New Budget Recommendations -- eliminate AAP busing and centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is not need to "get mad". You clearly have a child in an AAP center that gets bussed and you don't want that to change. That's a pretty normal thought process but the school system has to think of all kids, not just yours.

What you want is not want is best for the entire school system, period. While AAP centers and bussing have been great perks, when there needs to be a budget realignment perks get put on the chopping block.

You are missing PP's point. Perhaps, to you, busing is a 'perk,' but for many families it is the only way that their kids can obtain the services that they need. There are some kids, the top 5% maybe, who really need these services. The people hurt by these cuts are those who can't afford to drive their kids around. So now you're basically just saying that Centers themselves are a 'perk,' or that they're a 'perk' that should only be supplied to wealthy families in FCPS.

I agree with others who say the AAP is bloated, but that's all the more reason to protect the Centers, IMHO. The kids who need AAP really need it. It shouldn't be a program for kinda smart kids with pushy parents. Stop over-identifying the # of kids for this program, and shrink it overall... but don't throw out the whole program. Centers are the basis of the program. Don't make hasty cuts that have long-reaching consequences.

Again, I'm willing to believe this for students in some of the less affluent neighborhoods in FCPS. Otherwise, LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in a center, but would have kept him in his base school if all the other super smart kids hadn't been siphoned off to be bused to a school across town. The center model was for a much smaller and less busy county during a simpler time. When most of the folks moving here move to VA with intentions of "getting their kids into AAP" you know the programs time has passed.

[Anonymous]

Middle schools usually have more AAP students. Many elementary schools have only a few AAP quailifed students. It is wired that the Recommendatino did not mention to eleminate busess to middle school AAP centers but only mention to elemenary school AAP centers. Why do not they start from eliminating busses to middle school centers? This can save money with little negative side effects?

[Anonymous]

Again, I'm willing to believe this for students in some of the less affluent neighborhoods in FCPS. Otherwise, LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in a center, but would have kept him in his base school if all the other super smart kids hadn't been siphoned off to be bused to a school across town. The center model was for a much smaller and less busy county during a simpler time. When most of the folks moving here move to VA with intentions of "getting their kids into AAP" you know the programs time has passed.

Such statements always make me want to punch the computer screen. I'd love to see a map of what you consider the less affluent neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way our local elementary used to do it (not sure if they're still doing it this way) was that the grade was grouped into three teams of two classes each. The kids who were in the level IV pull out group were on the same team. The classes were combined and then separated into ability groupings for each subject. With two teachers, they could change the groupings around throughout the day. This class was also the one that would be assigned a student teacher at times, so that could add a third grouping. In addition, the AART would work separately once a week or so with a group of seven or eight kids for language arts.

Team teaching can give schools a lot of flexibility and works well for differentiation. Adding in resource specialists allows further small groupings to give kids what they need.

Many schools don't have 6 classes per grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is not need to "get mad". You clearly have a child in an AAP center that gets bussed and you don't want that to change. That's a pretty normal thought process but the school system has to think of all kids, not just yours.

What you want is not want is best for the entire school system, period. While AAP centers and bussing have been great perks, when there needs to be a budget realignment perks get put on the chopping block.

You are missing PP's point. Perhaps, to you, busing is a 'perk,' but for many families it is the only way that their kids can obtain the services that they need. There are some kids, the top 5% maybe, who really need these services. The people hurt by these cuts are those who can't afford to drive their kids around. So now you're basically just saying that Centers themselves are a 'perk,' or that they're a 'perk' that should only be supplied to wealthy families in FCPS.

I agree with others who say the AAP is bloated, but that's all the more reason to protect the Centers, IMHO. The kids who need AAP really need it. It shouldn't be a program for kinda smart kids with pushy parents. Stop over-identifying the # of kids for this program, and shrink it overall... but don't throw out the whole program. Centers are the basis of the program. Don't make hasty cuts that have long-reaching consequences.

If a school has enough kids to create a whole AAP classroom, why is a center better? Aren't 25 level IV kids plus a few Level III kids enough peers in common?

Heck 5 level IV kids plus 20 Level III kids are enough peers in common

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP Centers are not a 'perk.' They are the core of the AAP. They are not right for everyone, so FCPS has LLIV, to expand the benefits of the AAP to other populations.... but why are we now saying we need a "one size fits all" approach where everybody sits at their base school and accepts whatever LLIV means at that school? That's a sure recipe for taking a school system that seemed to actually meet each child where he/she is, and turning it into a factory.

A fair and appropriate education isn't a 'perk.'

You can get a fair and appropriate education at your base school with the AAP curriculum, the same curriculum you have at your center. A center is indeed a perk.

