Will the Westbard redevelopment blow up the Whitman cluster?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I like the other poster's idea about M-83, which would connect Clarksburg to Shady Grove Metro and/or running a BRT (or buses) directly down (0-2 stops along a direct route would be fine). Instead, what we are offered is the CCT, which twists and loops its way through Germantown, Gaithersburg, and Rockville and is ultimately used to justify development.

As for my preferences regarding "Science City", I prefer low density development in accordance with the donor's intent. Then there would be no need to run a BRT through that neighorhood.

M-83 (the highway project from Montgomery Village to Clarksburg) and the CCT (the bus rapid transit project from Shady Grove Metro to Metropolitan Grove in Gaithersburg) are not competing projects. The planning is different, the funding is different, and the agency in charge is different.

Also, M-83 would not connect Clarksburg to Shady Grove Metro. M-83 is supposed to be an alternative to 270 and 355.

What does this have to do with Westbard?? The developers and planners say it is not planned to have a regional draw (unlike Downtown Bethesda) so getting here from shady grove or Clarksburg is pretty much irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

What if there isn't room available for another 800-student campus? Bethesda is pretty built out already.

Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS isn't the problem. The County leadership and Planning Board is. They are the ones who keep approving - no, encouraging - more development. They need to devise a process that forces developers to fund infrastructure improvements made necessary by the new properties. Chevy Chase Lake (which will feed into the BCC cluster) is equally terrifying in terms of potential impact on schools and transportation.

This! It is ridiculous that they allow developers to keep building these mixed use developments all around the county without seeming to give any thought to how that will effect infrastructure.

I'm under no illusion that these developments aren't going forward, but we residents can't hold these developers hostage when MCPS sits on its hands. If MCPS isn't engaged, there isn't anyone at the table saying, "No, you can't add 100-200 more students to this community given the schools we have in the area unless we have (1) a new school, or (2) build additions to these X schools, so you (developer) need to factor $X into your budget to help defray the cost to the community your development will create. But no, MCPS sends Bruce Crispell to these meetings to tell residents that MCPS won't do anything until the developers are done, which means 100% of the costs are borne by the taxpayers. The developer gets its project and the profits, and isn't making the investment it should into the infrastructure that's supposed to support the development because MCPS doesn't challenge anything the developer says. After the developers are gone, we residents have to deal with the overcrowding at the schools and also have to pay to support additions -- which of course won't be built anywhere near us because school construction funds are tight state-wide and no one thinks Bethesda needs anything.

Bingo. And it's not just roads and schools - it's all sorts of services. For example, swim classes were FULL by 9 am today - just 2.5 hours after registration opened. The pools are overcrowded. You can't find parking at Grosvenor metro and more...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm under no illusion that these developments aren't going forward, but we residents can't hold these developers hostage when MCPS sits on its hands. If MCPS isn't engaged, there isn't anyone at the table saying, "No, you can't add 100-200 more students to this community given the schools we have in the area unless we have (1) a new school, or (2) build additions to these X schools, so you (developer) need to factor $X into your budget to help defray the cost to the community your development will create. But no, MCPS sends Bruce Crispell to these meetings to tell residents that MCPS won't do anything until the developers are done, which means 100% of the costs are borne by the taxpayers. The developer gets its project and the profits, and isn't making the investment it should into the infrastructure that's supposed to support the development because MCPS doesn't challenge anything the developer says. After the developers are gone, we residents have to deal with the overcrowding at the schools and also have to pay to support additions -- which of course won't be built anywhere near us because school construction funds are tight state-wide and no one thinks Bethesda needs anything.

This is inaccurate.

1. What MCPS doesn't do is take future enrollment into account in its enrollment projections until the development is approved. And I think that's the right decision.

2. The developers pay impact taxes, and the money is supposed to go towards transportation and school infrastructure. If you think that the developers should pay more towards transportation and school infrastructure, then you should ask the County Council to raise the impact taxes.

So...how much are Impact taxes and what would they be in Chevy Chase Lake & Westbard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, back again.

In terms of where a new elementary school could go, how about the site of Washington Waldorf School, next door to the Defense Mapping Agency site on Sangamore?

Years ago it was an MCPS elementary school (Brookmont Elementary).

The existing building would have to be knocked down and the school rebuilt. But you could send Sumner and Glen Echo Heights kids to that new school, relieving Wood Acres of enough pressure to make room for the new arrivals in Westbard.

Has this been mentioned as a possibility (the site, if not who would go to the school)?

MCPS signed a 30-year lease with the Waldorf school in 2012, so no -- I don't think that's an option (good planning, MCPS!)

In 2012??? That is unconscionable. There was already severe overcrowding in 2012.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

What would smarter redevelopment be at Westbard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS isn't the problem. The County leadership and Planning Board is. They are the ones who keep approving - no, encouraging - more development. They need to devise a process that forces developers to fund infrastructure improvements made necessary by the new properties. Chevy Chase Lake (which will feed into the BCC cluster) is equally terrifying in terms of potential impact on schools and transportation.

This! It is ridiculous that they allow developers to keep building these mixed use developments all around the county without seeming to give any thought to how that will effect infrastructure.

