s/o Cyclists in Rock Creek Park vs Pedestrians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would feel terrible running into a kid. I do go more slowly around out of control kids (and out of control dogs) That does not make it any less irresponsible and rude to take an out of control kid onto the OD.

Even if you observe other people's behavior, as you should, you really don't get to decide who is allowed to use the trail and who is "rude". Taking the attitude that someone else doesn't belong on the trail may interfere with your own ability to behave responsibly by clouding your judgment with anger.

I absolutely do get to decide what behavior is rude based on my observation. Of course I don't get to decide who is allowed to use the trail - NVRPA and the jurisdictions WOD passes through do that, and I do not expect success in getting them to remove someone for letting their kid wander dangerously across the trail in violation of its rules, just as they do not remove cyclists who race at 25MPH or who do thread the needle passes.

Anger is a normal human emotion and is quite reasonable when faced with rudeness and stupidity. Acknowledging it is not dangerous, suppressing it is.

But more important is giving information. In this case that everyone, from little 3YO tommy, to all the other users of the trail, is much better off if Tommy's parents take Tommy to a quiet place to learn to ride and not put Tommy in danger on the WOD. And that if Tommys parents think cyclists should dismount their bike and walk because they want to ride with little Tommy on the trail, rather than take him somewhere appropriate, they are jerks.

If and when some jerk fred zooming down the trail at 25MPH, too fast but in the appropriate lane, kills little Tommy, it will be quite as much the parents fault as the jerk cyclist's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Taking the attitude that someone else doesn't belong on the trail may interfere with your own ability to behave responsibly by clouding your judgment with anger.

That does not alter the fact that what you are doing is irresponsible, rude and that there are better places to teach your kid to ride.

Do you always go around doing whatever jerk thing you like, and then preaching at people when the get angry at you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would feel terrible running into a kid. I do go more slowly around out of control kids (and out of control dogs) That does not make it any less irresponsible and rude to take an out of control kid onto the OD.

Even if you observe other people's behavior, as you should, you really don't get to decide who is allowed to use the trail and who is "rude". Taking the attitude that someone else doesn't belong on the trail may interfere with your own ability to behave responsibly by clouding your judgment with anger.

So you are okay with cars driving up the trail?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Slow traffic to right." and "Don't dart out in front of someone."

I agree with your husband. He also has a cyclist's and runner's perspective.

So essentially what you are saying is that young children should not be in the parks, since they can't be trusted to not "dart out".

This is where it began I take it - an entitled parent who thinks that saying "you need to follow the rules" means "my kid should not be in the parks"

If your kid darts out in front they do not belong on the W&OD, no matter how much lawyerly skills you apply to justify it and blame other people who are obeying the rules, and using the trail as it was intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Slow traffic to right." and "Don't dart out in front of someone."

I agree with your husband. He also has a cyclist's and runner's perspective.

So essentially what you are saying is that young children should not be in the parks, since they can't be trusted to not "dart out".

This is where it began I take it - an entitled parent who thinks that saying "you need to follow the rules" means "my kid should not be in the parks"

If your kid darts out in front they do not belong on the W&OD, no matter how much lawyerly skills you apply to justify it and blame other people who are obeying the rules, and using the trail as it was intended.

+1. Tons of parks and trails, few are huge like the W&OD. I guarantee you that bicyclists aren't on the mulch in your child's parks.

It's dangerous for toddlers to be there. Even just for runners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a crazy bicyclist (nor am I fast), but 3 year olds on bikes with training wheels are the worst on the bike trails. They just aren't safe. I saw a collision two weeks ago with a toddler that ran into the wrong side of the W&OD. The toddler wasn't hit, but the bicyclist was injured as he skidded off into a tree. And the toddler's mom couldn't do anything because there was a baby strapped to the back of her bike too. Gah.

Small children with training wheels do wobble all over the place, but with a bike you can always get off and walk it. There's no excuse for hitting a kid!

The cyclist mentioned by the PP did not hit the kid. The swerved off the trail and hit a tree.