[Anonymous]

Say goodbye to centers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would have thought the folks on this board would be very, very upset about these recommendations. I certainly am. Now is the time to write letters to Dr. Garza & the School Board mentioning how important the AAP is to our kids, so they know parents support this program. No, it's not perfect by a long shot, but look at the recommendations, and their consequences: (1) cut busing to AAP where there's LLIV -- this hurts working families who can't provide their own transportation, and keeps everybody at their local schools regardless of whether that's best for the child. Stop pretending LLIV is the same as a Center. It's not. Even in wealthier areas, no elementary school has the kind of "critical mass" that Centers have. It's not the same. Perhaps the middle schools in our wealthier areas have "critical mass," but at the elementary level it's just not the case. More to the point, who's hurt by this? The very population who have historically been underrepresented in AAP -- kids from less privileged backgrounds. Rich moms & dads will find a way to get their kid to the Center if their kid needs it. It's the rest of the families who will be screwed. (2) have LLIV everywhere, no centers. That would honestly not be an AAP. The whole philosophy behind FCPS' current AAP is to gather together similar kids so they can support one another. It's the right approach, and it's been used as a model elsewhere; FCPS just did a study on our AAP in 2013, so they know this. Eliminating LLIV is just leaving kids where they are and pretending that we're providing services for them.

As other posters have mentioned, the so-called savings from either of these proposals don't even make sense. You've got to bus kids SOMEWHERE in elementary school... does it make sense that there are massive savings when you shift that bus from one school to another? This screws up all the capital planning the Board has done for years and likely means more trailers.... is that in the "savings?" If you have LLIV everywhere, don't we need more teachers to immediately be trained to educate AAP kids? Isn't that expensive?

Get mad, guys.

bahahahahahahahahahaahaahahahah

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is not need to "get mad". You clearly have a child in an AAP center that gets bussed and you don't want that to change. That's a pretty normal thought process but the school system has to think of all kids, not just yours.

What you want is not want is best for the entire school system, period. While AAP centers and bussing have been great perks, when there needs to be a budget realignment perks get put on the chopping block.

You are missing PP's point. Perhaps, to you, busing is a 'perk,' but for many families it is the only way that their kids can obtain the services that they need. There are some kids, the top 5% maybe, who really need these services. The people hurt by these cuts are those who can't afford to drive their kids around. So now you're basically just saying that Centers themselves are a 'perk,' or that they're a 'perk' that should only be supplied to wealthy families in FCPS.

I agree with others who say the AAP is bloated, but that's all the more reason to protect the Centers, IMHO. The kids who need AAP really need it. It shouldn't be a program for kinda smart kids with pushy parents. Stop over-identifying the # of kids for this program, and shrink it overall... but don't throw out the whole program. Centers are the basis of the program. Don't make hasty cuts that have long-reaching consequences.

If a school has enough kids to create a whole AAP classroom, why is a center better? Aren't 25 level IV kids plus a few Level III kids enough peers in common?

Heck 5 level IV kids plus 20 Level III kids are enough peers in common

My DD has one other Level IV kid and one Level III kid in her grade. Do the three of them get promoted a grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way our local elementary used to do it (not sure if they're still doing it this way) was that the grade was grouped into three teams of two classes each. The kids who were in the level IV pull out group were on the same team. The classes were combined and then separated into ability groupings for each subject. With two teachers, they could change the groupings around throughout the day. This class was also the one that would be assigned a student teacher at times, so that could add a third grouping. In addition, the AART would work separately once a week or so with a group of seven or eight kids for language arts.

Team teaching can give schools a lot of flexibility and works well for differentiation. Adding in resource specialists allows further small groupings to give kids what they need.

Many schools don't have 6 classes per grade.

How many classes per grade do most of the schools here have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Again, I'm willing to believe this for students in some of the less affluent neighborhoods in FCPS. Otherwise, LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in a center, but would have kept him in his base school if all the other super smart kids hadn't been siphoned off to be bused to a school across town. The center model was for a much smaller and less busy county during a simpler time. When most of the folks moving here move to VA with intentions of "getting their kids into AAP" you know the programs time has passed.

Such statements always make me want to punch the computer screen. I'd love to see a map of what you consider the less affluent neighborhoods.

Certainly not McLean, Vienna, Great Falls or Falls Church. Anywhere people have made a destination to move to get their above average achievement-oriented kids into AAP because they're afraid they'd be bored in Gen Ed. Talk about something that makes a person want to punch a screen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again, I'm willing to believe this for students in some of the less affluent neighborhoods in FCPS. Otherwise, LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in a center, but would have kept him in his base school if all the other super smart kids hadn't been siphoned off to be bused to a school across town. The center model was for a much smaller and less busy county during a simpler time. When most of the folks moving here move to VA with intentions of "getting their kids into AAP" you know the programs time has passed.

