Are we fools not to play lottery for our 3 y o?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
2. Nobody wants to take away your PS / PK program. We just want to level the playing field for those kids entering the system later on, which I think WILL happen.

There is a level playing field -- live within a neighborhood school boundary of your choosing and you will gain a K seat by right when you reach that point. Lots of families move over the summer to land inbounds for JKLM or other prefered elementary school options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that it is absolutely wonderful that enough progress has been made in elementary education in DC that people are even having this discussion. To those of us who have been here watching and helping this movement, congratulations. To those who are just joining in and seeing new things that they would like to improve, welcome and I hope you can create the options that you want, but please try to give a little bit of credit to what has been done so far recently before you bad mouth what is here.

Oh come on!

I'll give you a ton of credit for creating options that work for your family, but that's it. Do not have the nerve to think that the situation you've helped to create works for every family. And do not think that the "improvements" you've made to the system don't have unintended consequences to other families. There are some good in-bounds schools now (not near me) and there are more and more charters competing with them for other kids, presenting other options (none attractive to me). Just because YOU think it is better because you've created an option that works for YOU does not mean it is inherently better.

To my mind, there is little in this world more dysfunctional than this city's school and charter and OOB system. It would be easier to improve the local in-bounds when the current families don't have a free alternative there is more incentive to stick with and fix the local schools. I love that the charter system has done exactly what all of us public school boosters said it would do, leaving fewer engaged families willing to give the local school their elbow grease. So - thanks for that?

I don't get it PP - you and the parents of DC had YEARS to "give the public schools your elbow grease" - what did you achieve? Why would it have been better to allow the students of DC public schools to have almost NO good options for even longer, over at least setting up a system that gives hundreds (thousands?) of kids much better options?

You speak as if you just needed one more week of elbow grease to make the local schools perform. You had years. How long for you would have been acceptable to do nothing and create no alternatives to give that "elbow grease" a try?

Maybe you don't get it because you're incapable of looking outside your own frame of reference. Plus, you didn't pay attention to what I said at all. By the time I had kids, there were so many charters that the critical mass it might take to effect some change at the local was eviscerated. The horse was already out of the gate long before I came to the race. But, congrats on being part of a system that makes it better for a very specific group of people. I'm not trying to take that away from you. But don't congratulate yourself too hard on making things better for my family because if anything, you made things worse for me. To answer your question quite simply: the advantage of "allowing" the students of DC public schools to keep the choice of attending the in-bounds or pay for private means that parents have a vested interest in putting their efforts behind the local schools. If there is an alternative, parents take it. The problem is that the easy out isn't equally easy for some families as it is for others. Anyway, your message is really silly here. I had years to fix the schools? Do you fancy you're talking to the mayor of DC here, or a parent who recently came on the scene and is dealing with a situation that's different from yours?

The only thing I didn't understand is that you came into the DC school system after the charters were already up and running. But other than that, I do understand your point and you still haven't answered mine: looking back to before charters were up and running, DC public schools had had awful outcomes for YEARS. I ask you again, because you didn't answer, why is it better to have crappy outcomes for almost all kids in DCPS, than what we have now which is improved outcomes for a significant number of kids in DC public schools - many of them charters? For how long is it acceptable to you to NOT make major changes and wait for that local elbow grease to kick in and show results? Because whether you were here or not then, there were parents here, and I'm sure a lot of them were dedicated to trying to improve the schools and did their best. And the noticeable change didn't happen.

My question for you is based on exactly what you said about how now parents don't have the chance to put elbow grease into turning their local schools around: turning back the clock to before charters were a serious presence in DC, at that time how many years and generations of kids would it have been acceptable to you to sacrifice while waiting for this parent-led transformation of the schools to take place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. Nobody wants to take away your PS / PK program. We just want to level the playing field for those kids entering the system later on, which I think WILL happen.

