Pregnancy Discrimination at work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im not sure if I would have a case... but I have to put it out into the world what I am going through at work since I got pregnant.

My manager has known that we were doing IVF, and has been really friendly about it in the last year. So when he asked me if this cycle worked, even tho it was a little early to be announcing, I told him yes... as a friend. He was out of town for the rest of the week. The following week when he came back to work, the day before my first ultrasound, he came into my office to let me know that they had re-hired the female I had actually replaced a year and a half ago, to take my position back. They had planned to move me to another position... I was extremely upset by this. He listed many reasons, one of them being "dont you want to have a less stressful position now that you are pregnant?" and "did you think that you would still be able to handle these hours after having the baby?". I was extremely upset, but tried to be understanding. The next day, we found out that we are expecting twins.

Because my manager had already told my co-workers that I am pregnant, I felt no reason to hide the fact that its twins... especially because I have been so extremely sick. The following day, I was called into a meeting with my manager and the owner. The owner told me "congratulations on the twins!" which was mortifying because I really didnt plan on him specifically knowing so soon. He then told me that they would be changing me to yet another position, and that he would try to keep my pay the same, but I might not make exactly as much. He said that it was nothing personal, they appreciate all that I have done, but its a business decision. He then sent me to talk to the Comptroller of the company, who will be my new manager. I sat down in her office, and her first words were:

"well, I was really excited to have you over here, that is until I found out you went and got pregnant. I dont want to train you just so you can turn around and leave." I told her, that the new position was very new information, and I am just trying to figure out what is going on, but at this time I have no intentions of leaving.... thats when she responded with "Sure... excepts its TWINS, what the fuck are you going to do with twins? You expect to still work?" At that point I lost it. Trying to handle the shock of twins myself, along with my work suddenly falling apart, and everyone knowing about my pregnancy before I was ready... I lost it. To which she responded "Are you going to come in here and cry everytime I yell at you?" I just apologized and told her its still very early in my pregnancy, and asked to be excused. She said she would decide if I could have the position or not... and that was that.

Its been two weeks now, I am 9 weeks 2 days pregnant. I was supposed to change positions at the beginning of the month, and nothing has happened. They hired the girl to replace me literally the same day the first told me, so she has been here, and we have been stepping on one another's toes... meanwhile everyone in my office knows what is going on... and I am not even sure if I am going to have a pay check next month... I am really worried. I dont know if the owner knows what the comptroller said to me... and I dont want to tell him because if I end up working under her. I dont need the extra enemy... I am just at a loss. I have no idea what to expect next.

Thanks for reading.

I do not believe a word of your post. No company would engage in such egregious behavior and leave themselves wide open for a lawsuit and a huge settement. Instead, it sounds as though you are either a troll or trying out your concocted story to sue your employer.

+1

This was my reaction as well and I have worked in corporate environments for decades in various positions.

There is no way that these managers would open themselves up so blatantly to a lawsuit. You have a situation where OP's immediate manager, the owner of the company and the Controller have all allegedly made undiluted discriminatory comments that creates legal exposure. This is not to deny there is discrimination against pregnant women in the workplace but it is just not revealed in such an obvious manner.

Even smaller companies are informed in today's environment on what can and cannot be said to an employee because the risk of legal exposure is so great.

I don't know if OP is a troll but I seriously doubt her version of the meetings with different managers. As it now stands, unless OP has independent verification of the events, the managers will just deny they ever told her these things and it would be her version against theirs.

You are giving people wayyy too much credit for following the law and being able to watch what they say. Plus, sounds like this is a small company without a lot of sophisticated HR and legal support. And pregnancy discrimination is one area where people still feel totally justified in doing it.

[Anonymous]

In my friend's case (in which the company fired her within two weeks of finding out she was pregnant) they clearly were willing to take the risk that she wouldn't sue, and if she did they had decided the trade off was worth it. She sued and won. But I imagine this stuff happens all the time. Not sure why you are so incredulous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an employment attorney - used to do Plaintiff's work, now work at one of the agencies listed in prior posts (kind of don't want to out myself by saying more in that regard, but this type of fact pattern is what I do every day.)

First, I'm really sorry OP. This must be so stressful. The first piece of practical advice I can give you is that nothing is illegal until an adverse employment action is taken. The comments alone are not illegal, they just serve as evidence of a motive in the case that you are demoted/fired etc. If you stay in limbo like you are right now, it may be uncomfortable, but no law has been broken. PPs are right that documentation is important, but you're never going to get a statement like this in writing. If you want to be serious about protecting a possible claim you need to complain in writing and use the words "pregnancy discrimination." This is not the time to hedge or be polite. Anything less will be used by your employer later to show that you had a personality conflict and never even used the word discrimination.