Such statements always make me want to punch the computer screen. I'd love to see a map of what you consider the less affluent neighborhoods.

Certainly not McLean, Vienna, Great Falls or Falls Church. Anywhere people have made a destination to move to get their above average achievement-oriented kids into AAP because they're afraid they'd be bored in Gen Ed. Talk about something that makes a person want to punch a screen!

Disagree about the part of Falls Church in Mason District. Agree with the other areas, though.

[Anonymous]

Actually...I think a LOT of you here would be sadly and surprisingly disappointed if fcps moved wll the center kids back to their base schools and switched to LLIV with principal placement to fill out the class. You are working under the assumption that of course MY kid will now get these services and be the one placed in the LLIV class, but when that does not happen imagine the uproar.

If they only need a handful or even a few more kids, it is just not possible that all of the currently "top" performers will remain at the top or even get placed in the class as a filler.

Smaller centere make the most sense, except for the few regions that send scores of kids to AAP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is not need to "get mad". You clearly have a child in an AAP center that gets bussed and you don't want that to change. That's a pretty normal thought process but the school system has to think of all kids, not just yours.

What you want is not want is best for the entire school system, period. While AAP centers and bussing have been great perks, when there needs to be a budget realignment perks get put on the chopping block.

You are missing PP's point. Perhaps, to you, busing is a 'perk,' but for many families it is the only way that their kids can obtain the services that they need. There are some kids, the top 5% maybe, who really need these services. The people hurt by these cuts are those who can't afford to drive their kids around. So now you're basically just saying that Centers themselves are a 'perk,' or that they're a 'perk' that should only be supplied to wealthy families in FCPS.

I agree with others who say the AAP is bloated, but that's all the more reason to protect the Centers, IMHO. The kids who need AAP really need it. It shouldn't be a program for kinda smart kids with pushy parents. Stop over-identifying the # of kids for this program, and shrink it overall... but don't throw out the whole program. Centers are the basis of the program. Don't make hasty cuts that have long-reaching consequences.

If a school has enough kids to create a whole AAP classroom, why is a center better? Aren't 25 level IV kids plus a few Level III kids enough peers in common?

Heck 5 level IV kids plus 20 Level III kids are enough peers in common

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again, I'm willing to believe this for students in some of the less affluent neighborhoods in FCPS. Otherwise, LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in a center, but would have kept him in his base school if all the other super smart kids hadn't been siphoned off to be bused to a school across town. The center model was for a much smaller and less busy county during a simpler time. When most of the folks moving here move to VA with intentions of "getting their kids into AAP" you know the programs time has passed.

Such statements always make me want to punch the computer screen. I'd love to see a map of what you consider the less affluent neighborhoods.

Certainly not McLean, Vienna, Great Falls or Falls Church. Anywhere people have made a destination to move to get their above average achievement-oriented kids into AAP because they're afraid they'd be bored in Gen Ed. Talk about something that makes a person want to punch a screen!

That would of course leave huge swaths of Fairfax in the other column. I think PP's conclusion that "LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS" presumes much. Our central Fairfax neighborhood is blissfully middle class but does not send enough kids to center to support a full class back at base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again, I'm willing to believe this for students in some of the less affluent neighborhoods in FCPS. Otherwise, LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS. And I say that as a parent who had a kid in a center, but would have kept him in his base school if all the other super smart kids hadn't been siphoned off to be bused to a school across town. The center model was for a much smaller and less busy county during a simpler time. When most of the folks moving here move to VA with intentions of "getting their kids into AAP" you know the programs time has passed.

Such statements always make me want to punch the computer screen. I'd love to see a map of what you consider the less affluent neighborhoods.

Certainly not McLean, Vienna, Great Falls or Falls Church. Anywhere people have made a destination to move to get their above average achievement-oriented kids into AAP because they're afraid they'd be bored in Gen Ed. Talk about something that makes a person want to punch a screen!

That would of course leave huge swaths of Fairfax in the other column. I think PP's conclusion that "LLIV is enough to fill the needs of most kids in FCPS" presumes much. Our central Fairfax neighborhood is blissfully middle class but does not send enough kids to center to support a full class back at base.

That's probably only because parents are not as pushy as they are in some other areas. It would be shocking if you couldn't find a full class of "advanced" kids in most neighborhoods with the exception of some schools on route 1 and in Annandale.