The teacher is not aware of my DD's reading level

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know, I watched a documentary about Finnish schools whose students undergo a sinlgle test throughout the entire school. The reasoning is that the teacher should know without any testing where each student is.

I spend more time with DD than the teacher. Why would you assume I don't know her reading level? I do. I don't need fancy tests to know, but just to prove the point at school she is testing for 2nd grade level.

So why on Earth would you be sending toddler books for her to read? I can only attribute that to a mistake.

I assumed - and still assume - you don't know her true reading level. Parents always spend more time with their children. Parents have also usually spent more time reading with their children. Parent have NOT spent more time reading with their children with a notepad writing down every single word that comes out of the child's mouth, including 'uhs'. Parents are often not taking the book away and saying to the child, "Now John, retell the book to me." If the parent is doing this, most likely the parent is untrained and will accept a SUMMARY and not a retelling. They are completely different.

And...just to prove "the point at school" as you so sweetly point out, if she's "testing for 2nd grade level" then the teacher is already aware of her reading level, no? Schools don't usually test kindergarteners beyond the end of the first grade level. Anyway, you seem to know everything. We were trying to help explain to you how reading levels work, but you go ahead and teach the teacher a lesson or two.

[Anonymous]

Once more: parents think that because their three year old can sing the ABC song that he "knows" the alphabet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once more: parents think that because their three year old can sing the ABC song that he "knows" the alphabet.

This is frustrating to read. It is entirely dismissive of OP and others who may have questions similar to hers. There may be some parents who think their child knows the alphabet by singing the ABC song, and there are others who think their child knows the alphabet by picking out the correct letters, naming them, and saying their associated sounds. Similarly, there may be some parents who think their kindergartner can read fluently but are actually not, and there are others who think their kindergartner is reading chapter books and retelling the story when asked.

Your response basically says that the Schools forum of DCUM is not a good place to ask questions and look for information, because posters will just ignore you and call you wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once more: parents think that because their three year old can sing the ABC song that he "knows" the alphabet.

This is frustrating to read. It is entirely dismissive of OP and others who may have questions similar to hers. There may be some parents who think their child knows the alphabet by singing the ABC song, and there are others who think their child knows the alphabet by picking out the correct letters, naming them, and saying their associated sounds. Similarly, there may be some parents who think their kindergartner can read fluently but are actually not, and there are others who think their kindergartner is reading chapter books and retelling the story when asked.

Your response basically says that the Schools forum of DCUM is not a good place to ask questions and look for information, because posters will just ignore you and call you wrong.

I am sensitive to the point you're trying to make, because I do feel like experts in a field-be they teachers, doctors, lawyers, whatever-tend to underestimate the value of direct, contextual experience over acquired expertise.

With that being said, in this thread, a host of people suggested a million reasons why what the teacher has done could have made perfect sense. OP immediately dismissed them all and concluded that the only possibility was that the teacher as an idiot. DCUMers did in fact provide lots of potentially-relevant information. OP either wasn't sincerely looking for it or doesn't have the ability to process it in a meaningful manner.

(Note that it could well be that all of the information DCUM provided is inapplicable to OP's particular case, and that the teacher really is an idiot. But at a bare minimum, this thread raised a million practical issues to discuss with the teacher, and OP still seems set on teaching the teacher a lesson. I find that more frustrating than PPs comment).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once more: parents think that because their three year old can sing the ABC song that he "knows" the alphabet.

This is frustrating to read. It is entirely dismissive of OP and others who may have questions similar to hers. There may be some parents who think their child knows the alphabet by singing the ABC song, and there are others who think their child knows the alphabet by picking out the correct letters, naming them, and saying their associated sounds. Similarly, there may be some parents who think their kindergartner can read fluently but are actually not, and there are others who think their kindergartner is reading chapter books and retelling the story when asked.

Your response basically says that the Schools forum of DCUM is not a good place to ask questions and look for information, because posters will just ignore you and call you wrong.

If you read OPs responses, she falls into the category of what the bolded post says above. She gets a response that says, “just so you're aware, teachers do not use the reading levels that you'll find assessed on books or online. Teachers have tests they administer to children. Children pass the level or they don't. To pass the level, typical things children need to do are:

--pronunciation
--inflection
--doesn't lose place in text (and if does, can find place in text)
--can retell accurately, without looking back, to include setting, characters, in order, specific details
--can give the author's purpose
--can do a text to text relation (how does this text relate to another text)
--can relate the text to self (how does this text relate to the child)
--Does the child use the characters' names or just pronouns
--"uh" and any other words other than the text counts against the child during the assessment

The child also needs to pass BOTH the fiction and non-fiction levels to "pass" onto the next level. Non-fiction is obviously much more difficult.

