DME Kicks Off DCPS Boundary Review; Changes Expected for 2015-16 School Year

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I'll pull back the veil a little: my child attends one of the DCPS schools you probably lotteries to get your child out of. And it's a pity. The school is great but could use more committed middle class familoes .

We entered a lottery for a charter school over 10 years ago. I suspect that even you would not have sent your child to your school then. I suspect I know which school to which you refer and if we were just starting out today we would be eager to attend the pre-k 3 program with an eye to staying at the school afterwards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Crestwood, Shepherd Park and 16th Street Heights and Mount Pleasant (kids going to Bancroft) will get booted out of Deal/Wilson feeder patterns. It will help to bring higher SES kids to lower performing schools and create the sort of mix that helps to level the playing field for all of DC's kids. The more SES kids are in these "lower performing" schools, the more people with influence will feel obligated to step in and make sure resources are being provided to kids that have long done without. This is a win-win for people who truly care about the disserved in the greater DC community.

But what will be done to create a reason these families want to send their children to this new MS? You cannot force people with choices to send their children to an "lower performing" school. People with choices vote with their feet.

Also, how do you deal with the fallout that such changes will remove diversity from the highest performing non-application schools in DC, even if there are higher SES families mixed with the diversity?

[Anonymous]

I really think the Commission/Mayor need to speak clearly and quickly as to how the grandfathering would work. It would relieve anxiety for a lot of folks. There is no need to wait a year to do this. They could clarify the policy tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Crestwood, Shepherd Park and 16th Street Heights and Mount Pleasant (kids going to Bancroft) will get booted out of Deal/Wilson feeder patterns. It will help to bring higher SES kids to lower performing schools and create the sort of mix that helps to level the playing field for all of DC's kids. The more SES kids are in these "lower performing" schools, the more people with influence will feel obligated to step in and make sure resources are being provided to kids that have long done without. This is a win-win for people who truly care about the disserved in the greater DC community.

But what will be done to create a reason these families want to send their children to this new MS? You cannot force people with choices to send their children to an "lower performing" school. People with choices vote with their feet.

Also, how do you deal with the fallout that such changes will remove diversity from the highest performing non-application schools in DC, even if there are higher SES families mixed with the diversity?

I don't think there has to be a reason. I think the redistricting will be the reason. There won't be a choice. Not everyone can afford to up and move, nor would many want to. I, for one, am happy and vested into my community. I'm also happy to make a contribution by giving my IBs school the "boost" that high SES brings. I think alot of people to talk the talk should walk the walk and put their money where there mouth is. You can't have threads and threads on here of people talking about leveling the playing field and giving disadvantaged kids a real shot and then run for the hills when Deal/Wilson in no longer a part of the discussion. Also, for the poster who talks about the situation with Crestwood, I think they aren't taking into consideration what will happen when more families move to Crestwood, when the number of kids shuffled over to Deal is actually a considerable number. Today there may only be a handful of kids. When the boomers start to get to middle school age, that number will actually be considerable. What an awesome opportunity for a large number of advantaged kids to be a part of growing a school community EofP. It has to happen some time and with all of the discussion of boundary changes, the time has come. Right now we should focus on reducing panic and fear- the root of a lot of the problem.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Also, for the poster who talks about the situation with Crestwood, I think they aren't taking into consideration what will happen when more families move to Crestwood, when the number of kids shuffled over to Deal is actually a considerable number. Today there may only be a handful of kids. When the boomers start to get to middle school age, that number will actually be considerable. What an awesome opportunity for a large number of advantaged kids to be a part of growing a school community EofP. It has to happen some time and with all of the discussion of boundary changes, the time has come. Right now we should focus on reducing panic and fear- the root of a lot of the problem.

This is a good point, but I don't think you will have a large influx of kids until the elementary school situation is more attractive. If Powell or West developed to the caliber of a Eaton or Hearst, then I could see you being correct. But, short of that, the school situation will present an obstacle to families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Crestwood, Shepherd Park and 16th Street Heights and Mount Pleasant (kids going to Bancroft) will get booted out of Deal/Wilson feeder patterns. It will help to bring higher SES kids to lower performing schools and create the sort of mix that helps to level the playing field for all of DC's kids. The more SES kids are in these "lower performing" schools, the more people with influence will feel obligated to step in and make sure resources are being provided to kids that have long done without. This is a win-win for people who truly care about the disserved in the greater DC community.

But what will be done to create a reason these families want to send their children to this new MS? You cannot force people with choices to send their children to an "lower performing" school. People with choices vote with their feet.

Also, how do you deal with the fallout that such changes will remove diversity from the highest performing non-application schools in DC, even if there are higher SES families mixed with the diversity?

