AAP Teachers-share your thoughts...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have seen statements like this about AAP students needing to be unable to function in a regular classroom, but where do they come from?

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/column/columntwicelearners.shtml

Twice exceptional would be a subset of AAP students: Those who qualify for advanced academic services but also have some sort of disability such as ADHD. But a child is not required to be twice exceptional (to have a learning disability as well as higher level thinking skills) to be in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally get that a few children need a more rigorous academic curriculum. The issue here is not the "giving" of what a child needs but the "giving" of "advanced academics" to a select few because they can not function in the general classroom. The label of "advanced academics" and the "giving" of a better education, in a "full immersion" program is absolutely wrong if the same is not given to the "good", "advanced academic student". Why should they get total immersion when a strait A, good student, could benefit as well?

Anonymous wrote:Gifted Teacher: what do you say to the straight A student every year, is in the same building as the Center, but is not in the AAP program. The child asks, "what more do I have to do?".


Straight As don't necessarily mean that a child needs the AAP classroom. I might ask the teacher if she sees my child exhibiting behaviors that indicate the need for the AAP. If she does not, I would reinforce with my child that different children need different types of classrooms and that she is where she needs to be to get the most out of her classes each day.

No one is advocating "giving" a better education to one child over another. The idea is for children to be taught in the way that is most effective for them. Not every child needs the AAP classroom in order to learn. I would say if a child is getting straight As in the regular classroom, than that class is a good match for that child's learning style.


You are right, no one is "advocating giving a better education to one child over the other" FCPS is just doing it! FCPS is labeling so many students who are "in need of" an alternative learning environment as "advanced" and "giving" them a better education by, a great AAP teacher once said, "going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning) expanding on the curriculum".

How could any logical person really believe that a "straight A", all around "good student" in a "regular" classroom is not capable of, or would not benefit from, this type of curriculum?
Why is it that students who "cannot function" in the standard classroom are being given this better education while truly "smart" kids are not?

So a student who cannot function in the "standard" classroom is capable of "going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning) expanding on the curriculum"? Rrrr...ight.

This is what gets parents so outraged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh my god. You all are so "entitled" you can not see "past your nose". I understand it is "all about you" and "your children" but, contrary to your belief, my argument is for all children not just "mine".

My question to this "great" teacher is, Is a smart, high achiever, all around good (kind to others, no bad behavior, participates, is attentive), never has to "study", totally frustrated with the process of teachers "repeating" the same information "over and over"(so others in class can "get it"), "straight A" student, not worthy of having "advanced academics"?

Why would a miss behaved, refusal to do work, straight A student be given "advanced academics" over a truly good "academically advanced - straight A" student?

I totally get that a few children need a more rigorous academic curriculum. The issue here is not the "giving" of what a child needs but the "giving" of "advanced academics" to a select few because they can not function in the general classroom. The label of "advanced academics" and the "giving" of a better education, in a "full immersion" program is absolutely wrong if the same is not given to the "good", "advanced academic student". Why should they get total immersion when a strait A, good student, could benefit as well?

Possibly the answer is a FCPS "alternative learning center" school for these children. Is this FCPS's way of leveling the "school" achievement scores? Whatever the reason it is truly flawed and really a "joke of a program".

With apologies to The Princess Bride: You keep using the quotation marks. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have seen statements like this about AAP students needing to be unable to function in a regular classroom, but where do they come from?

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/column/columntwicelearners.shtml

Twice exceptional would be a subset of AAP students: Those who qualify for advanced academic services but also have some sort of disability such as ADHD. But a child is not required to be twice exceptional (to have a learning disability as well as higher level thinking skills) to be in AAP.

ITA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally get that a few children need a more rigorous academic curriculum. The issue here is not the "giving" of what a child needs but the "giving" of "advanced academics" to a select few because they can not function in the general classroom. The label of "advanced academics" and the "giving" of a better education, in a "full immersion" program is absolutely wrong if the same is not given to the "good", "advanced academic student". Why should they get total immersion when a strait A, good student, could benefit as well?

Anonymous wrote:Gifted Teacher: what do you say to the straight A student every year, is in the same building as the Center, but is not in the AAP program. The child asks, "what more do I have to do?".


Straight As don't necessarily mean that a child needs the AAP classroom. I might ask the teacher if she sees my child exhibiting behaviors that indicate the need for the AAP. If she does not, I would reinforce with my child that different children need different types of classrooms and that she is where she needs to be to get the most out of her classes each day.

No one is advocating "giving" a better education to one child over another. The idea is for children to be taught in the way that is most effective for them. Not every child needs the AAP classroom in order to learn. I would say if a child is getting straight As in the regular classroom, than that class is a good match for that child's learning style.