So when parents say, "Sally is WAY beyond this level," often, Sally is often right on that level. The "easiest" part of reading can be decoding (are the words pronounced correctly) because, in large part, once a child knows how to read, she can read most things. If, however, that same child is unable to answer the required questions to pass the reading level, the fact that she could pick the same book up and read it aloud beautifully does not mean anything whatsoever.”

She responded by saying, “I spend more time with DD than the teacher. Why would you assume I don't know her reading level? I do. I don't need fancy tests to know.” Now she also said that, “just to prove the point at school she is testing for 2nd grade level.” I believe that underlined part is a complete lie. Why? Because her first post is, “The teacher is not aware of my DD's reading level I'm bothered by the fact that DD's kindergarten teacher has been sending books for her to read at home and these books are way too easy for DD. I corrected the teacher and asked for higher level reading, but now it bothers me. Should she know the levels of her students?” Clearly if the school tested her at a 2nd grade reading level, the teacher would know she was at a 2nd grade reading level, even if she was sending the “wrong” books home. The mom is backpeddling now because she doesn’t “need a fancy test” to actually “know” what her child’s reading level is. So this is why this post is spot on...she KNOWS her kid's reading level without "needing" this "fancy test" that schools throughout the nation feel are necessary to determine true reading level.

[Anonymous]

I'm a high school English teacher, and I used to assume that I could assess my young child's reading level. However, after my sister (who teaches second grade) actually showed me a pile of marked DRA assessment papers (the pages the teachers write on while/after administering the DRA test), as well as the accompanying copies of student-completed papers and the DRA books that matched each set of paperwork, it was clear that there is a lot more to assessing a young child's reading level than I had known. I had NOT accurately assessed my own child's reading level.

There is much more to "reading level" than you realize, OP. Yes, you spend more time with your child and read with her, and you are assuredly aware of her "level" in SOME components of literacy, but you aren't aware of all components of reading/literacy that the teacher must assess.

My sister and her colleagues are forbidden to show parents the paperwork that was used in assessing the child's DRA, but maybe your child's teacher can share? (she will be reluctant if you have been combative or condescending in your attempts to "correct" her, though).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't speak for others, but the reason I assumed you might not know her reading level is because you don't come across as having a high degree of cognitive flexibility, which suggests you might now know what is in someone else's mind.

In any case, I think its very bizarre that your take-away from the fact that Finnish teachers know their students very well is that teacher expertise is trivial relative to your momma sense.

So, in your mind, we should not question the expertise of a teacher? So if a teacher gives out assignments that are not challenging we should assume that she knows better and the child should stay bored?

Well, I did ask today. It turns out she doesn't have time to listen to children read. She's been pleading for parent volunteers to come and listen to them read and assign books to take home. Some mom came and sent the wrong books for the entire class. So much for competency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a high school English teacher, and I used to assume that I could assess my young child's reading level. However, after my sister (who teaches second grade) actually showed me a pile of marked DRA assessment papers (the pages the teachers write on while/after administering the DRA test), as well as the accompanying copies of student-completed papers and the DRA books that matched each set of paperwork, it was clear that there is a lot more to assessing a young child's reading level than I had known. I had NOT accurately assessed my own child's reading level.

There is much more to "reading level" than you realize, OP. Yes, you spend more time with your child and read with her, and you are assuredly aware of her "level" in SOME components of literacy, but you aren't aware of all components of reading/literacy that the teacher must assess.

My sister and her colleagues are forbidden to show parents the paperwork that was used in assessing the child's DRA, but maybe your child's teacher can share? (she will be reluctant if you have been combative or condescending in your attempts to "correct" her, though).

why forbidden??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't speak for others, but the reason I assumed you might not know her reading level is because you don't come across as having a high degree of cognitive flexibility, which suggests you might now know what is in someone else's mind.

In any case, I think its very bizarre that your take-away from the fact that Finnish teachers know their students very well is that teacher expertise is trivial relative to your momma sense.

So, in your mind, we should not question the expertise of a teacher? So if a teacher gives out assignments that are not challenging we should assume that she knows better and the child should stay bored?

Well, I did ask today. It turns out she doesn't have time to listen to children read. She's been pleading for parent volunteers to come and listen to them read and assign books to take home. Some mom came and sent the wrong books for the entire class. So much for competency.

