Can/should we sue? Listing lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much would you expect the litigation to cost? Maybe $50k? To maybe get you $50k? If the judge agreed or the other side settled. Or you could lose and then be out another $50k. Personally, I think you'd have a really hard time explaining to the judge how you viewed a home, liked it so much that you were willing to waive all contingencies and escalate the price, and now feel like the listing agent misrepresented something in the listing (on which as others have pointed out, there may be a very legitimate explanation, i.e., lack of intent on the LA's part).

You should be happy you got the house you wanted!

I'm quitting my job and becoming a listing agent.

I'm going to start listing every single house as 300,000 square feet. When someone says something to me, I'm going to call them a moron, ask them why they didn't measure the square footage with their eyes, and then say "well you're a fruitcake!" when they say, um no way that this is 300,000 square feet.

Would anyone be interested in purchasing a bridge in Brooklyn? Accepting offers now!

You totally should. Seems like you'd be a real pleasure to work with and totally understand the real estate business!

[Anonymous]

You can't trust the listing paperwork. YOU needed to measure each room and see if the room sizes will work for your family, fit your furniture etc. "Feeling" small is not a viable option for a lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

OP, unfortunately you aren't liking the answers but they are pretty consistent. There is little you can do.

You didn't get 25% less than the home is worth. You made an offer that apparently was worth it to you, based on your assessment of the house. A house is worth what someone will pay for it.

I'm unclear why you only spent 10min there. Did you go home and write up the contract that afternoon? Typically a realtor will say "We're accepting offers until such & such a time/date", often 5pm the day after the open house which means you had time to see the house, think about, maybe even go back the next day with your realtor.

We did an addition a number of years ago that increased our house from 1100 to 2200 square feet. The difference of 1,000sf when you're talking smaller houses is huge. It appears that perhaps your impressions of sizing are off if you werent visibly aware of the difference between 1800 and 2700sf? What's important, I would think, is not whether it's bigger or smaller than you thought in terms of measurements, but that it's big enough to meet the needs of you and your family. And, since you put in a very aggressive offer, it appears that you believed it was big enough.

I'm sorry you are upset. It always feels bad to be misled or to have miscommunicated. But, I think you have little recourse here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, unfortunately you aren't liking the answers but they are pretty consistent. There is little you can do.

You didn't get 25% less than the home is worth. You made an offer that apparently was worth it to you, based on your assessment of the house. A house is worth what someone will pay for it.

I'm unclear why you only spent 10min there. Did you go home and write up the contract that afternoon? Typically a realtor will say "We're accepting offers until such & such a time/date", often 5pm the day after the open house which means you had time to see the house, think about, maybe even go back the next day with your realtor.

We did an addition a number of years ago that increased our house from 1100 to 2200 square feet. The difference of 1,000sf when you're talking smaller houses is huge. It appears that perhaps your impressions of sizing are off if you werent visibly aware of the difference between 1800 and 2700sf? What's important, I would think, is not whether it's bigger or smaller than you thought in terms of measurements, but that it's big enough to meet the needs of you and your family. And, since you put in a very aggressive offer, it appears that you believed it was big enough.

I'm sorry you are upset. It always feels bad to be misled or to have miscommunicated. But, I think you have little recourse here.

OP Here. Thank you for a more thoughtful reply.

And yes, it is very easy to not see the difference of 225 square feet per floor if the house is divided up into many rooms. The floorplan isn't open or anything, so it's easy to assume that there is more room in other places, etc.

Yes, there were 5 bids on the house before we put in ours. I think we beat out 10 other bids.

I'm also really disturbed that the LA can say whatever he wants on the listing. Does this not bother anyone else?

[Anonymous]

Obviously they counted the basement as living space. Sort of a win win win. You get more living space. It isn't counted in your tax assessment- so lower taxes. You don't have to pay the painters as much and they will use less paint. You like the house.

[Anonymous]

OP - I think you should A) see what the appraisal says or perhaps get a third party to measure for you. At least it will ease your mind if the house actually is the size the listing states.

