Confused about what kids usually know entering Kindergarten

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Co-sign to the 11:11 post. Its not racist to say that the non-English speaking kids should be kept in a separate class with teachers trained to do this. Once they catch up, integrate them with other kids. Why should my kid have to be slowed down from learning because there are 2-3 kids who can't speak English and have no interest in being class because they can't understand anything?? I've seen it - I volunteer in school. It's not fair to the other kids or the hard-working teachers.

So by that logic,you're saying the special ed kids should also be removed from the general ed setting so your kid won't be "slowed down from learning"? The thing about public education is that everyone is entitled to an education in the least restrictive environment. If you don't like your kid being in class with students who need support to access the curriculum then you may want to consider private school or homeschooling. Wouldn't want your child to be inconvenienced by those pesky ESOL or special ed students.

So you are okay with illegal aliens entering our schools? It has been the obvious decrease in test scores and less funding to every child. It is really sad how we just encourage people to break the laws and we reward instead of deport.

The thing about this is that these kids have no say in whether they come into this country, or any for that matter. If you keep them from being educated, you will have a huge population of people in the future that are illiterate, and that will lead to higher crime. You can argue that these people should be deported and so then there would be no crime committed by these people, but the fact is that the local government is not responsible for deportation, but they are for education. So, it is beneficial for the local govt to educate these kids.

Illegal immigration is a larger issue that the local govt cannot control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Co-sign to the 11:11 post. Its not racist to say that the non-English speaking kids should be kept in a separate class with teachers trained to do this. Once they catch up, integrate them with other kids. Why should my kid have to be slowed down from learning because there are 2-3 kids who can't speak English and have no interest in being class because they can't understand anything?? I've seen it - I volunteer in school. It's not fair to the other kids or the hard-working teachers.

So by that logic,you're saying the special ed kids should also be removed from the general ed setting so your kid won't be "slowed down from learning"? The thing about public education is that everyone is entitled to an education in the least restrictive environment. If you don't like your kid being in class with students who need support to access the curriculum then you may want to consider private school or homeschooling. Wouldn't want your child to be inconvenienced by those pesky ESOL or special ed students.

So you are okay with illegal aliens entering our schools? It has been the obvious decrease in test scores and less funding to every child. It is really sad how we just encourage people to break the laws and we reward instead of deport.

I am a teacher. I don't care what a child's immigration status is when they walk into my classroom. All I know is that is a child I will teach. Test scores are not the be all/end all. If test scores are decreasing and the result is less funding to every child then take the cause up with the government who makes those decisions without ever stepping foot into a school, not 5 year old children. I would rather have a respectful and tolerant child who doesn't score high on standardized tests than a child who scores well but hasn't been taught to be respectful of others. Guess which child will end up more successful in life? Teach your child to be a respectful citizen of the world instead of worrying about standardized test scores. We are white and I am so glad that DS goes to a diverse school in a diverse neighborhood. It's pretty disgusting to me that people would feel otherwise and would actively seek out a school with little diversity. Your mileage may vary. Like a PP said I really hope you keep your views to yourself and don't impart them onto your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen plenty of kids coming into preschools, elementary schools and even middle schools act out and take 90% of the teacher's time because they don't speak English. The ESOL teacher above making claims they are perfect angels who just sit quietly in class is wrong. Kids are petrified, have no means of communication. The kid above was probably scared out of his mind. I would never move to another country and just plop my kid in a class where no one speaks English. It is a shame so many here do, especially when they are illegal. We should be teaching our kids another language in elementary school but instead we have to teach many basic English. But I am sure I too will now be considered a racist.

I am the ESOL teacher PP you are referring to, although I never claimed my students are perfect angels. No child is a perfect angel. What I said was that my ESOL students could give some native English speakers a lesson or two on how to behave in class. My students come to school motivated to learn and ready to work hard. I teach mostly K students, and while I have seen frustration in newcomer students, it usually stems from the fact that they want to keep up with their peers and do well in school, but they know they are not able to do so yet. Imagine you are new to the country and the language and in the third week of school you are expected to explain how you sorted objects in 3 different ways. This is why there are ESOL teachers. When a newcomer arrives, I am in their classroom first thing to show them how to sign in, choose lunch, and to show where the bathrooms are. I also give them picture cards to hold up for when they need to use the bathroom, get water or go to the health room. Those little things help to reduce anxiety in children who are unable to communicate in English. ESOL counselors are called in to help students with acculturation issues in their home language. I also provide them with a binder full of activities they can complete independently, like matching colors, numbers and letters. If it can't be done independently, most of the children in the class can show them quickly what to do. This is in addition to pulling them out 1-2 times per day for individual and small group instruction.