I should not have to slow to walking speed, let alone dismount, when there is room to pass on the left side of the trail. If you cannot keep your 3YO on the correct side of the trail (that is part of learning to ride) then you need to find somewhere else to teach them to bike.

Odd that cyclists expect pedestrians, children, etc to get out of their way but get upset when people who drive vehicles say the same of cyclist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a crazy bicyclist (nor am I fast), but 3 year olds on bikes with training wheels are the worst on the bike trails. They just aren't safe. I saw a collision two weeks ago with a toddler that ran into the wrong side of the W&OD. The toddler wasn't hit, but the bicyclist was injured as he skidded off into a tree. And the toddler's mom couldn't do anything because there was a baby strapped to the back of her bike too. Gah.

Small children with training wheels do wobble all over the place, but with a bike you can always get off and walk it. There's no excuse for hitting a kid!

The cyclist mentioned by the PP did not hit the kid. The swerved off the trail and hit a tree.

I should not have to slow to walking speed, let alone dismount, when there is room to pass on the left side of the trail. If you cannot keep your 3YO on the correct side of the trail (that is part of learning to ride) then you need to find somewhere else to teach them to bike.

Odd that cyclists expect pedestrians, children, etc to get out of their way but get upset when people who drive vehicles say the same of cyclist.

What do you mean by "get out of the way"

I do not expect pedestrians to not be on the WOD. I expect them to behave predictably and allow me to pass them by going over the yellow line to their left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic.

When I am riding in the street, I have no objection to a driver passing me by crossing the yellow line to my left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic. If I were riding unpredictably, and weaving across the yellow line, and I were hit, it would be my fault, not the driver's.

I am not sure if you do not understand this and are stupid, or if you do get it and are trolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I do not expect pedestrians to not be on the WOD. I expect them to behave predictably and allow me to pass them by going over the yellow line to their left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic.

When I am riding in the street, I have no objection to a driver passing me by crossing the yellow line to my left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic. If I were riding unpredictably, and weaving across the yellow line, and I were hit, it would be my fault, not the driver's.

I am not sure if you do not understand this and are stupid, or if you do get it and are trolling.

More than one PP has explained things to you. Don't pretend not to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Slow traffic to right." and "Don't dart out in front of someone."

I agree with your husband. He also has a cyclist's and runner's perspective.

So essentially what you are saying is that young children should not be in the parks, since they can't be trusted to not "dart out".

This is where it began I take it - an entitled parent who thinks that saying "you need to follow the rules" means "my kid should not be in the parks"

If your kid darts out in front they do not belong on the W&OD, no matter how much lawyerly skills you apply to justify it and blame other people who are obeying the rules, and using the trail as it was intended.

+1. Tons of parks and trails, few are huge like the W&OD. I guarantee you that bicyclists aren't on the mulch in your child's parks.

It's dangerous for toddlers to be there. Even just for runners.

if the toddler can toddle predictably, staying in their lane, it should not be dangerous. Don't let the troll make this about banning toddlers. ANYONE of any age who simply cannot be predictable on the trail does not belong on it. This is about behavior, not age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I do not expect pedestrians to not be on the WOD. I expect them to behave predictably and allow me to pass them by going over the yellow line to their left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic.

When I am riding in the street, I have no objection to a driver passing me by crossing the yellow line to my left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic. If I were riding unpredictably, and weaving across the yellow line, and I were hit, it would be my fault, not the driver's.

I am not sure if you do not understand this and are stupid, or if you do get it and are trolling.

More than one PP has explained things to you. Don't pretend not to understand.

I not only understand, I just explained the entire situation above. Cyclists do not expect pedestrians to get out of the way. They just have expectations to be allowed to pass safely, which is the same right motorists get around cyclists (in both cases leaving enough space)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm a bicyclist, but I'm sick of spandex-clad lawyers speeding like they're in the friggin' Tour de France.

Amen.

Dressing like Greg LeMond does not give you the right of way. And if you're on a non-closed public road taking up an entire lane, you are not riding in a peloton. You're riding in a pack of jerks.