I don't know the answer about the certificate of occupancy although I am curious it too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much would you expect the litigation to cost? Maybe $50k? To maybe get you $50k? If the judge agreed or the other side settled. Or you could lose and then be out another $50k. Personally, I think you'd have a really hard time explaining to the judge how you viewed a home, liked it so much that you were willing to waive all contingencies and escalate the price, and now feel like the listing agent misrepresented something in the listing (on which as others have pointed out, there may be a very legitimate explanation, i.e., lack of intent on the LA's part).

You should be happy you got the house you wanted!

I'm quitting my job and becoming a listing agent.

I'm going to start listing every single house as 300,000 square feet. When someone says something to me, I'm going to call them a moron, ask them why they didn't measure the square footage with their eyes, and then say "well you're a fruitcake!" when they say, um no way that this is 300,000 square feet.

Would anyone be interested in purchasing a bridge in Brooklyn? Accepting offers now!

OP, if this is you, I am going to conclude that you are crazy and therefore probably misinterpreting what the listing agent, painters, and everyone else said.

How do you misinterpret anything? The square footage is listed incorrectly. And you seem to think it's my fault and the seller and LA shouldn't have to pay for lying on the listing.

I guess I must be crazy for relying on the MLS listing, what the LA said to me, and what the measurements of the house show. Yes that's it.

OP, you must be crazy or "special needs" when it comes to expressing yourself. Despite NUMEROUS people on this thread voicing their confusion about the actual facts here, you have refused to explain what actually happened. You're so convinced by your version of reality that you would rather rant than actually examine the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you're extremely helpful.

Does anyone have any real advice other than

(1) Listing agents can do whatever they want. They can misstate, lie, cheat, etc. It's YOUR fault for wanting accurate information.

(2) Most people go to viewings and get days to examine a house, measure it, etc. Those people who get a few minutes to check a house out, and then submit an offer that night are anomalies.

(3) Home Inspectors should carefully measure a house from top to bottom. Remember, the listing agent can do or say whatever the hell they want. They don't have any accountability.

(4) If you want a house bad enough, it should be okay to overpay 25% more than you thought you were getting. You should feel fortunate that you were invited to spend a million bucks on a house! Who cares if you're not getting what was advertised.

1) No, but it's my money, my name signed on the contract, so it's my responsibility to double check everything to make sure it's accurate.

2) We recently made a couple offers after only seeing houses for under 30m, as do most people in this area.

3) It's the home inspectors job to inspect integrity of the house and it's systems, not measure it. That's why on the inspections we did (one pre, one post offer), DH followed the inspector around to get info about the house while I went around the house with a measuinrg tape to make sure if it would work for us.

4)We set a top (escalation) price we could afford based on the information we gathered from our inspection or what we thought the house was worth. While we spent way less than a million bucks, it was a HUGE purchase for us. Our realor gave us the advice to set our top price based on what knew abou the house and what it might need done in the future, and we could afford to pay for the house "and not resent it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously they counted the basement as living space. Sort of a win win win. You get more living space. It isn't counted in your tax assessment- so lower taxes. You don't have to pay the painters as much and they will use less paint. You like the house.

This is all there is to it. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in contract for a gorgeous house. The sellers granted us access to get some quotes for painting. The house is listed as having 900 square feet per floor. The painters laughed when I told them the house is supposed to be 900 square feet per floor. They took a bunch of measurements and said the house was about 675 square feet per floor. My husband is furious about this and wants to sue the listing agent. We definitely love the house, but don't love that we're getting 25% less house for the price we're paying.

My realtor doesn't want to get involved, and basically says we should just look at the taxable living area. The taxable living area is listed as 1,800 square feet - something that my realtor claims does not include the basement (which would make the listing accurate). But since the house has a legal certificate of occupancy, I'm thinking it DOES in fact include the basement, making the 600 square feet per floor more accurate.

Has this happened to anyone before? Have you sued? Can anyone recommend any firms? We love the house, but are not thrilled that we're (probably overpaying) paying for something we are NOT getting.

In Fairfax County (and I think Arlington) basements are not counted in the sqft. Our house is listed in the taxes as having ~1900. (can't remember the exact number). We have about 800 sqft of finished basement with a legal bedroom and a walkout door to the outside. The county does not consider it as part of the sqft, they do however count the bedroom and the bathroom - so it is inconsistant.

