Please help me explain this to DS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those who are all offended, why would you want/allow your daughters to dress like that at school anyway?

It's not all about the boys' reaction, either. I'm a married, heterosexual, 40-year old woman, and I don't want to be subjected to teenagers dressed like that, either. Save it for the beach.

I don't think that "I don't want to see it" is a rational basis for a school dress code.

Yes it is. People are pointing to sexualizing girls as the rationale for a dress code. I disagree. I think it's mostly historical and societal consensus, which comes down to "I don't want to see it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those who are all offended, why would you want/allow your daughters to dress like that at school anyway?

It's not all about the boys' reaction, either. I'm a married, heterosexual, 40-year old woman, and I don't want to be subjected to teenagers dressed like that, either. Save it for the beach.

I don't think that "I don't want to see it" is a rational basis for a school dress code.

Yes it is. People are pointing to sexualizing girls as the rationale for a dress code. I disagree. I think it's mostly historical and societal consensus, which comes down to "I don't want to see it."

That would be "Society doesn't want to see it". And why doesn't society want to see it? That's the issue. What's more, there evidently is not societal consensus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Funny that you mention wearing shorts to a doctor's appointment. I always dress professionally for a medical appointment because I feel the doctors take you more seriously than if you are in casual clothes. I went to a pediatrician visit once in jeans (neatly dressed, but casually) and the doctor proceeded to explain to me that there are THREE teaspoons in a tablespoon, so that we could reduce my son's medication to just TWO teaspoons. Apparently she did not think I could measure in mls.

Oh, I wouldn't blame that on your jeans. I'd blame that on the doctor being condescending. I've been condescended to by plenty of doctors while I was wearing professional clothes.

I agree that there are certainly many condescending doctors, but I do think they are less likely to condescend when they perceive the patient as a fellow member of the professional class, albeit in a different field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Some do.

Booty shorts are not allowed. What's the big deal? Why do we need to fight for booty shorts in our schools? There are serious issues related to gender inequality in this country. The right to booty shorts is not one of them. If the school had specifically written the rules to target female students, obviously I would understand the concern. This just sounds like a cry for attention rather than a protest with a real cause.

Some boys wear booty shorts to school? Where do you live?

But I think that your assumption is mistaken -- this is not a fight for booty shorts in our schools. This is a fight about sexist expectations about the clothing and behavior of boys vs. girls. I think that's a real cause, don't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Funny that you mention wearing shorts to a doctor's appointment. I always dress professionally for a medical appointment because I feel the doctors take you more seriously than if you are in casual clothes. I went to a pediatrician visit once in jeans (neatly dressed, but casually) and the doctor proceeded to explain to me that there are THREE teaspoons in a tablespoon, so that we could reduce my son's medication to just TWO teaspoons. Apparently she did not think I could measure in mls.

Oh, I wouldn't blame that on your jeans. I'd blame that on the doctor being condescending. I've been condescended to by plenty of doctors while I was wearing professional clothes.

I agree that there are certainly many condescending doctors, but I do think they are less likely to condescend when they perceive the patient as a fellow member of the professional class, albeit in a different field.

Yes, and that's a problem --specifically, a problem with doctors' behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Some do.

Booty shorts are not allowed. What's the big deal? Why do we need to fight for booty shorts in our schools? There are serious issues related to gender inequality in this country. The right to booty shorts is not one of them. If the school had specifically written the rules to target female students, obviously I would understand the concern. This just sounds like a cry for attention rather than a protest with a real cause.

Some boys wear booty shorts to school? Where do you live?

But I think that your assumption is mistaken -- this is not a fight for booty shorts in our schools. This is a fight about sexist expectations about the clothing and behavior of boys vs. girls. I think that's a real cause, don't you?

What's sexist about saying no booty shorts for boys or girls?

[Anonymous]

It's not even about people not wanting to see it. I have daughters and I don't care how long legged and cute they are; they are NEVER wearing tiny shorts to school on my watch. Things like that are the difference between kids with a good upbringing and kids who weren't brought up well. Do I want my adult daughters showing up to work in a skimpy sundress or attending a black tie event in casual clothing? No. That kind of education begins when they are young; it's teaching them how to properly present themselves in social situations. They can wear a bikini to the pool and play clothes when they're playing but they will know how to dress appropriately when it is required- and yes, it is required for school, which is an environment that deserves respect. If you don't instill in your kids things like this, you really do them a disservice. And it does reflect poorly on you as a parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not even about people not wanting to see it. I have daughters and I don't care how long legged and cute they are; they are NEVER wearing tiny shorts to school on my watch. Things like that are the difference between kids with a good upbringing and kids who weren't brought up well. Do I want my adult daughters showing up to work in a skimpy sundress or attending a black tie event in casual clothing? No. That kind of education begins when they are young; it's teaching them how to properly present themselves in social situations. They can wear a bikini to the pool and play clothes when they're playing but they will know how to dress appropriately when it is required- and yes, it is required for school, which is an environment that deserves respect. If you don't instill in your kids things like this, you really do them a disservice. And it does reflect poorly on you as a parent.

