Best Private School Sports for College Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

There are, indeed. no scholarships to the Ivies.

But recruiting by Ivies for the marquis sports is very aggressive.

The Ivy League has a whole system set up --- The Academic Index --- to regulate the effort.

And the FA given by Ivies is 100% in the form of grants and not loans or work study arrangements. So for all practical purposes these are scholarships.

Only if your family qualifies for financial aid. If you can afford to pay full tuition to one of the top DC privates for 2 kids, you are not going to qualify for financial aid. Your typical DCUM "middle class" family with HHI of $200k with one kid in college is not going to receive any aid from Princeton. So being an elite athlete might boost admission chances, but won't make attending an Ivy any more affordable. Same goes for division 3 schools (eg NESCAC).

This is not true about endowment scholarships they are not bound by the same rules as "Princeton" scholarships. Athletes (and many other students who don't qualify for FA) are given these types of scholarships, they are not financial aid.

Can you provide proof of this assertion?

google "endowment scholarships to Princeton" then you look at the requirements. Some say you have to be financially needy... some say you have to be left handed Italians that want to study Italian, some say you have to play football.

The endowment scholarships allow Princeton et al to provide generous need-based aid to athletes. But you must first qualify as a student with "need." Generous endowments have allowed ivy league schools to raise the cut off for need quite high and to fully cover students' need with grants not loans. But there is still a cap on the HHI that meets the definition of needy. Families with one kid in college and HHI above ~$180k are not going to qualify as needy at an Ivy, no matter how fabulous an athlete their child is.

That is only true if the endowment scholarship is managed by Princeton it is not true if it is managed by a trustee (or board of trustees).

[Anonymous]

One thing seems certain from these discussions: the benefits from playing a "boutique" sport is the "Ivy" college admission "bump" (hook) plus or minus enhanced financial aid. Sure sounds like a "win-win" outcome even the average athlete may benefit from. This "hook" is specific to only certain "categories" of schools. Categories of "ivy" colleges pursued by the rich, the private, the ambitious, and those pursuing the life-long alumni networks. This preferential admission "bump"/hook is "affirmative action" for a longstanding admission stream of particular students to these"ivy" universities and colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I went to an Ivy.

Maybe things have changed since I went- but A LOT of athletes were paying A LOT less tuition than non-athletes- regardless of their parents' income.

Some would openly argue it makes sound and wise fiscal/financial sense to groom your child to take a roster spot on one of these schools' boutique sporting teams. And if you start early enough, so a child has up to 7 years of sport-specific experience prior to entering college, athleticism is not an absolute requirement or prerequisite.

Yes, yes, you're hilarious. We get it. You are poking fun at the sports pretensions of the sweaty masses. Doing the same thing every 5 posts is not that clever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was an athletic recruit at Princeton and paid full freight. If there was some way around that no one told me. But everything had gotten crazier so maybe this has changed.

I was also an athletic recruit to Princeton from a middle class family, and received no FA. I was able attend Princeton only because of a full tuition ROTC scholarship which required an 8 year military service committment. I sure wish I had received one of these mysterious athletic scholarships that PP's say are readily available.....

That is a perfect example of a scholarship that is not FA. Not mysterious... is there a UMD grad who can show this Princeton grad how to google?

I assume this poster is not trying to deliberately mislead people. Going on that assumption, here's where the confusion may arise.

The Ivy League does NOT give athletic scholarships, nor do they award merit scholarships. They fund financial aid out of endowment. The Ivies, as is the case with most schools, encourage donors to give to the unrestricted operating fund or, at most, to earmark donations for financial aid generally. In the past (and perhaps still if the size of the gift is big enough), donors would earmark their gifts so that it could go to fund a specific type of student -- say, an athlete or musician or student at the Woodrow Wilson School. If you receive money from an endowed fund as part of your Financial Aid package, if the donors are still alive you might well receive a notation that part of your aid was from the "Jones Family Student Athlete Scholar Fund." HOWEVER, it's really just accounting. You can't receive money from such an endowed fund unless you qualify for Financial Aid, and it replaces the unrestricted grant you would otherwise get. Money is fungible. If nobody qualifies for the fund, the money rolls over for another day.

