Where do smart kids go who aren't overachievers?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Check out Miami University in Ohio.

Thanks. This is more what I was thinking. I will look into the other schools, but they seem small (perhaps I'm wrong?). But this is more the size of school I had in mind.

Miami of Ohio is an 18,000 student university, not a mid size LAC. Maybe it would be helpful to define your (or her) view of midsize?

This made me laugh. I went to huge state school, so I view 15,000 to 20,000 as mid-size! Anything under 5,000 students is very small to me.

OP here. I guess I was thinking a mid-size school would be anywhere from 5,000 - 15,000 or so. I definitely don't see her at a big university such as Penn State or University of Maryland as I think she would get lost. I think a school that is smaller than 5,000 wouldn't have the activities she was looking for (like theater), but that may be incorrect. Even though Pitt and Miami of Ohio are bigger, I am intrigued by those. But, ideally, I think a smaller school (smaller than those) might work better for her. Admittedly, the criteria is a little broad right now, but I don't want to overlook something as we evaluate our options at this point. Schools like Vassar or Brandeis sound intriguing, but it sounds like those may be more competitive to get into -- at least according to PPs. Schools like Elon seemed a little too small with only 1,500 or so students.

I wouldn't write off small colleges as not having strong theater programs. You really need to evaluate each one individually. Where have some of the theater kids from her school gone to college? They might be able to provide some good information.

Drew (FTE 2500ish) has one of the best Theater programs in the country. I am an unapologetic alum and totally fit your daughter's profile. Great faculty, great school, great programs. It -- like everywhere else -- is what you make of it. And Drew networking in DC is awesome because so many Drewids go into non-profit and political science.

Drew''s proximity to NYC is a real asset. It's long been the home of the NJ Shakespeare Festival, bringing many theater professionals from the city to campus. Additionally, it draws a number of major corporate employers who come to recruit Drew students. Drew is a 4-hour drive from the DC area and easy to get to by plane or train as well.

Agree, and would add Montclair for similar reasons.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon
Grinnell
Oberlin
Kenyon
De Paul (for theater)
Sarah Lawrence

Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon out of reach for student fitting this profile.

DC has a 3.6 GPA and very, very strong PSATs. These schools are definitely within reach. Some of these others suggestions - such as community college -- for this profile are just ridiculous. OP, don't be afraid to aim high.

OP described her child as having a 3.6 GPA without many AP courses. She also noted that her daughter doesn't hold a leadership position in any organizations. It's unlikely that high scores will compensate for these factors. So, I'd agree that Grinnell, Oberlin and Kenyon are real long-shots (and Carnegie-Mellon, which has an excellent theater program, even longer). That said, there are many other great schools along the selectivity spectrum. It's fine to aim high with a couple of reaches, but every student needs likelies and safeties to anchor their list.

I have had it up to HERE with leadership positions! Everyone is not a leader. Some of the most accomplished, talented students I know, actually, are too busy doing and creating things to want to deal with the hassle of holding meetings and managing their peers. Talented writers and artists, talented actors, talented athletes, talented techies can be high achieving without ever holding the title of president, editor or captain. So to say that someone's lack of a leadership position would hurt them is ridiculous. Imagine a college where everyone is a leader? What would that even be like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon
Grinnell
Oberlin
Kenyon
De Paul (for theater)
Sarah Lawrence

Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon out of reach for student fitting this profile.

DC has a 3.6 GPA and very, very strong PSATs. These schools are definitely within reach. Some of these others suggestions - such as community college -- for this profile are just ridiculous. OP, don't be afraid to aim high.

OP described her child as having a 3.6 GPA without many AP courses. She also noted that her daughter doesn't hold a leadership position in any organizations. It's unlikely that high scores will compensate for these factors. So, I'd agree that Grinnell, Oberlin and Kenyon are real long-shots (and Carnegie-Mellon, which has an excellent theater program, even longer). That said, there are many other great schools along the selectivity spectrum. It's fine to aim high with a couple of reaches, but every student needs likelies and safeties to anchor their list.

I have had it up to HERE with leadership positions! Everyone is not a leader. Some of the most accomplished, talented students I know, actually, are too busy doing and creating things to want to deal with the hassle of holding meetings and managing their peers. Talented writers and artists, talented actors, talented athletes, talented techies can be high achieving without ever holding the title of president, editor or captain. So to say that someone's lack of a leadership position would hurt them is ridiculous. Imagine a college where everyone is a leader? What would that even be like?