Like I said, have a little compassion. Of course there is a silent period where students need time to learn basic communication skills and some children will act out in frustration, just like your child might if you dropped him/her in a new country, but the PP who referenced the child from Korea is completely out of line. Adults, especially in this multicultural area, should know better than to attribute a child's behavior to where they are from. I sincerely hope the PPs are not passing their views on to their children.

Sorry no compassion from me. I don't believe our taxes should go towards teaching legal and illegal immigrants English during school time with school resources/funding. We have seen art, PE, music classes, para educators slashed to pay for the increasing ESOL teachers. Our curriculum continues to get easier and less challenging to make sure kids pass. Our test scores continue to diminish. If you want to move here learn the language before or have separate classes where the whole family must learn English. Maybe the PTA wouldn't have to send things out in 6 languages then. You can make the parents accountable too which is a non-issue as well. [/qoute]

You should go to private school.

[Anonymous]

I also teach ESOL students and I am saddened that people assume that just because a child comes to school speaking another native language that they must be illegal. None of my 28 ESOL students are illegal. Yes, I know there are some of them who are brought/sent here illegally but they are children. They do not have a say in what happens to them. Most of my ESOL students are better behaved than their classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry no compassion from me. I don't believe our taxes should go towards teaching legal and illegal immigrants English during school time with school resources/funding. We have seen art, PE, music classes, para educators slashed to pay for the increasing ESOL teachers. Our curriculum continues to get easier and less challenging to make sure kids pass. Our test scores continue to diminish. If you want to move here learn the language before or have separate classes where the whole family must learn English. Maybe the PTA wouldn't have to send things out in 6 languages then. You can make the parents accountable too which is a non-issue as well.

Please provide evidence to support your assertions that:

1. "art, PE, music classes, para educators slashed to pay for the increasing ESOL teachers"
2. "Our curriculum continues to get easier and less challenging to make sure kids pass"

Also, your disagreement is with the U.S. Supreme Court, which has held that denying public education based on immigration status violates the equal protection cause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Read Plyler v. Doe, then go talk about this stuff on the politics forum.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=457&invol=202

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also teach ESOL students and I am saddened that people assume that just because a child comes to school speaking another native language that they must be illegal. None of my 28 ESOL students are illegal. Yes, I know there are some of them who are brought/sent here illegally but they are children. They do not have a say in what happens to them. Most of my ESOL students are better behaved than their classmates.

So they aren't illegal but just brought here illegally? Same thing.

If we continue to welcome illegal immigrants and teach their kids (aka free childcare while parents work under the table) and they continue to come in millions and we deport none of them... who pays for all these kids to be educated? Legal tax-paying citizens. What if the government said that our taxes need to be 50% soon to help the ever increasing costs of educated a population of kids with no English, preschool background or money to pay for lunches. You are okay with 50% of your pay going back to help people who break a law and get government assistance on your dime because of it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also teach ESOL students and I am saddened that people assume that just because a child comes to school speaking another native language that they must be illegal. None of my 28 ESOL students are illegal. Yes, I know there are some of them who are brought/sent here illegally but they are children. They do not have a say in what happens to them. Most of my ESOL students are better behaved than their classmates.

So they aren't illegal but just brought here illegally? Same thing.

If we continue to welcome illegal immigrants and teach their kids (aka free childcare while parents work under the table) and they continue to come in millions and we deport none of them... who pays for all these kids to be educated? Legal tax-paying citizens. What if the government said that our taxes need to be 50% soon to help the ever increasing costs of educated a population of kids with no English, preschool background or money to pay for lunches. You are okay with 50% of your pay going back to help people who break a law and get government assistance on your dime because of it?

I'm not the PP who is the ESOL teacher, but I think it's likely that what the PP means is: they were born here. They are US citizens.

And who know who else pays for all these kids to be educated? "Illegal" tax-paying non-citizens.

[Anonymous]

Heck, American native indians and others would claim all you fools arrived at the shores of America illegally and stole the land over generations. Even illiterate a-holes with poor pigeon English as their only language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also teach ESOL students and I am saddened that people assume that just because a child comes to school speaking another native language that they must be illegal. None of my 28 ESOL students are illegal. Yes, I know there are some of them who are brought/sent here illegally but they are children. They do not have a say in what happens to them. Most of my ESOL students are better behaved than their classmates.

So they aren't illegal but just brought here illegally? Same thing.

If we continue to welcome illegal immigrants and teach their kids (aka free childcare while parents work under the table) and they continue to come in millions and we deport none of them... who pays for all these kids to be educated? Legal tax-paying citizens. What if the government said that our taxes need to be 50% soon to help the ever increasing costs of educated a population of kids with no English, preschool background or money to pay for lunches. You are okay with 50% of your pay going back to help people who break a law and get government assistance on your dime because of it?