I don't think there has to be a reason. I think the redistricting will be the reason. There won't be a choice. Not everyone can afford to up and move, nor would many want to. I, for one, am happy and vested into my community. I'm also happy to make a contribution by giving my IBs school the "boost" that high SES brings. I think alot of people to talk the talk should walk the walk and put their money where there mouth is. You can't have threads and threads on here of people talking about leveling the playing field and giving disadvantaged kids a real shot and then run for the hills when Deal/Wilson in no longer a part of the discussion. Also, for the poster who talks about the situation with Crestwood, I think they aren't taking into consideration what will happen when more families move to Crestwood, when the number of kids shuffled over to Deal is actually a considerable number. Today there may only be a handful of kids. When the boomers start to get to middle school age, that number will actually be considerable. What an awesome opportunity for a large number of advantaged kids to be a part of growing a school community EofP. It has to happen some time and with all of the discussion of boundary changes, the time has come. Right now we should focus on reducing panic and fear- the root of a lot of the problem.

If you want to pretend "people with choices" don't actually have choices you can live in your fantasy world, but do not pretend you are answering the question I asked.

If my choice is between sending my children to a low performing middle school or move, I will move. You cannot stop me and I am not alone. That was my plan when I moved to my house in a JKLM that is IB for Deal. In the interim, Deal has become a viable option and that changed our mind. So, what is going to happen to make this a school I want to my child to attend, and helping out the greater good does not fly as a reason.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll pull back the veil a little: my child attends one of the DCPS schools you probably lotteries to get your child out of. And it's a pity. The school is great but could use more committed middle class familoes .

We entered a lottery for a charter school over 10 years ago. I suspect that even you would not have sent your child to your school then. I suspect I know which school to which you refer and if we were just starting out today we would be eager to attend the pre-k 3 program with an eye to staying at the school afterwards.

I totally get you and might have done the same in your place. People who are entering the lottery this year, who did it 10 years ago, who will in 10 years are all part of this. I want to fan the flames on something that is just getting going. You want to not lose a good thing. Neither of these are irrational perspectives.

The truth is that there is going to be some pain and I think much of the pain will come along the fault lines of class. In an underattended system, it didn't matter much whether people with more clout got to have their kids shifted over to be with kids "with whom they would be more comfortable." In a growing system, people want both to see improvement across the system as well as individual opportunities for their families increase.

I think the school system, and the City in general, will work much better without more class integration. I think we can tolerate it more now than we have in the past. There is an entire swath in the middle of the City in Wards 1, 4, 5 and 6 that can integrate to a much higher degree.

And we can't have a system that says well (mad libs for elementary school) and then we'll get into Deal then Walls or Wilson and go on to college. That is not a system, and it's clearly become unsupportable and sadly ridiculous, with Wilson entirely full but Coolidge nearly empty when both are drawing from much of the same area. If Coolidge got everyone in DCPS north of Military Road and people couldn't jump to Wilson, wouldn't that make a world of difference almost immediately?

I want people to have the guts to make this City work and to get beyond perceptions and little self-conscious boundaries they have drawn around their lives. And yes, to join me at neighborhood schools they feel are beneath them that turn out to be doing very good things, if people would just check them out with open minds.

Also, let me just say I'm sorry about the negative tone on some of this, anonymity can lead to some harshness unnecessarily because I feel no need to smooth off what I say or say it more clearly/less offensively.

[Anonymous]

I live EofP in a "hot" neighborhood with terrible schools. That hasn't stopped people with kids from moving in. We're the people who post about the anxieties we have worrying about the lottery etc... So, I think families will still go to Crestwood, consistent with the pattern of people moving into the city. If that comes to bare, you would have large numbers of kids in Crestwood- enough to shake a stick at. Those kids, presuming their parents can afford the high cost of Crestwood, would be the high SES kids that can make a difference EofP. That's what's needed. I don't think a lot of people signed up to be pioneers in this regard, but it's reality. And I don't think it's such a big deal. A lot of the ranting on here is truly fear based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Crestwood, Shepherd Park and 16th Street Heights and Mount Pleasant (kids going to Bancroft) will get booted out of Deal/Wilson feeder patterns. It will help to bring higher SES kids to lower performing schools and create the sort of mix that helps to level the playing field for all of DC's kids. The more SES kids are in these "lower performing" schools, the more people with influence will feel obligated to step in and make sure resources are being provided to kids that have long done without. This is a win-win for people who truly care about the disserved in the greater DC community.

But what will be done to create a reason these families want to send their children to this new MS? You cannot force people with choices to send their children to an "lower performing" school. People with choices vote with their feet.

Also, how do you deal with the fallout that such changes will remove diversity from the highest performing non-application schools in DC, even if there are higher SES families mixed with the diversity?

I don't think there has to be a reason. I think the redistricting will be the reason. There won't be a choice. Not everyone can afford to up and move, nor would many want to. I, for one, am happy and vested into my community. I'm also happy to make a contribution by giving my IBs school the "boost" that high SES brings. I think alot of people to talk the talk should walk the walk and put their money where there mouth is. You can't have threads and threads on here of people talking about leveling the playing field and giving disadvantaged kids a real shot and then run for the hills when Deal/Wilson in no longer a part of the discussion. Also, for the poster who talks about the situation with Crestwood, I think they aren't taking into consideration what will happen when more families move to Crestwood, when the number of kids shuffled over to Deal is actually a considerable number. Today there may only be a handful of kids. When the boomers start to get to middle school age, that number will actually be considerable. What an awesome opportunity for a large number of advantaged kids to be a part of growing a school community EofP. It has to happen some time and with all of the discussion of boundary changes, the time has come. Right now we should focus on reducing panic and fear- the root of a lot of the problem.