[Anonymous]

Why would Princeton, or any college, care how good their water polo team or fencing team is? I don't get it. (I understand football, but these tiny teams that I can't imagine have much of a crowd... who the heck cares?) Wouldn't they rather be recruiting the most brilliant high school computer scientists or entrepreneurs or writers, kids who actually might make an impact on the world? Or maybe they are recruiting those kids as juniors, and I just haven't heard about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would Princeton, or any college, care how good their water polo team or fencing team is? I don't get it. (I understand football, but these tiny teams that I can't imagine have much of a crowd... who the heck cares?) Wouldn't they rather be recruiting the most brilliant high school computer scientists or entrepreneurs or writers, kids who actually might make an impact on the world? Or maybe they are recruiting those kids as juniors, and I just haven't heard about it.

1. They do care much more about spectator sports. But once those are in the mix there is some equity at stake.
2. Classical tradition of healthy mind/body
3. The former athletes give and raise money at higher rates
4. Current university model in U.S. includes watching/playing sports -- hard to break from that given strong feelings of alumni base and expectations of current students
5. Students in these "minor" sports often highly accomplished students too -- athletics is tie-breaker over other applicants with same academic profile
6. Even with 1 - 5, Ivies still ponder your issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was an athletic recruit at Princeton and paid full freight. If there was some way around that no one told me. But everything had gotten crazier so maybe this has changed.

I was also an athletic recruit to Princeton from a middle class family, and received no FA. I was able attend Princeton only because of a full tuition ROTC scholarship which required an 8 year military service committment. I sure wish I had received one of these mysterious athletic scholarships that PP's say are readily available.....

That is a perfect example of a scholarship that is not FA. Not mysterious... is there a UMD grad who can show this Princeton grad how to google?

Are you really that clueless? The funding for an ROTC scholarships does not come from the college or university -- it is paid by the Air Force, Army or Navy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

There are, indeed. no scholarships to the Ivies.

But recruiting by Ivies for the marquis sports is very aggressive.

The Ivy League has a whole system set up --- The Academic Index --- to regulate the effort.

And the FA given by Ivies is 100% in the form of grants and not loans or work study arrangements. So for all practical purposes these are scholarships.

Only if your family qualifies for financial aid. If you can afford to pay full tuition to one of the top DC privates for 2 kids, you are not going to qualify for financial aid. Your typical DCUM "middle class" family with HHI of $200k with one kid in college is not going to receive any aid from Princeton. So being an elite athlete might boost admission chances, but won't make attending an Ivy any more affordable. Same goes for division 3 schools (eg NESCAC).

This is not true about endowment scholarships they are not bound by the same rules as "Princeton" scholarships. Athletes (and many other students who don't qualify for FA) are given these types of scholarships, they are not financial aid.

Can you provide proof of this assertion?

I can't speak of colleges but I have a very well regarded local private who has been attempting to recruit my DC based on athletics. We are not qualified for FA, but DC has top academics and a top travel athlete. I flat out told them that I couldn't even consider them because of cost and because we wouldn't qualify for aid. I was told not to worry about the cost, they had special endowment for students like mine and the application process would be easy for us. We did not apply because they were not offering more than what DC was going to be expected to deliver. We prefer to be in a situation we 'd have more leverage

[Anonymous]

Yes, yes, you're hilarious. We get it. You are poking fun at the sports pretensions of the sweaty masses. Doing the same thing every 5 posts is not that clever.

Yes, yes, embarrassed some.

[Anonymous]

Why would Princeton, or any college, care how good their water polo team or fencing team is? I don't get it. (I understand football, but these tiny teams that I can't imagine have much of a crowd... who the heck cares?) Wouldn't they rather be recruiting the most brilliant high school computer scientists or entrepreneurs or writers, kids who actually might make an impact on the world? Or maybe they are recruiting those kids as juniors, and I just haven't heard about it.

Podunk U doesn't care. That's why they don't even have a water polo team. The teams that do care play one another in water polo! By the way, they are the same types of colleges that care about their Classics department and have degree programs in Latin and Greek!!

By analogy, if you study certain subjects in middle and high school you also gain an admission bump/hook to "Ivy" colleges and universities that have to sustain their Classic Department teachers/professors much as they support their golf, sailing, squash, rowing, lacrosse, water polo and swimming teams.

[Anonymous]

Oh boy, can't wait for the next Trumpism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was an athletic recruit at Princeton and paid full freight. If there was some way around that no one told me. But everything had gotten crazier so maybe this has changed.

I was also an athletic recruit to Princeton from a middle class family, and received no FA. I was able attend Princeton only because of a full tuition ROTC scholarship which required an 8 year military service committment. I sure wish I had received one of these mysterious athletic scholarships that PP's say are readily available.....

That is a perfect example of a scholarship that is not FA. Not mysterious... is there a UMD grad who can show this Princeton grad how to google?