Oh, and we have someone here who actually does not understand the rules of the road (cyclists are allowed to take the lane, and it is often the safest way to ride) and resents not being able to drive fast, and is here trolling cyclists (and probably has never taken a toddler out on the W&OD but is making a false parallel)

[Anonymous]

Judging from this thread, there are definitely some dangerous bicyclists out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a crazy bicyclist (nor am I fast), but 3 year olds on bikes with training wheels are the worst on the bike trails. They just aren't safe. I saw a collision two weeks ago with a toddler that ran into the wrong side of the W&OD. The toddler wasn't hit, but the bicyclist was injured as he skidded off into a tree. And the toddler's mom couldn't do anything because there was a baby strapped to the back of her bike too. Gah.

Small children with training wheels do wobble all over the place, but with a bike you can always get off and walk it. There's no excuse for hitting a kid!

The cyclist mentioned by the PP did not hit the kid. The swerved off the trail and hit a tree.

I should not have to slow to walking speed, let alone dismount, when there is room to pass on the left side of the trail. If you cannot keep your 3YO on the correct side of the trail (that is part of learning to ride) then you need to find somewhere else to teach them to bike.

Odd that cyclists expect pedestrians, children, etc to get out of their way but get upset when people who drive vehicles say the same of cyclist.

What do you mean by "get out of the way"

I do not expect pedestrians to not be on the WOD. I expect them to behave predictably and allow me to pass them by going over the yellow line to their left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic.

When I am riding in the street, I have no objection to a driver passing me by crossing the yellow line to my left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic. If I were riding unpredictably, and weaving across the yellow line, and I were hit, it would be my fault, not the driver's.

I am not sure if you do not understand this and are stupid, or if you do get it and are trolling.

I've seen so much rude behavior from cyclists while driving. It seems you all expect to own the road along with park trails as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Judging from this thread, there are definitely some dangerous bicyclists out there.

There are some dangerous cyclists out there, but no one on this thread has been advocating dangerous behavior by cyclists. Noting that some pedestrians and some parents with children are doing dangerous and rude things (in violation of the trail rules and trail etiquette) does not make us dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a crazy bicyclist (nor am I fast), but 3 year olds on bikes with training wheels are the worst on the bike trails. They just aren't safe. I saw a collision two weeks ago with a toddler that ran into the wrong side of the W&OD. The toddler wasn't hit, but the bicyclist was injured as he skidded off into a tree. And the toddler's mom couldn't do anything because there was a baby strapped to the back of her bike too. Gah.

Small children with training wheels do wobble all over the place, but with a bike you can always get off and walk it. There's no excuse for hitting a kid!

The cyclist mentioned by the PP did not hit the kid. The swerved off the trail and hit a tree.

I should not have to slow to walking speed, let alone dismount, when there is room to pass on the left side of the trail. If you cannot keep your 3YO on the correct side of the trail (that is part of learning to ride) then you need to find somewhere else to teach them to bike.

Odd that cyclists expect pedestrians, children, etc to get out of their way but get upset when people who drive vehicles say the same of cyclist.

What do you mean by "get out of the way"

I do not expect pedestrians to not be on the WOD. I expect them to behave predictably and allow me to pass them by going over the yellow line to their left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic.

When I am riding in the street, I have no objection to a driver passing me by crossing the yellow line to my left, when there is visibility and no oncoming traffic. If I were riding unpredictably, and weaving across the yellow line, and I were hit, it would be my fault, not the driver's.

I am not sure if you do not understand this and are stupid, or if you do get it and are trolling.

I've seen so much rude behavior from cyclists while driving. It seems you all expect to own the road along with park trails as well.

I have made clear that there are specific behaviors I object to, and have not attacked anyone - drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, parents, toddlers - as a class.

That you are speaking of "you all" makes it appear you are one of the many anti cyclist trolls.

I do not expect to own either the roads or the trails as a cyclist (indeed, I walk on the trails, and drive on the roads) I do expect to get to use them in accordance with law, policy, and etiquette.

As for rude behavior, I have seen it from people in all modes. I have also seen violations of the law by people in all modes. Though the violations by motorists are the ones that frighten me the most.

This morning a jogger in Alexandria was killed by a hit and run driver. Maybe you should worry more about that.