There is a level playing field -- live within a neighborhood school boundary of your choosing and you will gain a K seat by right when you reach that point. Lots of families move over the summer to land inbounds for JKLM or other prefered elementary school options.

Exactly. And beyond that, you just have to live with how it is, since it's not going to change to support the parents who have options re: when their kids enter school. Free Pre-S and Pre-K was set up to help kids who were entering behind to enter K ready and thriving in their learning. NOT as a part time option for parents who could do private, could stay home, could do whatever. It's great that you have choices, but "levelling the playing field" is the most absurd concept ever in this conversation. The playing field has always been tilted in the favor of those with more money, more options, more school choices. Good for those who have it, but do not start talking "levelling the playing field" when that levelling (taking away from full schoolday slots to provide part time slots for those who don't NEED full day slots) is not levelling anything. It's further IMbalancing the playing field which - even with charters - is still pretty damn imbalanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Please take your head out of your ass. Seriously, just give it a try.

My family makes 60K a year. We are not upper class and I'm not sure we qualify as "middle class" in this city, though there are few cities where that logic would apply. Are you seriously that out of fucking touch with reality that you can't see that a family who might be able to save up and afford 2K per kid for two years for a private / coop preschool might not be able to pay 15K (rock bottom entry point by all accounts) for private for 12 more years? Holy shit. This is why people are accusing you of trolling. You are an upper middle class parent trying to school me on entitlement. LOL, lady! I am not GRATEFUL that these things are not income based, because I think they should be serving poor kids (Poorer than my family, in fact) and NOT providing a wealthy, entitled asswipe with free daycare. Goddamn, you are the dumbest person I've encountered on this site. Maybe you should go to school with your kids and learn to read?

You need to look step back and look at other Private options - as well as understand that at 60K you will get FA at school. Sacred Heart in Columbia Heights is bi-lingual and less than $6K a year Christian Family Montessori - is around $7K. This is will under the $15K you quoted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. Nobody wants to take away your PS / PK program. We just want to level the playing field for those kids entering the system later on, which I think WILL happen.

There is a level playing field -- live within a neighborhood school boundary of your choosing and you will gain a K seat by right when you reach that point. Lots of families move over the summer to land inbounds for JKLM or other prefered elementary school options.

Exactly. And beyond that, you just have to live with how it is, since it's not going to change to support the parents who have options re: when their kids enter school. Free Pre-S and Pre-K was set up to help kids who were entering behind to enter K ready and thriving in their learning. NOT as a part time option for parents who could do private, could stay home, could do whatever. It's great that you have choices, but "levelling the playing field" is the most absurd concept ever in this conversation. The playing field has always been tilted in the favor of those with more money, more options, more school choices. Good for those who have it, but do not start talking "levelling the playing field" when that levelling (taking away from full schoolday slots to provide part time slots for those who don't NEED full day slots) is not levelling anything. It's further IMbalancing the playing field which - even with charters - is still pretty damn imbalanced.

PP here -- I support the inbound by right, but if you're inbound and gain a coveted PK lottery seat you shouldn't feel guilty that you're depriving someone else who may need it more. You're under no obligation to use it full day or feel guilty about having it. DC offers near universal PK. By comparison MoCo working families can exceed the income limits for Md PK whether or not they can afford a private alternative.

[Anonymous]

1. I'd love it if you could provide a link to a good public or charter school in this city that begins at K.



I don't think there is. That doesn't mean there couldn't be if folks want to start such a school. I hear folks bat about a lot of stuff about it being inappropriate to start schooling earlier, so if you can provide real studies supporting, it seems the charter board would go along with it. I don't buy it myself-- my kids both started in PS3 and I love that the PS3 program has reinvigorated our neighborhood school. Thanks to the PS3 program, IB kids are now enrolling at the school all the way through the higher grades. Previously the school was losing IB parents to charters that provided PS3.

[Anonymous]

I didn't think this thread was about part-time slots at all. I thought it was about how annoying it was to have to put your child into the PS-3 lottery just to try to secure a spot for later. I also am a parent who could afford private care but is squatting on a lottery slot in order not to get shut out. I don't see how this really makes a level playing field.