Are you really that clueless? The funding for an ROTC scholarships does not come from the college or university -- it is paid by the Air Force, Army or Navy.

Are you really that clueless? The funding for some endowment scholarships (just like ROTC) do not come from the college or university... it is paid for by a private benefactor and managed by trustees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was an athletic recruit at Princeton and paid full freight. If there was some way around that no one told me. But everything had gotten crazier so maybe this has changed.

I was also an athletic recruit to Princeton from a middle class family, and received no FA. I was able attend Princeton only because of a full tuition ROTC scholarship which required an 8 year military service committment. I sure wish I had received one of these mysterious athletic scholarships that PP's say are readily available.....

That is a perfect example of a scholarship that is not FA. Not mysterious... is there a UMD grad who can show this Princeton grad how to google?

I assume this poster is not trying to deliberately mislead people. Going on that assumption, here's where the confusion may arise.

The Ivy League does NOT give athletic scholarships, nor do they award merit scholarships. They fund financial aid out of endowment. The Ivies, as is the case with most schools, encourage donors to give to the unrestricted operating fund or, at most, to earmark donations for financial aid generally. In the past (and perhaps still if the size of the gift is big enough), donors would earmark their gifts so that it could go to fund a specific type of student -- say, an athlete or musician or student at the Woodrow Wilson School. If you receive money from an endowed fund as part of your Financial Aid package, if the donors are still alive you might well receive a notation that part of your aid was from the "Jones Family Student Athlete Scholar Fund." HOWEVER, it's really just accounting. You can't receive money from such an endowed fund unless you qualify for Financial Aid, and it replaces the unrestricted grant you would otherwise get. Money is fungible. If nobody qualifies for the fund, the money rolls over for another day.

EXACTLY. And I will say it again: if you make $200k and have one kid in college YOU ARE GETTING NO AID OF ANY KIND FROM AN IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was an athletic recruit at Princeton and paid full freight. If there was some way around that no one told me. But everything had gotten crazier so maybe this has changed.

I was also an athletic recruit to Princeton from a middle class family, and received no FA. I was able attend Princeton only because of a full tuition ROTC scholarship which required an 8 year military service committment. I sure wish I had received one of these mysterious athletic scholarships that PP's say are readily available.....

That is a perfect example of a scholarship that is not FA. Not mysterious... is there a UMD grad who can show this Princeton grad how to google?

Are you really that clueless? The funding for an ROTC scholarships does not come from the college or university -- it is paid by the Air Force, Army or Navy.

And, hello, it's not a gift without strings, either. Recipients serve in the military after graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin's daughter got into Princeton on a fencing scholarship. I plan on signing my 5 year old up this fall.

There are no athletic scholarships to Princeton. Maybe you meant to say she got into Princeton and was a a very good fencer. So fencing may have helped her in admissions.

There are, indeed. no scholarships to the Ivies.

But recruiting by Ivies for the marquis sports is very aggressive.

The Ivy League has a whole system set up --- The Academic Index --- to regulate the effort.

And the FA given by Ivies is 100% in the form of grants and not loans or work study arrangements. So for all practical purposes these are scholarships.

Only if your family qualifies for financial aid. If you can afford to pay full tuition to one of the top DC privates for 2 kids, you are not going to qualify for financial aid. Your typical DCUM "middle class" family with HHI of $200k with one kid in college is not going to receive any aid from Princeton. So being an elite athlete might boost admission chances, but won't make attending an Ivy any more affordable. Same goes for division 3 schools (eg NESCAC).

This is not true about endowment scholarships they are not bound by the same rules as "Princeton" scholarships. Athletes (and many other students who don't qualify for FA) are given these types of scholarships, they are not financial aid.

Can you provide proof of this assertion?

I can't speak of colleges but I have a very well regarded local private who has been attempting to recruit my DC based on athletics. We are not qualified for FA, but DC has top academics and a top travel athlete. I flat out told them that I couldn't even consider them because of cost and because we wouldn't qualify for aid. I was told not to worry about the cost, they had special endowment for students like mine and the application process would be easy for us. We did not apply because they were not offering more than what DC was going to be expected to deliver. We prefer to be in a situation we 'd have more leverage

There are plenty of "well-regarded" private colleges that DO give athletic scholarships. Georgetown. Duke. Notre Dame. Vanderbilt. Rice. Stanford. None of them are in the Ivy League, however, because the Ivy League does not give athletic scholarships. Nor do any well-regarded Division III schools (e.g., Swarthmore, Haverford, etc), because Div. III schools cannot give athletic scholarships.