Agree 100%. This emphasis on "leadership positions" is such B.S. Even the old, "start a club at school so you can appoint yourself president" is so moronic. Don't admissions committees see right through this? I asked my son if he'd ever thought of running for office (class pres, VP, sec, treasurer, etc.) and he said that everyone knows kids who run for these positions are only doing it for the college resume. He said it's widely known that these "leadership positions" are pretty much a sham. Not to say there aren't kids who are born leaders and great in this role, but most just aren't but have been told over and over they must put something like that on their college apps. Agree with PP - most talented people don't have time for this kind of thing. They're busy doing and creating, and not interested in the busy work of rounding up all the doers and creators.

FWIW, my other son recently got into a very good college with no leadership activities. Go figure!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon
Grinnell
Oberlin
Kenyon
De Paul (for theater)
Sarah Lawrence

Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon out of reach for student fitting this profile.

DC has a 3.6 GPA and very, very strong PSATs. These schools are definitely within reach. Some of these others suggestions - such as community college -- for this profile are just ridiculous. OP, don't be afraid to aim high.

OP described her child as having a 3.6 GPA without many AP courses. She also noted that her daughter doesn't hold a leadership position in any organizations. It's unlikely that high scores will compensate for these factors. So, I'd agree that Grinnell, Oberlin and Kenyon are real long-shots (and Carnegie-Mellon, which has an excellent theater program, even longer). That said, there are many other great schools along the selectivity spectrum. It's fine to aim high with a couple of reaches, but every student needs likelies and safeties to anchor their list.

I have had it up to HERE with leadership positions! Everyone is not a leader. Some of the most accomplished, talented students I know, actually, are too busy doing and creating things to want to deal with the hassle of holding meetings and managing their peers. Talented writers and artists, talented actors, talented athletes, talented techies can be high achieving without ever holding the title of president, editor or captain. So to say that someone's lack of a leadership position would hurt them is ridiculous. Imagine a college where everyone is a leader? What would that even be like?

I'm the PP you quoted, and actually, I'm in agreement with you. But, as an alum interviewer, I've found that it's an uphill battle for applicants who don't hold a leadership position. Some of these students are extraordinarily talented, and I've heartily recommended them for admission, but I'm not the decider (to paraphrase our former fearless leader).

[Anonymous]

My son was the cadet commander of his JROTC unit, 3.99 GPA and 2470 SAT. He then did six years in the USMC, including two Iraq tours, where he was the platoon sergeant, so yes a real leader. When he applied to a few Ivies using his GI Bill, the alumni interviewers could not relate! He was so far above the average Ivy applicant in terms of leadership skills and like experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon
Grinnell
Oberlin
Kenyon
De Paul (for theater)
Sarah Lawrence

Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon out of reach for student fitting this profile.

DC has a 3.6 GPA and very, very strong PSATs. These schools are definitely within reach. Some of these others suggestions - such as community college -- for this profile are just ridiculous. OP, don't be afraid to aim high.

OP described her child as having a 3.6 GPA without many AP courses. She also noted that her daughter doesn't hold a leadership position in any organizations. It's unlikely that high scores will compensate for these factors. So, I'd agree that Grinnell, Oberlin and Kenyon are real long-shots (and Carnegie-Mellon, which has an excellent theater program, even longer). That said, there are many other great schools along the selectivity spectrum. It's fine to aim high with a couple of reaches, but every student needs likelies and safeties to anchor their list.

I have had it up to HERE with leadership positions! Everyone is not a leader. Some of the most accomplished, talented students I know, actually, are too busy doing and creating things to want to deal with the hassle of holding meetings and managing their peers. Talented writers and artists, talented actors, talented athletes, talented techies can be high achieving without ever holding the title of president, editor or captain. So to say that someone's lack of a leadership position would hurt them is ridiculous. Imagine a college where everyone is a leader? What would that even be like?

I'm the PP you quoted, and actually, I'm in agreement with you. But, as an alum interviewer, I've found that it's an uphill battle for applicants who don't hold a leadership position. Some of these students are extraordinarily talented, and I've heartily recommended them for admission, but I'm not the decider (to paraphrase our former fearless leader).

That's sad. I don't know what university you are an alum interviewer for, but would not want my kids attending a college where so much emphasis can be put on something that can be so easily faked. A few years back my kid, who's now in a great college, was the top performer in a very high visibility and award-winning club at his school. He was vice president by his sophomore year and could have walked into the presidency his senior year. Instead, he quit the club. When I asked him why, since being president would have seemingly been the natural progression and looked good on paper, he said because he hadn't learned anything new in a year and no longer found the competitions challenging. The club sponsor wanted him to start "mentoring" the underclass men, which to him seemed boring and like standing in place. He ended up using the time he would have spent in the club to learn and compete on his own. I had to respect him for caring more about the actual process of learning than what his position was. Not all kids fit the same mold, thank goodness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son was the cadet commander of his JROTC unit, 3.99 GPA and 2470 SAT. He then did six years in the USMC, including two Iraq tours, where he was the platoon sergeant, so yes a real leader. When he applied to a few Ivies using his GI Bill, the alumni interviewers could not relate! He was so far above the average Ivy applicant in terms of leadership skills and like experience.