If you were in a competitive bid situation, the price is competitive. I think you feel like you have been duped and have some buyer's remorse, so you are lashing out wherever you think you will get traction.

You say that you love the house. That should be the end of the story. IME, a well planned house can feel and live like a bigger house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in contract for a gorgeous house. The sellers granted us access to get some quotes for painting. The house is listed as having 900 square feet per floor. The painters laughed when I told them the house is supposed to be 900 square feet per floor. They took a bunch of measurements and said the house was about 675 square feet per floor. My husband is furious about this and wants to sue the listing agent. We definitely love the house, but don't love that we're getting 25% less house for the price we're paying.

My realtor doesn't want to get involved, and basically says we should just look at the taxable living area. The taxable living area is listed as 1,800 square feet - something that my realtor claims does not include the basement (which would make the listing accurate). But since the house has a legal certificate of occupancy, I'm thinking it DOES in fact include the basement, making the 600 square feet per floor more accurate.

Has this happened to anyone before? Have you sued? Can anyone recommend any firms? We love the house, but are not thrilled that we're (probably overpaying) paying for something we are NOT getting.

In Fairfax County (and I think Arlington) basements are not counted in the sqft. Our house is listed in the taxes as having ~1900. (can't remember the exact number). We have about 800 sqft of finished basement with a legal bedroom and a walkout door to the outside. The county does not consider it as part of the sqft, they do however count the bedroom and the bathroom - so it is inconsistant.

If you were in a competitive bid situation, the price is competitive. I think you feel like you have been duped and have some buyer's remorse, so you are lashing out wherever you think you will get traction.

You say that you love the house. That should be the end of the story. IME, a well planned house can feel and live like a bigger house.

This is a good point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously they counted the basement as living space. Sort of a win win win. You get more living space. It isn't counted in your tax assessment- so lower taxes. You don't have to pay the painters as much and they will use less paint. You like the house.

This is all there is to it. Move on.

This and RE listings routinely add the sqft of livable basement space. I thought most people understood that. And I'm not an agent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in contract for a gorgeous house. The sellers granted us access to get some quotes for painting. The house is listed as having 900 square feet per floor. The painters laughed when I told them the house is supposed to be 900 square feet per floor. They took a bunch of measurements and said the house was about 675 square feet per floor. My husband is furious about this and wants to sue the listing agent. We definitely love the house, but don't love that we're getting 25% less house for the price we're paying.

My realtor doesn't want to get involved, and basically says we should just look at the taxable living area. The taxable living area is listed as 1,800 square feet - something that my realtor claims does not include the basement (which would make the listing accurate). But since the house has a legal certificate of occupancy, I'm thinking it DOES in fact include the basement, making the 600 square feet per floor more accurate.

Has this happened to anyone before? Have you sued? Can anyone recommend any firms? We love the house, but are not thrilled that we're (probably overpaying) paying for something we are NOT getting.

In Fairfax County (and I think Arlington) basements are not counted in the sqft. Our house is listed in the taxes as having ~1900. (can't remember the exact number). We have about 800 sqft of finished basement with a legal bedroom and a walkout door to the outside. The county does not consider it as part of the sqft, they do however count the bedroom and the bathroom - so it is inconsistant.

If you were in a competitive bid situation, the price is competitive. I think you feel like you have been duped and have some buyer's remorse, so you are lashing out wherever you think you will get traction.

You say that you love the house. That should be the end of the story. IME, a well planned house can feel and live like a bigger house.

Yes, if you read your appraissal it clearly says something like "1800 above grade" nd 900 sq feet "below grade.

Our house is listed at 1500 sq feet but we have a 700 sq ft basement with a room, full bath and family room that walks out to a patio. We pay less taxes but still get the living space. No big deal and I don't feel duped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obviously they counted the basement as living space. Sort of a win win win. You get more living space. It isn't counted in your tax assessment- so lower taxes. You don't have to pay the painters as much and they will use less paint. You like the house.

This is all there is to it. Move on.

OP, I understand why you're upset... but there is nothing productive you can do. Go enjoy your new house!!!

[Anonymous]

If you do want out or some negotiating leverage, insist that the appraisal company measure themselves. Get a second appraisal, if needed. Then you have some finite #s to work with and potentially some leverage with the sellers if it doesn't appraise.