I am the ESOL teacher who posted previously. None of MY 28 students are here illegally. They are all American citizens and have every right to be educated here as do the "illegals" per the Supreme Court decision another poster mentioned. I know a handful at our school are here illegally but the we do not ask for proof of citizenship as it is illegal for us to do so. The students who are illegal are here because they aren't old enough to make decisions about their lives. Should kids whose parents don't pay taxes be excluded from public schools too? My school has plenty of parents who are paid under the table and they are U.S. citizens. Kids need an education and all of them are getting one as guaranteed by law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry no compassion from me. I don't believe our taxes should go towards teaching legal and illegal immigrants English during school time with school resources/funding. We have seen art, PE, music classes, para educators slashed to pay for the increasing ESOL teachers. Our curriculum continues to get easier and less challenging to make sure kids pass. Our test scores continue to diminish. If you want to move here learn the language before or have separate classes where the whole family must learn English. Maybe the PTA wouldn't have to send things out in 6 languages then. You can make the parents accountable too which is a non-issue as well.

Please provide evidence to support your assertions that:

1. "art, PE, music classes, para educators slashed to pay for the increasing ESOL teachers"
2. "Our curriculum continues to get easier and less challenging to make sure kids pass"

Also, your disagreement is with the U.S. Supreme Court, which has held that denying public education based on immigration status violates the equal protection cause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Read Plyler v. Doe, then go talk about this stuff on the politics forum.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=457&invol=202

Yes I would like to see the evidence of number 1 and 2 as well. PP made some sweeping generalizations which I don't believe are backed up with facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry no compassion from me. I don't believe our taxes should go towards teaching legal and illegal immigrants English during school time with school resources/funding. We have seen art, PE, music classes, para educators slashed to pay for the increasing ESOL teachers. Our curriculum continues to get easier and less challenging to make sure kids pass. Our test scores continue to diminish. If you want to move here learn the language before or have separate classes where the whole family must learn English. Maybe the PTA wouldn't have to send things out in 6 languages then. You can make the parents accountable too which is a non-issue as well.

Please provide evidence to support your assertions that:

1. "art, PE, music classes, para educators slashed to pay for the increasing ESOL teachers"
2. "Our curriculum continues to get easier and less challenging to make sure kids pass"

Also, your disagreement is with the U.S. Supreme Court, which has held that denying public education based on immigration status violates the equal protection cause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Read Plyler v. Doe, then go talk about this stuff on the politics forum.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=457&invol=202

Yes I would like to see the evidence of number 1 and 2 as well. PP made some sweeping generalizations which I don't believe are backed up with facts.

I am one of the ESOL teacher PPs. As far as #1 goes, it is actually the opposite in my school for next year. Our ESOL allocation was reduced and our art/music/PE allocation was increased. Allocation decisions are made on a school-by-school basis based solely on current and projected enrollment, so while your school's ESOL allocation may have increased and the specialist allocation may have decreased, that is not the case throughout the county and should not be stated as such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Co-sign to the 11:11 post. Its not racist to say that the non-English speaking kids should be kept in a separate class with teachers trained to do this. Once they catch up, integrate them with other kids. Why should my kid have to be slowed down from learning because there are 2-3 kids who can't speak English and have no interest in being class because they can't understand anything?? I've seen it - I volunteer in school. It's not fair to the other kids or the hard-working teachers.

So by that logic,you're saying the special ed kids should also be removed from the general ed setting so your kid won't be "slowed down from learning"? The thing about public education is that everyone is entitled to an education in the least restrictive environment. If you don't like your kid being in class with students who need support to access the curriculum then you may want to consider private school or homeschooling. Wouldn't want your child to be inconvenienced by those pesky ESOL or special ed students.

So you are okay with illegal aliens entering our schools? It has been the obvious decrease in test scores and less funding to every child. It is really sad how we just encourage people to break the laws and we reward instead of deport.

I am a teacher. I don't care what a child's immigration status is when they walk into my classroom. All I know is that is a child I will teach. Test scores are not the be all/end all. If test scores are decreasing and the result is less funding to every child then take the cause up with the government who makes those decisions without ever stepping foot into a school, not 5 year old children. I would rather have a respectful and tolerant child who doesn't score high on standardized tests than a child who scores well but hasn't been taught to be respectful of others. Guess which child will end up more successful in life? Teach your child to be a respectful citizen of the world instead of worrying about standardized test scores. We are white and I am so glad that DS goes to a diverse school in a diverse neighborhood. It's pretty disgusting to me that people would feel otherwise and would actively seek out a school with little diversity. Your mileage may vary. Like a PP said I really hope you keep your views to yourself and don't impart them onto your children.

+1000...thank you for the work you (and the other teachers on this thread) do...for *all* children!