Once you go down this path things could get worse. As an employment lawyer I always say (to myself and my friends) never sue your employer. It is so unpleasant and very very stressful. Honestly I would advise you to get out now. You're not showing yet, you will have time to interview and get in somewhere before it will be obvious. I know it's not ideal (and be aware that if you're counting on FMLA for maternity leave you won't qualify at a new job) but it sounds like a bad situation where you are. FYI DC Givernment employees get 8 paid weeks of maternity leave now. You may want to look there. To make things more complicated though, if you have any intention at all to sue do not quit. It is a death knell to your case basically.

I don't mean at all to sound callous - this must be really tough. But I also want you to understand that it's an uphill battle and can be very unpleasant. If you do want to take action, yes find a lawyer. Then go to the DC Office of Human Rights not the EEOC. They have mandatory mediation, which means the employer is obligated to participate. Your best hope is a new job and a small settlement for your troubles. As your case stands now, you probably won't win. There just isn't going to be any evidence.

Try David Cashdan for a legal consult.

And congrats on the twins! It will be OK!

As a former plaintiffs employment attorney myself I am uncomfortable with the detail of the advice you are giving here. OP needs to see a lawyer - they have already threatened to demote her and lower her salary, which are absolutely illegal acts. No reason to decide to settle for a "small" amount at this pont either. Typical damages could be much more than "small." Go with one of the more aggressive attorneys in town like Debra Katz.

I'm not advising her and I did tell her to get a lawyer. But I do want OP (stressed and pregnant with twins) to understand the realities of an employment discrimination lawsuit and to understand that just because she might have the makings of a case, it does not mean that she has to pursue it or that uncapped damages are just around the corner. Good luck OP. There are some great plaintiff's lawyers in town that will give you some great advice if you want to go that route. If Cashdan or Katz can't help you, they both have a whole network of colleagues they can connect you with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I do not believe a word of your post. No company would engage in such egregious behavior and leave themselves wide open for a lawsuit and a huge settement. Instead, it sounds as though you are either a troll or trying out your concocted story to sue your employer.

That is an odd thing to say. People do dumb (and illegal) things all the time. People who work for companies do dumb (and illegal) things all the time. If you live somewhere where everybody always follows all of the laws and never does anything dumb, please tell me where that is -- I might want to move there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do not believe a word of your post. No company would engage in such egregious behavior and leave themselves wide open for a lawsuit and a huge settement. Instead, it sounds as though you are either a troll or trying out your concocted story to sue your employer.

That is an odd thing to say. People do dumb (and illegal) things all the time. People who work for companies do dumb (and illegal) things all the time. If you live somewhere where everybody always follows all of the laws and never does anything dumb, please tell me where that is -- I might want to move there.

Not the PP you were addressing but this is not a case where you have one individual making flagrantly discriminatory remarks but there are three individuals who OP says did so. Count me among those who question OP's version of the events.

Discriminatory lawsuits are immensely stressful and unless OP really has excellent grounds for such a suit and the evidence to support it, she may wish to follow the advice of the PP attorney and just move on to another job. For example, has there been a trend with her employer where pregnant employees are discriminated against? If she is the only one - or the first one - she better have something more than a "he said, she said" allegation.

Even if she has strong grounds she is going to go through a lot of stress pursuing such a suit. I say this as someone who has witnessed employees suing a company for discrimination. In larger companies, we'd just outsource the lawsuit to outside counsel and the involvement of those being sued would be limited to a couple of meetings with the attorney and, perhaps, being deposed. It never went much further than this in most instances. If we were vulnerable, we'd likely settle for the complainant's attorney's fees and that was the end of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do not believe a word of your post. No company would engage in such egregious behavior and leave themselves wide open for a lawsuit and a huge settement. Instead, it sounds as though you are either a troll or trying out your concocted story to sue your employer.

That is an odd thing to say. People do dumb (and illegal) things all the time. People who work for companies do dumb (and illegal) things all the time. If you live somewhere where everybody always follows all of the laws and never does anything dumb, please tell me where that is -- I might want to move there.

Not the PP you were addressing but this is not a case where you have one individual making flagrantly discriminatory remarks but there are three individuals who OP says did so. Count me among those who question OP's version of the events.
Discriminatory lawsuits are immensely stressful and unless OP really has excellent grounds for such a suit and the evidence to support it, she may wish to follow the advice of the PP attorney and just move on to another job. For example, has there been a trend with her employer where pregnant employees are discriminated against? If she is the only one - or the first one - she better have something more than a "he said, she said" allegation.

Even if she has strong grounds she is going to go through a lot of stress pursuing such a suit. I say this as someone who has witnessed employees suing a company for discrimination. In larger companies, we'd just outsource the lawsuit to outside counsel and the involvement of those being sued would be limited to a couple of meetings with the attorney and, perhaps, being deposed. It never went much further than this in most instances. If we were vulnerable, we'd likely settle for the complainant's attorney's fees and that was the end of it.

