in the college admissions crapshoot, but I'm so glad we'll be out of there soon. And, no, I'm not going to be one of those "graduated parents" who continues to give money to the school.

I am a Sidwell parent, and my views about Naviance have changed over the years. I just wonder if seeing Naviance would really provide useful information. The sample sizes are pretty small, and every year there are kids who "could never" get into this school or that school who end up going there. This year's class did amazingly well in college admissions, but I suspect Naviance data would have dissuaded some students from applying to the schools they ultimately got into. It is such a personal process. So many kids have top grades these days; I suspect personal stories are more compelling to admissions officers. Those stories do not have to be about being disadvantaged -- it could be just a real story about how a student comes to love a subject or an activity. URM and legacy status does matter, but there are other factors at play at well. Those things do not show up on Naviance -- it's usefulness is quite limited.

I absolutely agree with you regarding the value of Naviance, but the school could say all this and then simply provide access to the data as so many other schools do. Instead, they guard the information, which, of course, only heightens the interest in seeing it. Really, Naviance should be paying Sidwell for creating this stealth marketing campaign.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They feel it would be an invasion of privacy as the school is relatively small. Having been through the process, It hasn't been very useful for top students. In fact, misleading. given the strong connections area private school families have to colleges. And for excellent but slightly less selective schools, standard GPA and test score publications tell you as much.

Agree that Naviance isn't all that, but Sidwell's policy toward providing access to parents and students only adds to the hype, as well as the sense that counselors are playing hide the ball with many families. All too often, Sidwell acts in a way that heightens the belief that some people have inside info while the rest of us are forever on the periphery. Our kids have gotten a good education at SFS and they got lucky in the college admissions crapshoot, but I'm so glad we'll be out of there soon. And, no, I'm not going to be one of those "graduated parents" who continues to give money to the school.

I am a Sidwell parent, and my views about Naviance have changed over the years. I just wonder if seeing Naviance would really provide useful information. The sample sizes are pretty small, and every year there are kids who "could never" get into this school or that school who end up going there. This year's class did amazingly well in college admissions, but I suspect Naviance data would have dissuaded some students from applying to the schools they ultimately got into. It is such a personal process. So many kids have top grades these days; I suspect personal stories are more compelling to admissions officers. Those stories do not have to be about being disadvantaged -- it could be just a real story about how a student comes to love a subject or an activity. URM and legacy status does matter, but there are other factors at play at well. Those things do not show up on Naviance -- it's usefulness is quite limited.

I absolutely agree with you regarding the value of Naviance, but the school could say all this and then simply provide access to the data as so many other schools do. Instead, they guard the information, which, of course, only heightens the interest in seeing it. Really, Naviance should be paying Sidwell for creating this stealth marketing campaign.

+1 They always recommend school you have never heard of that are about two steps down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They feel it would be an invasion of privacy as the school is relatively small. Having been through the process, It hasn't been very useful for top students. In fact, misleading. given the strong connections area private school families have to colleges. And for excellent but slightly less selective schools, standard GPA and test score publications tell you as much.

Agree that Naviance isn't all that, but Sidwell's policy toward providing access to parents and students only adds to the hype, as well as the sense that counselors are playing hide the ball with many families. All too often, Sidwell acts in a way that heightens the belief that some people have inside info while the rest of us are forever on the periphery. Our kids have gotten a good education at SFS and they got lucky in the college admissions crapshoot, but I'm so glad we'll be out of there soon. And, no, I'm not going to be one of those "graduated parents" who continues to give money to the school.

I am a Sidwell parent, and my views about Naviance have changed over the years. I just wonder if seeing Naviance would really provide useful information. The sample sizes are pretty small, and every year there are kids who "could never" get into this school or that school who end up going there. This year's class did amazingly well in college admissions, but I suspect Naviance data would have dissuaded some students from applying to the schools they ultimately got into. It is such a personal process. So many kids have top grades these days; I suspect personal stories are more compelling to admissions officers. Those stories do not have to be about being disadvantaged -- it could be just a real story about how a student comes to love a subject or an activity. URM and legacy status does matter, but there are other factors at play at well. Those things do not show up on Naviance -- it's usefulness is quite limited.

I am the previous poster and I agree that the school should provide the date; I would just discount it. And yes, the counselors do like to play it too safe sometimes. As a parent, it is good to push back and be willing to stretch if your child can handle the stress of not getting into a reach school. If that would be too stressful, there's no harm in going early to a slightly safer school -- not a safety, but maybe school that's less of a reach. Makes for a happy senior year. It really just depends. Some of the happiest kids are the ones who passed on Yale to go ED to Tufts, Wash U, etc....

I absolutely agree with you regarding the value of Naviance, but the school could say all this and then simply provide access to the data as so many other schools do. Instead, they guard the information, which, of course, only heightens the interest in seeing it. Really, Naviance should be paying Sidwell for creating this stealth marketing campaign.