OK. But there is a big difference between your rules for your kids (or my rules for my kids) and a school's rule for its students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not even about people not wanting to see it. I have daughters and I don't care how long legged and cute they are; they are NEVER wearing tiny shorts to school on my watch. Things like that are the difference between kids with a good upbringing and kids who weren't brought up well. Do I want my adult daughters showing up to work in a skimpy sundress or attending a black tie event in casual clothing? No. That kind of education begins when they are young; it's teaching them how to properly present themselves in social situations. They can wear a bikini to the pool and play clothes when they're playing but they will know how to dress appropriately when it is required- and yes, it is required for school, which is an environment that deserves respect. If you don't instill in your kids things like this, you really do them a disservice. And it does reflect poorly on you as a parent.

OK. But there is a big difference between your rules for your kids (or my rules for my kids) and a school's rule for its students.

In fact, on another thread (in the general education forum, I think), somebody was saying that their school's dress code, dating back to the 1970s, is something like: students must wear clothing their parent(s) approved of. With an exception for offensive messages on T-shirts, that works for me.

[Anonymous]

Ok, well when they work in an office with a dress code and don't understand why they can't wear booty shorts because their personal rules differ from the office's rules, don't be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Some do.

Booty shorts are not allowed. What's the big deal? Why do we need to fight for booty shorts in our schools? There are serious issues related to gender inequality in this country. The right to booty shorts is not one of them. If the school had specifically written the rules to target female students, obviously I would understand the concern. This just sounds like a cry for attention rather than a protest with a real cause.

Some boys wear booty shorts to school? Where do you live?

But I think that your assumption is mistaken -- this is not a fight for booty shorts in our schools. This is a fight about sexist expectations about the clothing and behavior of boys vs. girls. I think that's a real cause, don't you?

What's sexist about saying no booty shorts for boys or girls?

First of all, "no booty shorts" is a dumb rule, unless you want the school administrators to spend a lot of time discussing whether or not these shorts (or those shorts, or those shorts) are "booty shorts".

Second of all, you know, and I know, and every kid in high school knows, that the "no booty shorts" rule is aimed at girls.

[Anonymous]

And has anyone taken a look at prom dresses these days? The girls look less like beautiful ingenues and more like hardened, 45 year old Vegas cocktail waitresses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, well when they work in an office with a dress code and don't understand why they can't wear booty shorts because their personal rules differ from the office's rules, don't be surprised.

It's interesting you should say that. My kids have been able to understand the concept of "These are our family's rules and expectations; other families have different rules and expectations; and schools/workplaces/other public spaces have their own rules and expectations, too" since they were in preschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And has anyone taken a look at prom dresses these days? The girls look less like beautiful ingenues and more like hardened, 45 year old Vegas cocktail waitresses.

But remember! The "no booty shorts" rule is not about society's sexist expectations for teenage girls' appearance and behavior!

Or maybe it actually is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Some do.

Booty shorts are not allowed. What's the big deal? Why do we need to fight for booty shorts in our schools? There are serious issues related to gender inequality in this country. The right to booty shorts is not one of them. If the school had specifically written the rules to target female students, obviously I would understand the concern. This just sounds like a cry for attention rather than a protest with a real cause.

Some boys wear booty shorts to school? Where do you live?

But I think that your assumption is mistaken -- this is not a fight for booty shorts in our schools. This is a fight about sexist expectations about the clothing and behavior of boys vs. girls. I think that's a real cause, don't you?

What's sexist about saying no booty shorts for boys or girls?

First of all, "no booty shorts" is a dumb rule, unless you want the school administrators to spend a lot of time discussing whether or not these shorts (or those shorts, or those shorts) are "booty shorts".

Second of all, you know, and I know, and every kid in high school knows, that the "no booty shorts" rule is aimed at girls.

Only because girls choose to wear them and because society has set up the expectation that women show off their legs and girls in as skimpy clothing as possible. You're calling the rule sexist while applying heteronormative reasoning to justify the protest. We all have to start somewhere to change things. The school didn't use that language that targets girls. And that is important.

I think schools have the right to establish a dress code in order to emphasize a certain focus in the school environment.