Someone mentioned upthread about lotteries for PS3 and 4 only. I sort of vaguely remember that the DCPS lotteries for these years was for one year only but later went to the current "once in, in forever" model. Am I imagining that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad is that what's best for our kids takes a back seat to not being shut out by waiting. Your DC may not be ready right now, but if you don't apply and take a spot now you may be SOL later. We all lose in this game!

I disagree with using the term "sad". The option for free PK3 and PK4 is very rare in DC. You don't have to participate in the madness if you do not want. K is a good year to enter charters so if you opt to keep your child at home you have that right, but don't call it sad because its a daunting process if you wish to participate. All I see about preschool craziness in lotteries etc baffles me, it's more of an entitlement feeling from other parents rather than looking at it as a great benefit to utilize to offset expensive daycare and prepare our youngsters for Kinder (even of you're destined to a tier 2 option).

A troll has come a'lurkin'! So tired of these pretenders. Everyone knows that if you wait till K, you're likely screwed. Yes, a lot of people are taking advantage of free Pre-K and move on to other options at the K level. More DO NOT. The number of people on waitlists has reached into the hundreds. The economy is down. Translation- people aren't messing around and are sticking with their school from Prek going forward, so long as its not a total mess. Parents wanting an option are not ENTITLED. People trying to push that message are DEMONS FROM TROLL LAND, however!

OMG, thank you virtual stranger. PP from above and I swallowed the nasty troll bait hook, line, and sinker. The fact that I'm sick and nearly in tears about the school situation is bad enough, and then to have someone call me entitled because I want a choice? I'd be glad to just have a few spots at the schools set aside for students whose families did not use the preschool to allow competitive K entry. I think this change will happen gradually, but it seems unlikely before it's too late for my kids.

Thank you for talking me down from the ledge here. I allowed that poster to make me really angry and you are right - she's just baiting me.

I really don't think PP is a troll. Do you know what a troll is? Do you really think that someone could have a different opinion than you?

I would bet that if you took a poll of all parents in DC (not just DCUMland), you would find that the VAST majority are in favor of full day PS & PK.

It sounds like your real problem is that you are not happy with your local DCPS. If you lived virtually anywhere else in the country, you wouldn't have the myriad options available to you to get out of sending your kid to your local school. That's the positive in the DC school choice craziness. The drawback, maybe you might have to send your kid to school a little bit before you would like. It's a tradeoff.

Up until a few years ago, PS wasn't even available here. Can you imagine the outcry if they tried to get rid of it or scale it back?

PP and you aren't trolls. There's other names for you both much more fitting. To keep this somewhat cerebral though I'm sure your more accostomed to the gutter- I'll half step with a phrase I've seen in other threads- "rat troll". Do YOU know what THAT is? Since the high road doesn't work with you gutter lurkers and you're hell bent scurrying around on DCUM- let's get to it. This is more for the benefit of other readers since the intelligence you're working with is either nil, you're that insensitive or something else is array. Whatever! Parents in the District are entitled to a high quality education where we will in the city. Also entitled to choose exactly where we want to live. The city's mismanagement doesn't preclude these rights. We pay taxes and there's something called the Bill of Rights. Read it. Never mind- you wouldn't understand it! The city chose to make a system that has resulted in families having to choose between the welfare of their kids and EVER getting into a decent school. This is wrong. You DCPS and WTU cronies should be ashamed of yourselves for pressing the agenda like it's legit. How about you try to fix the system. Not grind your axes with innocent parents who simply want choice.

Actually, the Bill of Rights (and the rest of the Constitution) doesn't say anything about the right to a public education, much less a free, quality education at the school of your choosing at an age that you deem appropriate. Here's a link so you can read up: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

Given your apparent ignorance, I think your kid could probably benefit from all the extra schooling s/he can get.