[Anonymous]

I am the previous poster and I agree that the school should provide the date; I would just discount it. And yes, the counselors do like to play it too safe sometimes. As a parent, it is good to push back and be willing to stretch if your child can handle the stress of not getting into a reach school. If that would be too stressful, there's no harm in going early to a slightly safer school -- not a safety, but maybe school that's less of a reach. Makes for a happy senior year. It really just depends. Some of the happiest kids are the ones who passed on Yale to go ED to Tufts, Wash U, etc....

SFS is a school where probably 75% of the kids apply to Ivies or equivalents (Stanford, Chicago, and top LACs). I think about 30-40 kids are headed in that direction this year. It makes for a VERY competitive college environment.

[Anonymous]

Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

Ugh all that money at NCS with that reputation for College Park?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

At another competitive high school, the college counselors are pretty pointed in challenging parental expectations that their children take the hardest possible courses in every subject. They like to point out that getting Bs in subjects they don't like and don't expect to pursue in college is less advantageous than taking advanced courses in the classes they do enjoy and getting As. They encouraged my humanities-oriented DC to take all the really advanced literature electives (that DC will get As) that he loves rather than to slog through an AP science class and get a B. A transcript of only Bs in really tough courses will put any student behind their Ivy bound classmates. Almost no one at our school gets straight As, so the Ivy admissions officers are used to admitting many students with Bs and B+s and GPAs in the 3.5-3.7 range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

Ugh all that money at NCS with that reputation for College Park?

This makes sense to me. The previous poster said her daughter was a B student in the most rigorous classes. A B student in less rigorous classes would not fare as well. Of course an A student in the most rigorous classes will do the best of all. My DD was an A- student at SFS with mostly top classes (not the very top math group) and 99% standardized test scores. She had sports and leadership and ended up at a top 10 university. I think that is a fairly typical outcome at SFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

Ugh all that money at NCS with that reputation for College Park?

This makes sense to me. The previous poster said her daughter was a B student in the most rigorous classes. A B student in less rigorous classes would not fare as well. Of course an A student in the most rigorous classes will do the best of all. My DD was an A- student at SFS with mostly top classes (not the very top math group) and 99% standardized test scores. She had sports and leadership and ended up at a top 10 university. I think that is a fairly typical outcome at SFS.

I should also say this is a comparison made with her being white, unhooked (no sports) but no need for FA and the colleges listed for her peers was also for similar kids. B students who were alumni kids, athletes, or URM ended up at much better schools with B averages from the less rigorous classes - places like Cornell, U Chicago, Williams/Amherst etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

Ugh all that money at NCS with that reputation for College Park?

Would you be saying "Ugh" if it were a full academic scholarship to the University College?

[Anonymous]

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

Ugh all that money at NCS with that reputation for College Park?

Would you be saying "Ugh" if it were a full academic scholarship to the University College?

I totally would have said "ugh" when my children were younger but now that we have a junior, UMD isn't looking so bad. He has been in independent schools since pre-k, along with his two siblings, so we've paid a lot of tuition over the years. While by any measure, we could afford it, I'm kind of tired of paying. UMD is a great bargain especially for math and science. DS is not going to MIT but the other schools that he is looking at are very expensive and probably won't provide the return on investment that UMD does. It isn't all about a return on investment, but I think that DS has had a very privileged life and a state school would be a great counterpoint to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former NCS parent here and I can't stress the importance of weighing the rigor of the curriculum your daughter selects. My daughter was a B student with great standardized test scores, was right below the NMSF cut off and did great on SATs and ACTs. She took the very rigorous courses - AP Chem in 11th, AP Physics C in 12th, honors math 9-11 and AP BC in 12th (did not get to HLAVC), AP US and AP Language in 11th grade etc. She ended up at Notre Dame with other acceptances at great places like Haverford, William & Mary etc. Her peers who took "easier" APs like AP Statistics, AP Bio, AP and less rigorous courses in general - art over engineering, regular math etc. ended up at places like Virginia Tech, Syracuse, UM College Park.

Ugh all that money at NCS with that reputation for College Park?

Would you be saying "Ugh" if it were a full academic scholarship to the University College?

I totally would have said "ugh" when my children were younger but now that we have a junior, UMD isn't looking so bad. He has been in independent schools since pre-k, along with his two siblings, so we've paid a lot of tuition over the years. While by any measure, we could afford it, I'm kind of tired of paying. UMD is a great bargain especially for math and science. DS is not going to MIT but the other schools that he is looking at are very expensive and probably won't provide the return on investment that UMD does. It isn't all about a return on investment, but I think that DS has had a very privileged life and a state school would be a great counterpoint to that.

PP you took the words right out of my mouth! DD is a junior and has spend her entire career in great , but expensive, privates. She has loved every minute and will come away with knowledge, confidence and conviction which is why we chose this path. Can we afford a more expensive college option? Yes, we can. She is drawn to UMD for many reasons and I think the fact that it's the opposite of the privileged life she's had is one reason. If she gets into the honors program I would be thrilled to send her to Maryland and I think she would have a great experience too. I would never have said that even two year ago but she's my oldest and I had no idea how strong UMCP was until we looked.