K report card is such BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are easier to understand not just because parents are used to them but because there's more of a gradient and there was usually some sort of mathematical formula for the grades based on achievement + effort and everyone knew that. If you didn't turn in your homework that counted X percent but if you aced the tests you might still be able to get an A or a B because it sounded Y percent.

These new report cards in K are supposed to be based on mastery but some teachers give Is even if a student has mastered the material due to lack of effort or whatever. So it is very confusing and very subjective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And what I wish they would move back to. Letter grades seem easier to understand and easier for student/parents to interpret how the student is doing.

This doesn't apply yet in kindergarten, but in a system that uses letter grades it seems easier to give students a goal to work towards and parents more options for standards to hold their children to.

I wish letter grades would be brought back at least for 3rd grade and up, which is what our old school system did. I don't mind the fuzzy, looser standards and evaluations so much for K-2 but by 3rd grade I think there should be actual grades that actually mean something and everyone is clear on their meaning.

Letter grades seem easier to understand and easier for parents to interpret because that's what people are used to.

They're easier to understand because they are quantitative rather than qualitative. By that, I mean that letter grades are typically based on percentages, which are arrived at by taking the total of points a student earned on activities that were assessed divided by the total number of points possible had the student gotten all answers correct on all assessed assignments. There was very little question about "What does a B mean and how/why did my kid get that grade?" (it means the student demonstrated that they know/can correctly perform between 80% and 89% of the assessed information or skills) as compared to how much confusion there is surrounding what I/P/E mean and how or why kids get those.

The answer to "How can my child get the next higher score" is way easier to answer under letter grades.

Also, one criticism I have seen of standards based grading is that there are only two "successful" levels where the student has met the standard, and since E's are rare most students who have met or exceeded the standard will have a P. Therefore, it is hard to tell exactly how your student is doing. They have met the standard, but have they just barely met it or are they far above it and producing work that's consistently almost completely free from mistakes? That is information I would find valuable, and due to the design of the letter grade system it is much easier to find that out under letter grades. With letter grades there are either 3 or 4 "successful" levels, depending on the school's policies. Either a D or a C is "barely meeting" the standards, and there are well-defined levels above that to differentiate how well a given student is meeting or exceeding the standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They're easier to understand because they are quantitative rather than qualitative. By that, I mean that letter grades are typically based on percentages, which are arrived at by taking the total of points a student earned on activities that were assessed divided by the total number of points possible had the student gotten all answers correct on all assessed assignments. There was very little question about "What does a B mean and how/why did my kid get that grade?" (it means the student demonstrated that they know/can correctly perform between 80% and 89% of the assessed information or skills) as compared to how much confusion there is surrounding what I/P/E mean and how or why kids get those.

Letter grades are no less subjective for being quantitative. Should the letter grade include homework? How much? And just completion, or also how it was completed? Should the tests be graded absolutely or on a curve? Why? And so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They're easier to understand because they are quantitative rather than qualitative. By that, I mean that letter grades are typically based on percentages, which are arrived at by taking the total of points a student earned on activities that were assessed divided by the total number of points possible had the student gotten all answers correct on all assessed assignments. There was very little question about "What does a B mean and how/why did my kid get that grade?" (it means the student demonstrated that they know/can correctly perform between 80% and 89% of the assessed information or skills) as compared to how much confusion there is surrounding what I/P/E mean and how or why kids get those.

Letter grades are no less subjective for being quantitative. Should the letter grade include homework? How much? And just completion, or also how it was completed? Should the tests be graded absolutely or on a curve? Why? And so on.

There is nothing subjective about those things (other than grading on a curve) within an individual class. The teacher will have policies. Ask about them. The student/parent can know exactly what they are getting into, and then it is a simple matter of how many points the kid earned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They're easier to understand because they are quantitative rather than qualitative. By that, I mean that letter grades are typically based on percentages, which are arrived at by taking the total of points a student earned on activities that were assessed divided by the total number of points possible had the student gotten all answers correct on all assessed assignments. There was very little question about "What does a B mean and how/why did my kid get that grade?" (it means the student demonstrated that they know/can correctly perform between 80% and 89% of the assessed information or skills) as compared to how much confusion there is surrounding what I/P/E mean and how or why kids get those.