I personally witnessed a case where three senior people repeatedly made flagrantly discriminatory remarks, even after the lawyers and HR people told them to stop. It happens. Workplaces have cultures, and people can be fools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im not sure if I would have a case... but I have to put it out into the world what I am going through at work since I got pregnant.

My manager has known that we were doing IVF, and has been really friendly about it in the last year. So when he asked me if this cycle worked, even tho it was a little early to be announcing, I told him yes... as a friend. He was out of town for the rest of the week. The following week when he came back to work, the day before my first ultrasound, he came into my office to let me know that they had re-hired the female I had actually replaced a year and a half ago, to take my position back. They had planned to move me to another position... I was extremely upset by this. He listed many reasons, one of them being "dont you want to have a less stressful position now that you are pregnant?" and "did you think that you would still be able to handle these hours after having the baby?". I was extremely upset, but tried to be understanding. The next day, we found out that we are expecting twins.

Because my manager had already told my co-workers that I am pregnant, I felt no reason to hide the fact that its twins... especially because I have been so extremely sick. The following day, I was called into a meeting with my manager and the owner. The owner told me "congratulations on the twins!" which was mortifying because I really didnt plan on him specifically knowing so soon. He then told me that they would be changing me to yet another position, and that he would try to keep my pay the same, but I might not make exactly as much. He said that it was nothing personal, they appreciate all that I have done, but its a business decision. He then sent me to talk to the Comptroller of the company, who will be my new manager. I sat down in her office, and her first words were:

"well, I was really excited to have you over here, that is until I found out you went and got pregnant. I dont want to train you just so you can turn around and leave." I told her, that the new position was very new information, and I am just trying to figure out what is going on, but at this time I have no intentions of leaving.... thats when she responded with "Sure... excepts its TWINS, what the fuck are you going to do with twins? You expect to still work?" At that point I lost it. Trying to handle the shock of twins myself, along with my work suddenly falling apart, and everyone knowing about my pregnancy before I was ready... I lost it. To which she responded "Are you going to come in here and cry everytime I yell at you?" I just apologized and told her its still very early in my pregnancy, and asked to be excused. She said she would decide if I could have the position or not... and that was that.

Its been two weeks now, I am 9 weeks 2 days pregnant. I was supposed to change positions at the beginning of the month, and nothing has happened. They hired the girl to replace me literally the same day the first told me, so she has been here, and we have been stepping on one another's toes... meanwhile everyone in my office knows what is going on... and I am not even sure if I am going to have a pay check next month... I am really worried. I dont know if the owner knows what the comptroller said to me... and I dont want to tell him because if I end up working under her. I dont need the extra enemy... I am just at a loss. I have no idea what to expect next.

Thanks for reading.

I do not believe a word of your post. No company would engage in such egregious behavior and leave themselves wide open for a lawsuit and a huge settement. Instead, it sounds as though you are either a troll or trying out your concocted story to sue your employer.

+1

This was my reaction as well and I have worked in corporate environments for decades in various positions.

There is no way that these managers would open themselves up so blatantly to a lawsuit. You have a situation where OP's immediate manager, the owner of the company and the Controller have all allegedly made undiluted discriminatory comments that creates legal exposure. This is not to deny there is discrimination against pregnant women in the workplace but it is just not revealed in such an obvious manner.

Even smaller companies are informed in today's environment on what can and cannot be said to an employee because the risk of legal exposure is so great.

I don't know if OP is a troll but I seriously doubt her version of the meetings with different managers. As it now stands, unless OP has independent verification of the events, the managers will just deny they ever told her these things and it would be her version against theirs.

People in corporate environments are not always very smart and everyone has an opinion. Pregnancy discrimination is real. I have seen a number of comments during my career and even experienced pregnancy discrimination myself.

The first time I heard a comment was at a goodbye party for an employee at a STATE GOVERNMENT agency that I interned at- the boss was saying how she always told her employee who was leaving "not to get pregnant" but unfortunately never told her "not to let her husband take another job in a different state." OMG I couldn't believe it.

Another time I worked at a state University and we had just finished interviewing a candidate and WITH THE DOOR WIDE OPEN the male I was co-interviewing candidates with said "we probably don't want her, she's young and has children and will be out of work often." I just about died as the door was wide open and she had just left the room. People can be really stupid.

Both those above instances were at government agencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im not sure if I would have a case... but I have to put it out into the world what I am going through at work since I got pregnant.