Also, what is a rat troll? And what do you mean by "something else is array"? That doesn't make any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. Nobody wants to take away your PS / PK program. We just want to level the playing field for those kids entering the system later on, which I think WILL happen.

There is a level playing field -- live within a neighborhood school boundary of your choosing and you will gain a K seat by right when you reach that point. Lots of families move over the summer to land inbounds for JKLM or other prefered elementary school options.

Incorrect. I can't afford to move. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that it is absolutely wonderful that enough progress has been made in elementary education in DC that people are even having this discussion. To those of us who have been here watching and helping this movement, congratulations. To those who are just joining in and seeing new things that they would like to improve, welcome and I hope you can create the options that you want, but please try to give a little bit of credit to what has been done so far recently before you bad mouth what is here.

Oh come on!

I'll give you a ton of credit for creating options that work for your family, but that's it. Do not have the nerve to think that the situation you've helped to create works for every family. And do not think that the "improvements" you've made to the system don't have unintended consequences to other families. There are some good in-bounds schools now (not near me) and there are more and more charters competing with them for other kids, presenting other options (none attractive to me). Just because YOU think it is better because you've created an option that works for YOU does not mean it is inherently better.

To my mind, there is little in this world more dysfunctional than this city's school and charter and OOB system. It would be easier to improve the local in-bounds when the current families don't have a free alternative there is more incentive to stick with and fix the local schools. I love that the charter system has done exactly what all of us public school boosters said it would do, leaving fewer engaged families willing to give the local school their elbow grease. So - thanks for that?

I don't get it PP - you and the parents of DC had YEARS to "give the public schools your elbow grease" - what did you achieve? Why would it have been better to allow the students of DC public schools to have almost NO good options for even longer, over at least setting up a system that gives hundreds (thousands?) of kids much better options?

You speak as if you just needed one more week of elbow grease to make the local schools perform. You had years. How long for you would have been acceptable to do nothing and create no alternatives to give that "elbow grease" a try?

Maybe you don't get it because you're incapable of looking outside your own frame of reference. Plus, you didn't pay attention to what I said at all. By the time I had kids, there were so many charters that the critical mass it might take to effect some change at the local was eviscerated. The horse was already out of the gate long before I came to the race. But, congrats on being part of a system that makes it better for a very specific group of people. I'm not trying to take that away from you. But don't congratulate yourself too hard on making things better for my family because if anything, you made things worse for me. To answer your question quite simply: the advantage of "allowing" the students of DC public schools to keep the choice of attending the in-bounds or pay for private means that parents have a vested interest in putting their efforts behind the local schools. If there is an alternative, parents take it. The problem is that the easy out isn't equally easy for some families as it is for others. Anyway, your message is really silly here. I had years to fix the schools? Do you fancy you're talking to the mayor of DC here, or a parent who recently came on the scene and is dealing with a situation that's different from yours?

The only thing I didn't understand is that you came into the DC school system after the charters were already up and running. But other than that, I do understand your point and you still haven't answered mine: looking back to before charters were up and running, DC public schools had had awful outcomes for YEARS. I ask you again, because you didn't answer, why is it better to have crappy outcomes for almost all kids in DCPS, than what we have now which is improved outcomes for a significant number of kids in DC public schools - many of them charters? For how long is it acceptable to you to NOT make major changes and wait for that local elbow grease to kick in and show results? Because whether you were here or not then, there were parents here, and I'm sure a lot of them were dedicated to trying to improve the schools and did their best. And the noticeable change didn't happen.

My question for you is based on exactly what you said about how now parents don't have the chance to put elbow grease into turning their local schools around: turning back the clock to before charters were a serious presence in DC, at that time how many years and generations of kids would it have been acceptable to you to sacrifice while waiting for this parent-led transformation of the schools to take place?