I'm under no illusion that these developments aren't going forward, but we residents can't hold these developers hostage when MCPS sits on its hands. If MCPS isn't engaged, there isn't anyone at the table saying, "No, you can't add 100-200 more students to this community given the schools we have in the area unless we have (1) a new school, or (2) build additions to these X schools, so you (developer) need to factor $X into your budget to help defray the cost to the community your development will create. But no, MCPS sends Bruce Crispell to these meetings to tell residents that MCPS won't do anything until the developers are done, which means 100% of the costs are borne by the taxpayers. The developer gets its project and the profits, and isn't making the investment it should into the infrastructure that's supposed to support the development because MCPS doesn't challenge anything the developer says. After the developers are gone, we residents have to deal with the overcrowding at the schools and also have to pay to support additions -- which of course won't be built anywhere near us because school construction funds are tight state-wide and no one thinks Bethesda needs anything.

Bingo. And it's not just roads and schools - it's all sorts of services. For example, swim classes were FULL by 9 am today - just 2.5 hours after registration opened. The pools are overcrowded. You can't find parking at Grosvenor metro and more...

My oldest kid is 22 and getting into swim classes was just as impossible when DC was 3/4 too. That's not new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

What would smarter redevelopment be at Westbard?

Renovation and low density development (it is not close enough to mass transit except buses on already crowded River Rd). High density development there is going to add to these major problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

What would smarter redevelopment be at Westbard?

Renovation and low density development (it is not close enough to mass transit except buses on already crowded River Rd). High density development there is going to add to these major problems.

But what do you mean by "low density" and "high density"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

What would smarter redevelopment be at Westbard?

Renovation and low density development (it is not close enough to mass transit except buses on already crowded River Rd). High density development there is going to add to these major problems.

But what do you mean by "low density" and "high density"?

Maintain or slightly increase the current retail square footage but rebuild/renovate the current buildings. Bring in other mixed use (ie, a nursing home again, dogpark, daycare, etc.). Build only more residential that can be supported by current school capacity (when Woodacres is renovated, and also factoring in Pyle and Whitman). The fact is simply there is no where else (and no $) to build more schools in the area - so new development has to be supported by these current schools. That is what I meant by low density.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

What would smarter redevelopment be at Westbard?

Renovation and low density development (it is not close enough to mass transit except buses on already crowded River Rd). High density development there is going to add to these major problems.

The problem is that low density is not economical for the developers. I wish they could just redevelop the shopping center and be done with it but I gather the economic return on that is not there. The answer is somewhere in between low and high density, which seems to be sort of where the planners have ended up. And all that planning still assumes that someone will actually want to invest in the area based on the master plan. Supposedly Equity One still does but there are plenty of other parts of the master plan that Equity One doesn't own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Maintain or slightly increase the current retail square footage but rebuild/renovate the current buildings. Bring in other mixed use (ie, a nursing home again, dogpark, daycare, etc.). Build only more residential that can be supported by current school capacity (when Woodacres is renovated, and also factoring in Pyle and Whitman). The fact is simply there is no where else (and no $) to build more schools in the area - so new development has to be supported by these current schools. That is what I meant by low density.

Master plans are supposed to last 20-30 years, so I don't think it would make sense to limit the master plan based on current limitations. There would be places to put schools, if MCPS changed their requirements for school sites. Do elementary, middle, and high schools really have to have 7.5, 15.5, and 35 acres, respectively? And while there is currently insufficient capital funding for schools, we shouldn't assume that there will always be insufficient capital funding for schools.

Maybe the solution is to add school staging requirements for residential development -- for example, no more than x residential units until MCPS has acquired a school site; no more than y residential units until capital funding for the school is in the five-year plan etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

What would smarter redevelopment be at Westbard?

Renovation and low density development (it is not close enough to mass transit except buses on already crowded River Rd). High density development there is going to add to these major problems.

Be forewarned. There is already lobbying to extend the Purple Line south and west of downtown Bethesda on the trail right of way. As we know, this used to be a railroad, but it would effectively spell the end of the trail. Proponents see extension of the line as a necessary element of really "unlocking" the development density potential not only of Westbard but also of the Sangamore area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. That is why the new Bethesda Middle School will pretty much be in Kensington. There simply wasnt the space elsewhere in Bethesda. And concern for school overcrowding isn't stopping the apartments from being built in downtown Bethesda. The ratio MCPS uses for predicting families from apartments is flawed. Just wait 5-15 years from now. It will not be pretty at the Elementary and High School levels. Westbard does need re-development - but they need to be smarter about it!

What would smarter redevelopment be at Westbard?

Renovation and low density development (it is not close enough to mass transit except buses on already crowded River Rd). High density development there is going to add to these major problems.

Be forewarned. There is already lobbying to extend the Purple Line south and west of downtown Bethesda on the trail right of way. As we know, this used to be a railroad, but it would effectively spell the end of the trail. Proponents see extension of the line as a necessary element of really "unlocking" the development density potential not only of Westbard but also of the Sangamore area.

There is? From whom? Where? How?

And since the Purple Line between Bethesda and Silver Spring, also on former railroad land, will actually improve the Capital Crescent Trail in many ways, I don't understand why an extended Purple Line would "effectively spell the end of the trail" west of Bethesda. Please explain.

[Anonymous]

WMAL's parent company selling 75 acres surrounding its radio tower in Greentree Road:
http://www.thesentinel.com/mont/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1632:washington-radio-station-acreage-up-for-sale&Itemid=766