The highest score you can get on the SAT is 2400. Your son must have been pretty amazing indeed to get 70 more points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon
Grinnell
Oberlin
Kenyon
De Paul (for theater)
Sarah Lawrence

Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon out of reach for student fitting this profile.

DC has a 3.6 GPA and very, very strong PSATs. These schools are definitely within reach. Some of these others suggestions - such as community college -- for this profile are just ridiculous. OP, don't be afraid to aim high.

OP described her child as having a 3.6 GPA without many AP courses. She also noted that her daughter doesn't hold a leadership position in any organizations. It's unlikely that high scores will compensate for these factors. So, I'd agree that Grinnell, Oberlin and Kenyon are real long-shots (and Carnegie-Mellon, which has an excellent theater program, even longer). That said, there are many other great schools along the selectivity spectrum. It's fine to aim high with a couple of reaches, but every student needs likelies and safeties to anchor their list.

I have had it up to HERE with leadership positions! Everyone is not a leader. Some of the most accomplished, talented students I know, actually, are too busy doing and creating things to want to deal with the hassle of holding meetings and managing their peers. Talented writers and artists, talented actors, talented athletes, talented techies can be high achieving without ever holding the title of president, editor or captain. So to say that someone's lack of a leadership position would hurt them is ridiculous. Imagine a college where everyone is a leader? What would that even be like?

I'm the PP you quoted, and actually, I'm in agreement with you. But, as an alum interviewer, I've found that it's an uphill battle for applicants who don't hold a leadership position. Some of these students are extraordinarily talented, and I've heartily recommended them for admission, but I'm not the decider (to paraphrase our former fearless leader).

That's sad. I don't know what university you are an alum interviewer for, but would not want my kids attending a college where so much emphasis can be put on something that can be so easily faked. A few years back my kid, who's now in a great college, was the top performer in a very high visibility and award-winning club at his school. He was vice president by his sophomore year and could have walked into the presidency his senior year. Instead, he quit the club. When I asked him why, since being president would have seemingly been the natural progression and looked good on paper, he said because he hadn't learned anything new in a year and no longer found the competitions challenging. The club sponsor wanted him to start "mentoring" the underclass men, which to him seemed boring and like standing in place. He ended up using the time he would have spent in the club to learn and compete on his own. I had to respect him for caring more about the actual process of learning than what his position was. Not all kids fit the same mold, thank goodness.

I'm the PP you quoted -- It's great that your son made a choice that reflected his interests, but it's also important to recognize that mentoring younger students can be a meaningful experience for someone with a knack for encouraging others and building community. My point in my earlier post was that a variety of experiences, talents, and temperaments should be valued in the admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon
Grinnell
Oberlin
Kenyon
De Paul (for theater)
Sarah Lawrence

Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon out of reach for student fitting this profile.

DC has a 3.6 GPA and very, very strong PSATs. These schools are definitely within reach. Some of these others suggestions - such as community college -- for this profile are just ridiculous. OP, don't be afraid to aim high.

OP described her child as having a 3.6 GPA without many AP courses. She also noted that her daughter doesn't hold a leadership position in any organizations. It's unlikely that high scores will compensate for these factors. So, I'd agree that Grinnell, Oberlin and Kenyon are real long-shots (and Carnegie-Mellon, which has an excellent theater program, even longer). That said, there are many other great schools along the selectivity spectrum. It's fine to aim high with a couple of reaches, but every student needs likelies and safeties to anchor their list.

I have had it up to HERE with leadership positions! Everyone is not a leader. Some of the most accomplished, talented students I know, actually, are too busy doing and creating things to want to deal with the hassle of holding meetings and managing their peers. Talented writers and artists, talented actors, talented athletes, talented techies can be high achieving without ever holding the title of president, editor or captain. So to say that someone's lack of a leadership position would hurt them is ridiculous. Imagine a college where everyone is a leader? What would that even be like?

I'm the PP you quoted, and actually, I'm in agreement with you. But, as an alum interviewer, I've found that it's an uphill battle for applicants who don't hold a leadership position. Some of these students are extraordinarily talented, and I've heartily recommended them for admission, but I'm not the decider (to paraphrase our former fearless leader).

Do they consider that many kids move before and during high school and that popularity plays a huge role in getting leadership positions? Is my DC out of luck because we moved to a cliquey area in 10th grade?