You are right, no one is "advocating giving a better education to one child over the other" FCPS is just doing it! FCPS is labeling so many students who are "in need of" an alternative learning environment as "advanced" and "giving" them a better education by, a great AAP teacher once said, "going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning) expanding on the curriculum".

How could any logical person really believe that a "straight A", all around "good student" in a "regular" classroom is not capable of, or would not benefit from, this type of curriculum?
Why is it that students who "cannot function" in the standard classroom are being given this better education while truly "smart" kids are not?

So a student who cannot function in the "standard" classroom is capable of "going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning) expanding on the curriculum"? Rrrr...ight.

This is what gets parents so outraged.

Again, AAP is not meant to be a program specifically for children with learning disabilities, although they may be included in AAP. Did you see the post linked below from another thread (first post on page, posted at 12:31)? Not a single "behavior problem" child in the group. If there is ADHD in the group, it may be of an inattentive type (child being unfocused and disorganized), so the parent who posted may not be aware of it. Of course if children were of equal abilities, except the ones with behavior problems as their only difference got better opportunities for higher level learning, no one would think that was okay. I do not see anything at all to indicate that this is the case. If anything the selection process favors the well behaved child.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/357428.page

It sounds like you already appealed for your child. Did you submit a WISC? I wonder if you may have conveyed frustration with the AAP selection process like in your posts here? I mean this in a helpful way. If you included a lot of verbiage with the appeal that was negative and critical about the AAP selection process, that may not have helped your child's chances. You should be able to do a parent referral this year. I saw on another thread that the deadline seems to have been extended to February 7. Best wishes to you and your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh my god. You all are so "entitled" you can not see "past your nose". I understand it is "all about you" and "your children" but, contrary to your belief, my argument is for all children not just "mine".

My question to this "great" teacher is, Is a smart, high achiever, all around good (kind to others, no bad behavior, participates, is attentive), never has to "study", totally frustrated with the process of teachers "repeating" the same information "over and over"(so others in class can "get it"), "straight A" student, not worthy of having "advanced academics"?

Why would a miss behaved, refusal to do work, straight A student be given "advanced academics" over a truly good "academically advanced - straight A" student?

I totally get that a few children need a more rigorous academic curriculum. The issue here is not the "giving" of what a child needs but the "giving" of "advanced academics" to a select few because they can not function in the general classroom. The label of "advanced academics" and the "giving" of a better education, in a "full immersion" program is absolutely wrong if the same is not given to the "good", "advanced academic student". Why should they get total immersion when a strait A, good student, could benefit as well?

Possibly the answer is a FCPS "alternative learning center" school for these children. Is this FCPS's way of leveling the "school" achievement scores? Whatever the reason it is truly flawed and really a "joke of a program".

With apologies to The Princess Bride: You keep using the quotation marks. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.

“Smartass is a latent idiot.” Who cares.

[Anonymous]

Again, AAP is not meant to be a program specifically for children with learning disabilities, although they may be included in AAP. Did you see the post linked below from another thread (first post on page, posted at 12:31)? Not a single "behavior problem" child in the group. If there is ADHD in the group, it may be of an inattentive type (child being unfocused and disorganized), so the parent who posted may not be aware of it. Of course if children were of equal abilities, except the ones with behavior problems as their only difference got better opportunities for higher level learning, no one would think that was okay. I do not see anything at all to indicate that this is the case. If anything the selection process favors the well behaved child.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/357428.page

It sounds like you already appealed for your child. Did you submit a WISC? I wonder if you may have conveyed frustration with the AAP selection process like in your posts here? I mean this in a helpful way. If you included a lot of verbiage with the appeal that was negative and critical about the AAP selection process, that may not have helped your child's chances. You should be able to do a parent referral this year. I saw on another thread that the deadline seems to have been extended to February 7. Best wishes to you and your child.

OK whatever, so be it, you all are relentlessly "entitled". However, based on my parental observations, it is very clear the majority of the children in the AAP program have behavior problems and cannot function in the standard classroom environment or socially for that matter. Honestly it is probably best for these students to be at a separate school for their benefit but in an advanced academic program, NO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally get that a few children need a more rigorous academic curriculum. The issue here is not the "giving" of what a child needs but the "giving" of "advanced academics" to a select few because they can not function in the general classroom. The label of "advanced academics" and the "giving" of a better education, in a "full immersion" program is absolutely wrong if the same is not given to the "good", "advanced academic student". Why should they get total immersion when a strait A, good student, could benefit as well?

Anonymous wrote:Gifted Teacher: what do you say to the straight A student every year, is in the same building as the Center, but is not in the AAP program. The child asks, "what more do I have to do?".