You are ignoring the greater change that took place in Washington over the past 20 years or so, even more sharply in the past 15 years. Previously, the schools were awful and kids had no escape route. Then the city's fabric began slowly changing. You saw parents moving to neighborhoods they might not have considered previously, you saw gnetrification (for better and for worse) in many parts of the city. Many parents banded together to change their local, in-bounds school. 15 years ago, you could entice a number of parents into giving you help with the muscle / elbow grease part because it meant a lot to them. Now, it means less if 9 out of 10 people can just charter out (even if they are not fully satisfied with the results of doing that, and certainly aren't satisfied with the process). So it perpetuates deep dysfunction within the system. AND, it still does nothing for the kids at sinking schools whose parents don't have the time to stalk charter school lottery dates, the resources to drive them all over the city to a "decent" school, etc. So it just deepens the divide for some kids, while benefitting others. The thing is, those generations of kids? They're still being sacrificed. Don't kid yourself that you saved them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2. Nobody wants to take away your PS / PK program. We just want to level the playing field for those kids entering the system later on, which I think WILL happen.

There is a level playing field -- live within a neighborhood school boundary of your choosing and you will gain a K seat by right when you reach that point. Lots of families move over the summer to land inbounds for JKLM or other prefered elementary school options.

Exactly. And beyond that, you just have to live with how it is, since it's not going to change to support the parents who have options re: when their kids enter school. Free Pre-S and Pre-K was set up to help kids who were entering behind to enter K ready and thriving in their learning. NOT as a part time option for parents who could do private, could stay home, could do whatever. It's great that you have choices, but "levelling the playing field" is the most absurd concept ever in this conversation. The playing field has always been tilted in the favor of those with more money, more options, more school choices. Good for those who have it, but do not start talking "levelling the playing field" when that levelling (taking away from full schoolday slots to provide part time slots for those who don't NEED full day slots) is not levelling anything. It's further IMbalancing the playing field which - even with charters - is still pretty damn imbalanced.

Hi there. You are right about what the PS / PK system was set up to do. You're absolutely incorrect, however, about what the expansion accomplished and was designed to do. Head start is / was a program designed to give a leg up (literally: a head start) for disadvantaged kids, to level the playing field. However, middle class families, who were paying for daycare, observed that it was unfair to give a big portion of the city free childcare, and to give this childcare an educational component, thereby disadvantaging THEIR kids. So those families cried foul, and the city listened, and expanded PS and PK as a way to support working, mostly middle-class families. I'm not saying this was a bad thing. I think it's more complicated than that. I think there are a lot of working families who need the system to work exactly the way it works. But, it is a one-size-for-all solution, even if it does not fit, it's the model that is out there. And it's defended by saying, well, gee, PS and PK are not mandatory. However, when the availability of slots to enter a charter school at K or later is all but nonexistent, we are arguing that PS / PK becomes effectively mandatory for families, in the sense that if you don't get your foot in the door, you will be stuck at your in-bounds school when K (is mandatory) comes around. Oh, and good luck getting some improvement at your local school because, even if wealthier families are moving in, they're not bringing their wealth and involvement to the school unless the charters do not fit their needs. So the family like ours, who actually does NOT want to take advantage of the "free" services, has to anyway. Not only is this dysfunctional, it's wasteful. The govt. is literally forcing us to spend money we don't need it to spend - where that money really could be used for other, needier families. Wouldn't you like a system where I could keep my kids from competing with yours for the musical chairs of preschool lotteries if I didn't need to attend?

[Anonymous]

Also - note that many parents coming out on the other side of the tunnel on the lottery thing aren't saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it." They are either saying some variation of live with it, deal with it, or "I've got mine, it's your problem now." while pretending this has been a win for all kids. LOL. If they were telling the truth, they'd say "we are hanging on to a rope in an extremely dysfunctional system and I'm terrified of ANY movement that might jeopardize my tenuous foothold."

I think that's what all the irritation and ire from the charter school system boosters is coming from. They are terrified that we'll rock the boat.

Guess what? We're going to.