Letter grades are no less subjective for being quantitative. Should the letter grade include homework? How much? And just completion, or also how it was completed? Should the tests be graded absolutely or on a curve? Why? And so on.

There is nothing subjective about those things (other than grading on a curve) within an individual class. The teacher will have policies. Ask about them. The student/parent can know exactly what they are getting into, and then it is a simple matter of how many points the kid earned.

That's the subjective part.

The teacher also has policies about N/I/P/ES. Ask about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are easier to understand not just because parents are used to them but because there's more of a gradient and there was usually some sort of mathematical formula for the grades based on achievement + effort and everyone knew that. If you didn't turn in your homework that counted X percent but if you aced the tests you might still be able to get an A or a B because it sounded Y percent.

These new report cards in K are supposed to be based on mastery but some teachers give Is even if a student has mastered the material due to lack of effort or whatever. So it is very confusing and very subjective.

All report cards are very subjective. Letter grades are subjective too.

Also, if a teacher gives a student an I due to lack of effort, even though the student has mastered the material, that's a teacher problem, not a report-card format problem. The teacher is not supposed to do that.

Then how do you tell a family the student lacks effort. There are no comments on the report card.

You look at the learning skills on the report card -- specifically the work habits (rules and procedures, task completion) and effort/motivation/persistence. These are assessed as demonstrating/progressing/not yet evident.

How would you tell from a letter-grade report card that the student lacks effort?

That tells you so little. Report cards used to have comments. This is sad. Can teachers not put in a little more effort?

[Anonymous]

I like that section on the right that tells you about classroom skills and peer interactions. That's pretty helpful.
But our teacher told us she takes effort and attitude into account for the other stuff on the left (math, language, etc.) That's NOT RIGHT according to official MCPS policy but it's still what some teachers do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are easier to understand not just because parents are used to them but because there's more of a gradient and there was usually some sort of mathematical formula for the grades based on achievement + effort and everyone knew that. If you didn't turn in your homework that counted X percent but if you aced the tests you might still be able to get an A or a B because it sounded Y percent.

These new report cards in K are supposed to be based on mastery but some teachers give Is even if a student has mastered the material due to lack of effort or whatever. So it is very confusing and very subjective.

All report cards are very subjective. Letter grades are subjective too.

Also, if a teacher gives a student an I due to lack of effort, even though the student has mastered the material, that's a teacher problem, not a report-card format problem. The teacher is not supposed to do that.

Then how do you tell a family the student lacks effort. There are no comments on the report card.

You look at the learning skills on the report card -- specifically the work habits (rules and procedures, task completion) and effort/motivation/persistence. These are assessed as demonstrating/progressing/not yet evident.

How would you tell from a letter-grade report card that the student lacks effort?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are easier to understand not just because parents are used to them but because there's more of a gradient and there was usually some sort of mathematical formula for the grades based on achievement + effort and everyone knew that. If you didn't turn in your homework that counted X percent but if you aced the tests you might still be able to get an A or a B because it sounded Y percent.

These new report cards in K are supposed to be based on mastery but some teachers give Is even if a student has mastered the material due to lack of effort or whatever. So it is very confusing and very subjective.

All report cards are very subjective. Letter grades are subjective too.

Also, if a teacher gives a student an I due to lack of effort, even though the student has mastered the material, that's a teacher problem, not a report-card format problem. The teacher is not supposed to do that.

Then how do you tell a family the student lacks effort. There are no comments on the report card.

You look at the learning skills on the report card -- specifically the work habits (rules and procedures, task completion) and effort/motivation/persistence. These are assessed as demonstrating/progressing/not yet evident.

How would you tell from a letter-grade report card that the student lacks effort?

Well, report cards used to have comments for one thing. The teacher would at least note whether the student was polite, diligent, tended to be spacey, needed to put in more effort, simple short comments like that.

If the grades are good, then obviously either the effort is there or additional effort beyond what the student put in is unnecessary.

If grades are unsatisfactory, lack of effort is always going to be my first suspicion. We will start there, and if that doesn't begin to show an improvement in the student's grades within a month or so we will contact the teacher to see if other issues may be at play besides lack of effort. Frequently, however, letter grades can speak for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, report cards used to have comments for one thing. The teacher would at least note whether the student was polite, diligent, tended to be spacey, needed to put in more effort, simple short comments like that.

If the grades are good, then obviously either the effort is there or additional effort beyond what the student put in is unnecessary.

If grades are unsatisfactory, lack of effort is always going to be my first suspicion. We will start there, and if that doesn't begin to show an improvement in the student's grades within a month or so we will contact the teacher to see if other issues may be at play besides lack of effort. Frequently, however, letter grades can speak for themselves.

So if your child is just skating by but has an A, that's fine with you?

A P also speaks for itself, by the way. And if you find an I unsatisfactory, you can similarly start with lack of effort, and then if that doesn't work, contact the teacher to see if other issues are at play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So if your child is just skating by but has an A, that's fine with you?
.

Not always, but in a lot of cases, yeah. Time and effort are not infinite resources. If she can get an A for putting in 3 hours in x subject, and using another 2 hours doing something else worthwhile; I would prefer that than to putting in 5 hours in x subject and still getting an A, but with a lot more effort and time. And why stop at 5 hours? Why not 10? Sometimes you do what you need to do so you can get to something else. It's a valuable skill.

[Anonymous]

I really miss the comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, one criticism I have seen of standards based grading is that there are only two "successful" levels where the student has met the standard, and since E's are rare most students who have met or exceeded the standard will have a P. Therefore, it is hard to tell exactly how your student is doing. They have met the standard, but have they just barely met it or are they far above it and producing work that's consistently almost completely free from mistakes? That is information I would find valuable, and due to the design of the letter grade system it is much easier to find that out under letter grades. With letter grades there are either 3 or 4 "successful" levels, depending on the school's policies. Either a D or a C is "barely meeting" the standards, and there are well-defined levels above that to differentiate how well a given student is meeting or exceeding the standards.

I agree completely. Without refining it any farther than it is currently, you may as well make it pass/fail.

[Anonymous]

Pass/fail would be fine if there were comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really miss the comments.

I don't remember getting any meaningful comments on the report cards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really miss the comments.

I don't remember getting any meaningful comments on the report cards.

We definitely did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So if your child is just skating by but has an A, that's fine with you?
.

Not always, but in a lot of cases, yeah. Time and effort are not infinite resources. If she can get an A for putting in 3 hours in x subject, and using another 2 hours doing something else worthwhile; I would prefer that than to putting in 5 hours in x subject and still getting an A, but with a lot more effort and time. And why stop at 5 hours? Why not 10? Sometimes you do what you need to do so you can get to something else. It's a valuable skill.

Correct, and the PP's rationale is mine as well. They have an A... why would they put in more effort when that effort could be spent on something else? Opportunity cost applies in more than just economics. This has shifted a bit away from just talking about kindergarten, but by late elementary school my kids had enough competing priorities that as long as they had an A I don't see the point in telling them they need "more effort". Why and how? They already have the highest category of grade; more effort at that point is not going to yield a substantial benefit that is worth the extra effort.

That's actually what I hope for, really, that they're able to get all A's with little effort. Because that frees up a ton of time and effort for other things we consider important as well. Obviously academics are priority #1, so everything else gets only the time and effort which is left over once that priority has been taken care of therefore maximizing that amount of available time and effort is ideal.