Straight As don't necessarily mean that a child needs the AAP classroom. I might ask the teacher if she sees my child exhibiting behaviors that indicate the need for the AAP. If she does not, I would reinforce with my child that different children need different types of classrooms and that she is where she needs to be to get the most out of her classes each day.

No one is advocating "giving" a better education to one child over another. The idea is for children to be taught in the way that is most effective for them. Not every child needs the AAP classroom in order to learn. I would say if a child is getting straight As in the regular classroom, than that class is a good match for that child's learning style.


You are right, no one is "advocating giving a better education to one child over the other" FCPS is just doing it! FCPS is labeling so many students who are "in need of" an alternative learning environment as "advanced" and "giving" them a better education by, a great AAP teacher once said, "going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning) expanding on the curriculum".

How could any logical person really believe that a "straight A", all around "good student" in a "regular" classroom is not capable of, or would not benefit from, this type of curriculum?
Why is it that students who "cannot function" in the standard classroom are being given this better education while truly "smart" kids are not?

So a student who cannot function in the "standard" classroom is capable of "going more in depth, focusing on higher level thinking skills, and using strategies/programs such as Habits of Mind, Socratic Seminar, DBQ (document based questioning) expanding on the curriculum"? Rrrr...ight.

This is what gets parents so outraged.

Couldn't agree with you more. The majority of kids in Gen Ed are virtually identical to the majority in AAP. With so little to distinguish them, why are some strategies and programs (listed above) not available to all? It's insane. FCPS is greatly underestimating the abilities of the kids in Gen Ed.

[Anonymous]

Couldn't agree with you more. The majority of kids in Gen Ed are virtually identical to the majority in AAP. With so little to distinguish them, why are some strategies and programs (listed above) not available to all? It's insane. FCPS is greatly underestimating the abilities of the kids in Gen Ed.

Are they underestimating them or is it that they cannot justify the AAP program for the small amount of students that really need it so they have found a way to keep the program in existence by accommodating a larger group of children who can not function in a normal classroom environment. Regardless of the reason to program is terribly off track.

[Anonymous]

OK whatever, so be it, you all are relentlessly "entitled". However, based on my parental observations, it is very clear the majority of the children in the AAP program have behavior problems and cannot function in the standard classroom environment or socially for that matter. Honestly it is probably best for these students to be at a separate school for their benefit but in an advanced academic program, NO.

I'm wondering how you are defining "entitled" in this context. I don't really see any evidence of entitlement in any of the above posts, but maybe I am using the word differently.

You have asked for information from people who have a background in education, so it sounds as though your background is not in education. Just as people who do not work in your field may not always understand everything about what you do for a living, can you see that you may not understand all the details of the educational system because your background is in a different subject area? It's possible that you don't know all the details about the situations of the students you are observing in the AAP class. The AAP classroom is for children whose needs cannot be met in the regular classroom, but that doesn't mean that they "cannot function in the regular classroom...." It is just that the AAP classroom is better suited to their learning needs.

As a parent, of course you love your child and want the best for your child. It is possible that the best fit for your child may be the regular classroom and there is not a thing wrong with that. I do think that the fact that your child is so successful (straight As, does all her work without help) in the regular classroom is a sign that that classroom is an excellent fit for her, and that is something to be happy about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


But I'm curious... why are AAP classes filled with relatively average kids and maybe a handful of these truly "gifted" students? Why is General Ed being depleted of smart-but-average kids in order to fill the AAP classes? Why isn't the bar set higher on the NNAT and CogAT so as to screen for only the gifted learners who actually need a different classroom environment? I understand FCPS is required to provide an appropriate learning environment for every student... but what about those students who are placed in AAP but are not "gifted" and do not require a specialized classroom? Why are FCPS taxpayers paying for this? And finally, why isn't General Ed being beefed up in order to meet the needs of those students who are fully capable of higher-level work? I would really like to know the answers to these questions, and I'm sure there are many other parents who would too. FCPS is getting away with catering to a bloated group of students (and their parents) while ignoring the students in General Ed. I can't even imagine why, especially during this severe budget crisis, demands for more centers and more AAP teachers are even entertained.

+10000 I could NOT AGREE MORE.