[Anonymous]

You should create a new charter that begins at K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also - note that many parents coming out on the other side of the tunnel on the lottery thing aren't saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it." They are either saying some variation of live with it, deal with it, or "I've got mine, it's your problem now." while pretending this has been a win for all kids. LOL. If they were telling the truth, they'd say "we are hanging on to a rope in an extremely dysfunctional system and I'm terrified of ANY movement that might jeopardize my tenuous foothold."
I think that's what all the irritation and ire from the charter school system boosters is coming from. They are terrified that we'll rock the boat.

Guess what? We're going to.

The bolded line is not how I feel at all. I have three children in an absolutely wonderful school, walking distance from my home. That's how I feel. I feel good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad is that what's best for our kids takes a back seat to not being shut out by waiting. Your DC may not be ready right now, but if you don't apply and take a spot now you may be SOL later. We all lose in this game!

I disagree with using the term "sad". The option for free PK3 and PK4 is very rare in DC. You don't have to participate in the madness if you do not want. K is a good year to enter charters so if you opt to keep your child at home you have that right, but don't call it sad because its a daunting process if you wish to participate. All I see about preschool craziness in lotteries etc baffles me, it's more of an entitlement feeling from other parents rather than looking at it as a great benefit to utilize to offset expensive daycare and prepare our youngsters for Kinder (even of you're destined to a tier 2 option).

A troll has come a'lurkin'! So tired of these pretenders. Everyone knows that if you wait till K, you're likely screwed. Yes, a lot of people are taking advantage of free Pre-K and move on to other options at the K level. More DO NOT. The number of people on waitlists has reached into the hundreds. The economy is down. Translation- people aren't messing around and are sticking with their school from Prek going forward, so long as its not a total mess. Parents wanting an option are not ENTITLED. People trying to push that message are DEMONS FROM TROLL LAND, however!

OMG, thank you virtual stranger. PP from above and I swallowed the nasty troll bait hook, line, and sinker. The fact that I'm sick and nearly in tears about the school situation is bad enough, and then to have someone call me entitled because I want a choice? I'd be glad to just have a few spots at the schools set aside for students whose families did not use the preschool to allow competitive K entry. I think this change will happen gradually, but it seems unlikely before it's too late for my kids.

Thank you for talking me down from the ledge here. I allowed that poster to make me really angry and you are right - she's just baiting me.

I really don't think PP is a troll. Do you know what a troll is? Do you really think that someone could have a different opinion than you?

I would bet that if you took a poll of all parents in DC (not just DCUMland), you would find that the VAST majority are in favor of full day PS & PK.

It sounds like your real problem is that you are not happy with your local DCPS. If you lived virtually anywhere else in the country, you wouldn't have the myriad options available to you to get out of sending your kid to your local school. That's the positive in the DC school choice craziness. The drawback, maybe you might have to send your kid to school a little bit before you would like. It's a tradeoff.

Up until a few years ago, PS wasn't even available here. Can you imagine the outcry if they tried to get rid of it or scale it back?

PP and you aren't trolls. There's other names for you both much more fitting. To keep this somewhat cerebral though I'm sure your more accostomed to the gutter- I'll half step with a phrase I've seen in other threads- "rat troll". Do YOU know what THAT is? Since the high road doesn't work with you gutter lurkers and you're hell bent scurrying around on DCUM- let's get to it. This is more for the benefit of other readers since the intelligence you're working with is either nil, you're that insensitive or something else is array. Whatever! Parents in the District are entitled to a high quality education where we will in the city. Also entitled to choose exactly where we want to live. The city's mismanagement doesn't preclude these rights. We pay taxes and there's something called the Bill of Rights. Read it. Never mind- you wouldn't understand it! The city chose to make a system that has resulted in families having to choose between the welfare of their kids and EVER getting into a decent school. This is wrong. You DCPS and WTU cronies should be ashamed of yourselves for pressing the agenda like it's legit. How about you try to fix the system. