Deal and Hardy turnaround

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't find it amusing. It is sad, really.

+1. It is sad. If you review comments about "why I won't send my kids to Hardy," it all boils down to inbound parents not wanting their children to go to school with OOB kids (many of which are middle-high income families that simply don't live in Ward 3 or the Georgetown area of 2). They're afraid of a big boogey-man that does not exist outside of their small-minded perceptions.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that's fair. It's not the middle-high families from the Hill, Crestwood, etc. that scare off the IB families at Hardy. It's the kind of stories that earlier posters have told, about teachers and students getting away with intolerable behavior. What I wonder is why this behavior is not equally intolerable to OOB families at Hardy, particularly the high-SES ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that's fair. It's not the middle-high families from the Hill, Crestwood, etc. that scare off the IB families at Hardy. It's the kind of stories that earlier posters have told, about teachers and students getting away with intolerable behavior. What I wonder is why this behavior is not equally intolerable to OOB families at Hardy, particularly the high-SES ones.

You're assuming that the people with the negative commentary are correct. There are many who refute these stories and have offered up stories of their good experiences at Hardy. Why is it that you choose to take the negative posts as fact?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that's fair. It's not the middle-high families from the Hill, Crestwood, etc. that scare off the IB families at Hardy. It's the kind of stories that earlier posters have told, about teachers and students getting away with intolerable behavior. What I wonder is why this behavior is not equally intolerable to OOB families at Hardy, particularly the high-SES ones.

You're assuming that the people with the negative commentary are correct. There are many who refute these stories and have offered up stories of their good experiences at Hardy. Why is it that you choose to take the negative posts as fact?

Exactly. I posted earlier, asking the poster who said there was a teacher playing video games to share if s/he had spoken with Dr. Mary, the principal. No response yet.

As for foolish behavior by kids at a dismissal time-- welcome to middle school. Whether you're at Sidwell or at Hardy or Deal or Shaw Jr High, there will be foolishness simply because you have a large number of 12, 13 & 14 year olds and their hormones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think that's fair. It's not the middle-high families from the Hill, Crestwood, etc. that scare off the IB families at Hardy. It's the kind of stories that earlier posters have told, about teachers and students getting away with intolerable behavior. What I wonder is why this behavior is not equally intolerable to OOB families at Hardy, particularly the high-SES ones.

You're assuming that the people with the negative commentary are correct. There are many who refute these stories and have offered up stories of their good experiences at Hardy. Why is it that you choose to take the negative posts as fact?

Exactly. I posted earlier, asking the poster who said there was a teacher playing video games to share if s/he had spoken with Dr. Mary, the principal. No response yet.

As for foolish behavior by kids at a dismissal time-- welcome to middle school. Whether you're at Sidwell or at Hardy or Deal or Shaw Jr High, there will be foolishness simply because you have a large number of 12, 13 & 14 year olds and their hormones.

I disagree. I have frequent experience of dismissal behavior at both Deal and Oyster-Adams, though not Hardy, but between the two schools I do know, the difference is night and day. There's "foolishness" afterschool at Deal, of course, but it doesn't involve the profanity or prematurely sexual behavior I used to hear and see at Adams. And as it happened, those misbehaving at Adams were indeed OOB kids who had not gone through Oyster. There certainly does seem to be a behavior/SES correlation, and parents' concerns about behavior should indeed be addressed by the school.

Melissa Kim made a very big deal about what students were permitted to do and where they were permitted to go after leaving Deal. She was very conscious of this "obnoxious teenager" effect on perceptions of the school and potential students. This control was an excellent idea and ought to be copied by more middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Melissa Kim made a very big deal about what students were permitted to do and where they were permitted to go after leaving Deal. She was very conscious of this "obnoxious teenager" effect on perceptions of the school and potential students. This control was an excellent idea and ought to be copied by more middle schools.

Don't forget that when she started this a group of parents tried to have her fired and there were daily protests outside the school. Some details are here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/28/AR2007052801371.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Melissa Kim made a very big deal about what students were permitted to do and where they were permitted to go after leaving Deal. She was very conscious of this "obnoxious teenager" effect on perceptions of the school and potential students. This control was an excellent idea and ought to be copied by more middle schools.

Don't forget that when she started this a group of parents tried to have her fired and there were daily protests outside the school. Some details are here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/28/AR2007052801371.html

Wow. Well, we've also heard right here on DCUM that misbehaving boys have also been "unfairly" singled out for correction. But I firmly believe that this strict emphasis on enforcing behavior expectations is a huge part of Deal's success. It's what makes our kids safe and allows the real work of the school day to proceed. Not to mention, it looks a lot better than rudeness and disorder to prospective parents.

And schools that don't do this because they think it's not necessary or they worry it will be unpopular with squeaky parents... unfortunately it shows.

[Anonymous]

Yes she was accused of "unfairly"singling out kids. Ask the kids that went to Deal when she was principal. They loved her. I had no clue that principals and students could have such a relationship before Kim. There is bound to be some news to be made when you are "turning around" a school. She made it through the negative press and transformed a school and its community in the process. I wish more were willing to take the stand.

[Anonymous]

I chatted with a HS Principal at a Charter recently. I commented that I love seeing her outside each morning greeting the students. She commented that if the kids know you are watching and they know you are going to remind them not to do the little things - they will think twice about the bigger items.

I think this is what Principal at Deal has done.

[Anonymous]

Yes. She did. She greeted students every morning and afternoon. They knew she cared about the little things as well as the big ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test scores are not an impressionable bookmark. In that case then Pope is doing just fine, one-day at a time.

??

[Anonymous]

There's a 6 hour school day and you feel that your principal's self worth is because she's seen in the AM and PM greeting/goodbye students. What superficial state of mind do you have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a 6 hour school day and you feel that your principal's self worth is because she's seen in the AM and PM greeting/goodbye students. What superficial state of mind do you have?

I don't think the poster was suggesting that that is the only worthwhile thing the principal does, but rather that it is one element of a successful plan for running a school.

[Anonymous]

Hardy is not perfect and needs many improvements but it's not a hell hole either. Kids can be rowdy but there's lots of good teaching going on. Hardy's not as well established or creative as Deal and it lacks some variety of after-school activities. But my kid feels safe there, is learning and wants to go to school. I wish Hardy were slightly more like Deal in terms of the class offerings and extra curricular stuff but on the whole we're pretty happy.

someone asked why OOB parents might put up with something not as good as Deal...well the bottom line is there just aren't enough good middle school slots in the city in charters or DCPS...it's hard to find the 'right' spot for your child and you sometimes make compromises that you have to live with. Hardy may not be for everyone but if it actually got more neighborhood support it could be great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hardy is not perfect and needs many improvements but it's not a hell hole either. Kids can be rowdy but there's lots of good teaching going on. Hardy's not as well established or creative as Deal and it lacks some variety of after-school activities. But my kid feels safe there, is learning and wants to go to school. I wish Hardy were slightly more like Deal in terms of the class offerings and extra curricular stuff but on the whole we're pretty happy.

someone asked why OOB parents might put up with something not as good as Deal...well the bottom line is there just aren't enough good middle school slots in the city in charters or DCPS...it's hard to find the 'right' spot for your child and you sometimes make compromises that you have to live with. Hardy may not be for everyone but if it actually got more neighborhood support it could be great.

But Hardy could insist that the kids be less rowdy, especially afterschool. It would go a long way toward attracting neighborhood support.