[Anonymous]

I always wonder when I see the (very frequent) type of post on this forum complaining that the AAP students and high achieving general education students are "identical" , "indistinguishable" etc. My question is - How in the world do you know they are identical or indistinguishable? From observing them on the playground? in the classroom? have you interviewed their parents? have you researched their screeening files? interviewed all of their teachers? have you seen and compared their test scores? Gifted kids don't necessarily go around spouting off theories of relativity. They are kids and generally act like kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


But I'm curious... why are AAP classes filled with relatively average kids and maybe a handful of these truly "gifted" students? Why is General Ed being depleted of smart-but-average kids in order to fill the AAP classes? Why isn't the bar set higher on the NNAT and CogAT so as to screen for only the gifted learners who actually need a different classroom environment? I understand FCPS is required to provide an appropriate learning environment for every student... but what about those students who are placed in AAP but are not "gifted" and do not require a specialized classroom? Why are FCPS taxpayers paying for this? And finally, why isn't General Ed being beefed up in order to meet the needs of those students who are fully capable of higher-level work? I would really like to know the answers to these questions, and I'm sure there are many other parents who would too. FCPS is getting away with catering to a bloated group of students (and their parents) while ignoring the students in General Ed. I can't even imagine why, especially during this severe budget crisis, demands for more centers and more AAP teachers are even entertained.

+10000 I could NOT AGREE MORE.

It has been discussed before on these boards that AAP adds minimal cost to educating this group of children (small additional cost for bussing). Regardless of program these same students need teachers and classrooms. AAP classes are often larger than gen ed classes from what I have seen, so AAP may be offering some cost savings by having more kids per teacher at some schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OK whatever, so be it, you all are relentlessly "entitled". However, based on my parental observations, it is very clear the majority of the children in the AAP program have behavior problems and cannot function in the standard classroom environment or socially for that matter. Honestly it is probably best for these students to be at a separate school for their benefit but in an advanced academic program, NO.

I'm wondering how you are defining "entitled" in this context. I don't really see any evidence of entitlement in any of the above posts, but maybe I am using the word differently.

You have asked for information from people who have a background in education, so it sounds as though your background is not in education. Just as people who do not work in your field may not always understand everything about what you do for a living, can you see that you may not understand all the details of the educational system because your background is in a different subject area? It's possible that you don't know all the details about the situations of the students you are observing in the AAP class. The AAP classroom is for children whose needs cannot be met in the regular classroom, but that doesn't mean that they "cannot function in the regular classroom...." It is just that the AAP classroom is better suited to their learning needs.

As a parent, of course you love your child and want the best for your child. It is possible that the best fit for your child may be the regular classroom and there is not a thing wrong with that. I do think that the fact that your child is so successful (straight As, does all her work without help) in the regular classroom is a sign that that classroom is an excellent fit for her, and that is something to be happy about.

Perhaps you think you know things that you don't and feel you have the right to make judgment as to my background or whether I even have children. You are entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you need to stop thinking that your child is "entitled" to an AAP program above others and start thinking "out of the box" to include the IB worldly thinking. FWIW, the consensus I gather from talking with parents of (believe it or not) AAP and non-AAP students and many educators is that the current program has lost its distinguished reputation for the "cream of the crop" and has become a place mostly to deal with students who are disruptive, obstinate, low achievers. Like it or not it is what it is and reputations both good and bad speak loudly.

Expecting FCPS Parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK whatever, so be it, you all are relentlessly "entitled". However, based on my parental observations, it is very clear the majority of the children in the AAP program have behavior problems and cannot function in the standard classroom environment or socially for that matter. Honestly it is probably best for these students to be at a separate school for their benefit but in an advanced academic program, NO.

I'm wondering how you are defining "entitled" in this context. I don't really see any evidence of entitlement in any of the above posts, but maybe I am using the word differently.

You have asked for information from people who have a background in education, so it sounds as though your background is not in education. Just as people who do not work in your field may not always understand everything about what you do for a living, can you see that you may not understand all the details of the educational system because your background is in a different subject area? It's possible that you don't know all the details about the situations of the students you are observing in the AAP class. The AAP classroom is for children whose needs cannot be met in the regular classroom, but that doesn't mean that they "cannot function in the regular classroom...." It is just that the AAP classroom is better suited to their learning needs.

As a parent, of course you love your child and want the best for your child. It is possible that the best fit for your child may be the regular classroom and there is not a thing wrong with that. I do think that the fact that your child is so successful (straight As, does all her work without help) in the regular classroom is a sign that that classroom is an excellent fit for her, and that is something to be happy about.

Perhaps you think you know things that you don't and feel you have the right to make judgment as to my background or whether I even have children. You are entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you need to stop thinking that your child is "entitled" to an AAP program above others and start thinking "out of the box" to include the IB worldly thinking. FWIW, the consensus I gather from talking with parents of (believe it or not) AAP and non-AAP students and many educators is that the current program has lost its distinguished reputation for the "cream of the crop" and has become a place mostly to deal with students who are disruptive, obstinate, low achievers. Like it or not it is what it is and reputations both good and bad speak loudly.

Expecting FCPS Parent

Awww, you're pregnant. That is why you are so emotional. We will be gentle with you