Wow! I must have stuck a chord with you. The very idea that you have to send your child to a school with black and brown people got you in a tizzy, didn't it. I think you're in a fantasy if you think that people in large numbers can up and move. Many can, many can't. The many that can't will be going EofP and guess what- making a school better. Horrible thought, I know.

If you want to pretend "people with choices" don't actually have choices you can live in your fantasy world, but do not pretend you are answering the question I asked.

If my choice is between sending my children to a low performing middle school or move, I will move. You cannot stop me and I am not alone. That was my plan when I moved to my house in a JKLM that is IB for Deal. In the interim, Deal has become a viable option and that changed our mind. So, what is going to happen to make this a school I want to my child to attend, and helping out the greater good does not fly as a reason.

[Anonymous]

I think these days a lot of middle class DC has moved here by choice and DC can stand to make them blink. If they want to vote with their feet in the face of greater integration, which they probably claim to support while tut-tutting their inbound school, let them try. Only so many "top-performing" (cough: high-SES) charters and private seats or reasonable-driving-distance suburban schools are available. Some forcing of integration onto DCPS will have a beneficial effect. Pull off the bandaid.

[Anonymous]

^^ This. Enough of the bandaid. Let's really make some changes in this community. Truth be told, the kids do fine. It's the parents that have the problems.

[Anonymous]

If you kicked MtP out of the Deal/Wilson feeder, then they effectively wouldn't have a high school---as CHEC is bilingual. Even if it weren't, MtP parents wouldn't send their kids there---the real winners in MtP/Crestwood/16th Street Hts/Shepard getting booted from Deal/Wilson would be the high schools of charter schools. If DCPS sends the high SES students of Crestwood and 16th Street to Roosevelt, Shepard to Coolidge and MtP to CHEC, DCPS will have ensured that not one of those high schools will have a critical mass enough of middle to upper middle class students to effectively change the character of the school. All of those parents would rather peel off to charters, private or move.

If DCPS wanted to get serious about creating a Wilson-quality east of the park high school---it would gerrymander the more expensive East of the park neighborhoods and have them all feed to one currently under-subscribed high school and then completely clean house in terms of administration, staff and faculty at the designated high school and start with a clean slate. Even then I'm not sure it would work---given the charter options of Latin, Basis, Cap City and EL Haynes---and also given the similarity the above-scenario has to what Rhee/Key parents tried to do with Hardy.

[Anonymous]

This conversation is seriously depressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If DCPS wanted to get serious about creating a Wilson-quality east of the park high school---it would gerrymander the more expensive East of the park neighborhoods and have them all feed to one currently under-subscribed high school and then completely clean house in terms of administration, staff and faculty at the designated high school and start with a clean slate.

I imagine Cardozo or Roosevelt would be realistic candidates for this. Cardozo just got redone and well - Roosevelt is about to get the Extreme Makeover: DCPS edition.

One interesting thing is that I think high-quality charters cannot grow enough in Ward 1/Ward 4. People can assemble groups and dream them up, sure, but they can't get buildings fast enough and therefore have to move to the Shaeds of the world.

That means more and more pressure to get people into the DCPS schools and make them over. Turn them into Eatons and Hearsts as was suggested above. And there is the intriguing possibility of McFarland remaining in DCPS hands in time to create a middle school that can serve families that don't want to feed into CHEC or stay in PS-8 schools.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Wow! I must have stuck a chord with you. The very idea that you have to send your child to a school with black and brown people got you in a tizzy, didn't it. I think you're in a fantasy if you think that people in large numbers can up and move. Many can, many can't. The many that can't will be going EofP and guess what- making a school better. Horrible thought, I know.

Talking down to white families east of the park about black and brown people is a good way to make yourself irrelevant. We wouldn't have moved east of the park if we fit the stereotype you are suggesting. But, in your eagerness to race-bait, you missed the previous poster's point. You can't force people with choices to do things. Take Crestwood for example. Do you know how many students have been "forced" to attend the inbound elementaries in the 15 years that I've been there? As far as I know, zero. Neighbors have moved, they have entered charters, they have gone OOB to DCPS schools, they have found "creative" ways of establishing residency in-boundary elsewhere, but they have not attended Powell or West. So, no. Simply redistricting is not enough. Redistrict to a sub-standard middle or high school and the you will again see zero attendance.

Here is the kind of idea that might work. This is sort of like a proposal that Matt Frumin had. He proposed moving Duke Ellington to Roosevelt. If Ellington could share resources with matter-of-right high school -- including some combined classes -- and the matter-of-right school could have strong differentiated learning, it would provide a lot of attraction. Understandably, the Ellington folks oppose this idea. But, just for the sake of discussion, this is the sort of thing that might work.