My manager has known that we were doing IVF, and has been really friendly about it in the last year. So when he asked me if this cycle worked, even tho it was a little early to be announcing, I told him yes... as a friend. He was out of town for the rest of the week. The following week when he came back to work, the day before my first ultrasound, he came into my office to let me know that they had re-hired the female I had actually replaced a year and a half ago, to take my position back. They had planned to move me to another position... I was extremely upset by this. He listed many reasons, one of them being "dont you want to have a less stressful position now that you are pregnant?" and "did you think that you would still be able to handle these hours after having the baby?". I was extremely upset, but tried to be understanding. The next day, we found out that we are expecting twins.

Because my manager had already told my co-workers that I am pregnant, I felt no reason to hide the fact that its twins... especially because I have been so extremely sick. The following day, I was called into a meeting with my manager and the owner. The owner told me "congratulations on the twins!" which was mortifying because I really didnt plan on him specifically knowing so soon. He then told me that they would be changing me to yet another position, and that he would try to keep my pay the same, but I might not make exactly as much. He said that it was nothing personal, they appreciate all that I have done, but its a business decision. He then sent me to talk to the Comptroller of the company, who will be my new manager. I sat down in her office, and her first words were:

"well, I was really excited to have you over here, that is until I found out you went and got pregnant. I dont want to train you just so you can turn around and leave." I told her, that the new position was very new information, and I am just trying to figure out what is going on, but at this time I have no intentions of leaving.... thats when she responded with "Sure... excepts its TWINS, what the fuck are you going to do with twins? You expect to still work?" At that point I lost it. Trying to handle the shock of twins myself, along with my work suddenly falling apart, and everyone knowing about my pregnancy before I was ready... I lost it. To which she responded "Are you going to come in here and cry everytime I yell at you?" I just apologized and told her its still very early in my pregnancy, and asked to be excused. She said she would decide if I could have the position or not... and that was that.

Its been two weeks now, I am 9 weeks 2 days pregnant. I was supposed to change positions at the beginning of the month, and nothing has happened. They hired the girl to replace me literally the same day the first told me, so she has been here, and we have been stepping on one another's toes... meanwhile everyone in my office knows what is going on... and I am not even sure if I am going to have a pay check next month... I am really worried. I dont know if the owner knows what the comptroller said to me... and I dont want to tell him because if I end up working under her. I dont need the extra enemy... I am just at a loss. I have no idea what to expect next.

Thanks for reading.

I do not believe a word of your post. No company would engage in such egregious behavior and leave themselves wide open for a lawsuit and a huge settement. Instead, it sounds as though you are either a troll or trying out your concocted story to sue your employer.

+1

This was my reaction as well and I have worked in corporate environments for decades in various positions.

There is no way that these managers would open themselves up so blatantly to a lawsuit. You have a situation where OP's immediate manager, the owner of the company and the Controller have all allegedly made undiluted discriminatory comments that creates legal exposure. This is not to deny there is discrimination against pregnant women in the workplace but it is just not revealed in such an obvious manner.

Even smaller companies are informed in today's environment on what can and cannot be said to an employee because the risk of legal exposure is so great.

I don't know if OP is a troll but I seriously doubt her version of the meetings with different managers. As it now stands, unless OP has independent verification of the events, the managers will just deny they ever told her these things and it would be her version against theirs.

People in corporate environments are not always very smart and everyone has an opinion. Pregnancy discrimination is real. I have seen a number of comments during my career and even experienced pregnancy discrimination myself.

The first time I heard a comment was at a goodbye party for an employee at a STATE GOVERNMENT agency that I interned at- the boss was saying how she always told her employee who was leaving "not to get pregnant" but unfortunately never told her "not to let her husband take another job in a different state." OMG I couldn't believe it.

Another time I worked at a state University and we had just finished interviewing a candidate and WITH THE DOOR WIDE OPEN the male I was co-interviewing candidates with said "we probably don't want her, she's young and has children and will be out of work often." I just about died as the door was wide open and she had just left the room. People can be really stupid.

Both those above instances were at government agencies.

+1 When I was a graduate student, one candidate our department had invited out for a job talk was meeting with a bunch of us and we were all talking about the job search process and she told us at another university she gave a job talk at (she didn't say which one though) at least one of the professors told her it was a good thing she wasn't married or didn't have a boyfriend (she did have a boyfriend, but they assumed she didn't) so she wasn't on the "mommy track."

At the federal agency I worked for in DC one of my former co-workers ended up quitting. Her supervisor (my old boss) started spreading nasty rumors about why she quit to the entire division saying she was unstable and even pointing to "evidence" of it even though her real reason for quitting was because of terrible treatment by a fellow co-worker who was never ever going to get fired despite being incredibly sexist (all of this our boss was aware of since it was the reason she gave him when she turned in her notice). She ended up sending a letter to the head of the agency threatening to sue if the guy didn't stop.

I've seen some ridiculous behavior on the part of people managing organizations so I really don't find OP's story hard to believe at all.