Agnostic vs. Atheist
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Anonymous
I would say that atheists don't believe in gods period -- irrespective of major religions, minor religions, spirituality, whatever. |
Anonymous
Why would you say "I suppose you could be right" to a Catholic or anybody else? Shocking as it may seem, neither Catholics, nor anybody else needs your agreement and validation. This is a very strange approach that has little to do with atheist convictions. |
Anonymous
You sound defensive as if someone is twisting your arm to believe. I would argue that allowing only "useful" things, thoughts, and feelings into your life constitutes a rather miserable way to live. |
Anonymous
What is the value of letting useless things into your life? |
Anonymous
LMAO No cash value, indeed. |
Anonymous
What, like guilt, shame, superstition? Yeah, super useful and helpful in leading a good life. 
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Anonymous
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What is clear from everything here, and what has been said explicitly several times, is that different posters understand the terms differently. We could have a much clearer discussion if we just asked each other to explain how we view the world, especially with respect to religion.
I would explain that I think the universe is amazing, and the fact that life developed despite the apparent tendency of things to go from order to disorder (entropy is the term, if I recall) would be incredible to me if I did not see it all around me. I can understand why many consider that proof of the existence of God. But to me, it's hubris to think that people, even with today's knowledge, let alone the level of knowledge that existed thousands of years ago, have any hope of doing any more than slowly chipping away at understanding, as scientists continually try to do. As to the terms at issue here, I'd say that we all ought to be agnostics, in the sense of recognizing that this universe, whether at the scale of galaxies or the scale of electrons, defies our limited intellects, and that we cannot KNOW what it's all about. At the same time, it is human to try to make sense of things around us, whether through religion, through belief in human rationality, or through an acceptance of life as we find it without a meaning beyond what we see day to day. So to me, a Catholic, for example, who says that through the grace of God s/he has faith is an agnostic who believes in God, while I, on the other hand, would call myself an agnostic atheist, because although I don't believe there is a god in any sense that most people use the term, I would not claim that I believe that for any reason other than that it seems totally obvious to me (with emphasis on "seems" and on "to me"). |
Anonymous
Any point in substituting those by anger, denial, resistance? 
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Anonymous
Substitution not needed One can simply reject the guilt, shame and superstition that is part of most religions. But it's understandable if some people's reaction to religion is anger that they were taught things that were not true, denial that its important to believe in them and resistance to being shamed into continuing to believe them. |
Anonymous
But why not simply reject the anger, denial, and resistance? None of these things are positive or particularly useful? I hope you get the hint. Human life cannot be 100% rational by definition. No matter how much you think you resist this notion 
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Anonymous
People do reject these things -- some from the start and some after a while. It takes some time, first to realize you've been fooled, and then to come to terms with it and make changes in your life that often involve making changes in relationships with individuals or groups that have been very important in your life. Atheists, like other normal people, are fully aware that life experiences are not 100% rational - you're showing your ignorance if you think they resist that notion. What they resist is believing in things that some of them were taught as gullible children that they now know to be untrue. |
Anonymous
I agree. I know a good number of atheists but no agnostics. I only knew agnostics in college. |
Anonymous
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Agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve in God. I'm an atheist because although I can't know there isn't a god, I also can't know I won't come back as a snake or that this isn't all just a computer simulation. But all of those options seem so unlikely to me that I just have to admit I don't believe they are the truth.
I guess I would say that agnostics think the possibility of a god is plausible. |
Anonymous
Not necessarily. My atheism is an accurate description of the fact that I lack belief and faith. Most of the religious people I know would say they believe because they do, not because they think they have evidence of God. |
Anonymous
t SOME agnostics feel the way you describe above. Others do not -- it's sort of a self-definition at this point. Some are comfortable with the moniker agnostic. Some are searching -- looking for the one bit of knowledge or insight that will swing them one way or the other, while others are well on the way to atheism, or already there, but are uncomfortable calling themselves that. |