What school district? In Fairfax, the DRA is required to be given 2x/year. It would have already been give. I assure you if it is in FX county she has already (or a reading teacher) or someone else with DRA training, has already assessed your child once this year. Does that mean that they have time for kindergarten reading groups? Maybe not...but your kid has had at least one assessment in FX County. If in Montgomery Co. I'd strongly suspect a similar situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
She responded by saying, “I spend more time with DD than the teacher. Why would you assume I don't know her reading level? I do. I don't need fancy tests to know.” Now she also said that, “just to prove the point at school she is testing for 2nd grade level.” I believe that underlined part is a complete lie. Why? Because her first post is, “The teacher is not aware of my DD's reading level I'm bothered by the fact that DD's kindergarten teacher has been sending books for her to read at home and these books are way too easy for DD. I corrected the teacher and asked for higher level reading, but now it bothers me. Should she know the levels of her students?” Clearly if the school tested her at a 2nd grade reading level, the teacher would know she was at a 2nd grade reading level, even if she was sending the “wrong” books home. The mom is backpeddling now because she doesn’t “need a fancy test” to actually “know” what her child’s reading level is. So this is why this post is spot on...she KNOWS her kid's reading level without "needing" this "fancy test" that schools throughout the nation feel are necessary to determine true reading level.

Well, if she's fluently reading second grade books at home. And her DIEBELS scores are ranked for second grade. So if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck... maybe she DOES know the alphabet, after all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a high school English teacher, and I used to assume that I could assess my young child's reading level. However, after my sister (who teaches second grade) actually showed me a pile of marked DRA assessment papers (the pages the teachers write on while/after administering the DRA test), as well as the accompanying copies of student-completed papers and the DRA books that matched each set of paperwork, it was clear that there is a lot more to assessing a young child's reading level than I had known. I had NOT accurately assessed my own child's reading level.

There is much more to "reading level" than you realize, OP. Yes, you spend more time with your child and read with her, and you are assuredly aware of her "level" in SOME components of literacy, but you aren't aware of all components of reading/literacy that the teacher must assess.

My sister and her colleagues are forbidden to show parents the paperwork that was used in assessing the child's DRA, but maybe your child's teacher can share? (she will be reluctant if you have been combative or condescending in your attempts to "correct" her, though).

why forbidden??

B/c they reuse - they can't show the parent the precise testing. A teacher could show a book from another level that the kid won't be tested on anymore but you can't see your kid's exact write up or book he read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
She responded by saying, “I spend more time with DD than the teacher. Why would you assume I don't know her reading level? I do. I don't need fancy tests to know.” Now she also said that, “just to prove the point at school she is testing for 2nd grade level.” I believe that underlined part is a complete lie. Why? Because her first post is, “The teacher is not aware of my DD's reading level I'm bothered by the fact that DD's kindergarten teacher has been sending books for her to read at home and these books are way too easy for DD. I corrected the teacher and asked for higher level reading, but now it bothers me. Should she know the levels of her students?” Clearly if the school tested her at a 2nd grade reading level, the teacher would know she was at a 2nd grade reading level, even if she was sending the “wrong” books home. The mom is backpeddling now because she doesn’t “need a fancy test” to actually “know” what her child’s reading level is. So this is why this post is spot on...she KNOWS her kid's reading level without "needing" this "fancy test" that schools throughout the nation feel are necessary to determine true reading level.

Well, if she's fluently reading second grade books at home. And her DIEBELS scores are ranked for second grade. So if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck... maybe she DOES know the alphabet, after all.

It is Dibels, one "e". Who administered it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
She responded by saying, “I spend more time with DD than the teacher. Why would you assume I don't know her reading level? I do. I don't need fancy tests to know.” Now she also said that, “just to prove the point at school she is testing for 2nd grade level.” I believe that underlined part is a complete lie. Why? Because her first post is, “The teacher is not aware of my DD's reading level I'm bothered by the fact that DD's kindergarten teacher has been sending books for her to read at home and these books are way too easy for DD. I corrected the teacher and asked for higher level reading, but now it bothers me. Should she know the levels of her students?” Clearly if the school tested her at a 2nd grade reading level, the teacher would know she was at a 2nd grade reading level, even if she was sending the “wrong” books home. The mom is backpeddling now because she doesn’t “need a fancy test” to actually “know” what her child’s reading level is. So this is why this post is spot on...she KNOWS her kid's reading level without "needing" this "fancy test" that schools throughout the nation feel are necessary to determine true reading level.

Well, if she's fluently reading second grade books at home. And her DIEBELS scores are ranked for second grade. So if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck... maybe she DOES know the alphabet, after all.

Dear, she is fluently DECODING second grade books at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Dear, she is fluently DECODING second grade books at home.

Or she might actually be fluently reading second-grade books at home. The point is that the OP assumed, right off the bat, without any further information, that the teacher

1. doesn't know the reading level, and
2. has no good reason to send home the book that came home.

[Anonymous]

Don't the teacher tell you what her reading level is? Do you have question with the assessment? Or simply what was sent home that day.

I think the reason people are frustrated with the OP is that she clearly does not have a terminology right. It makes other think that she does not know what she is talking about.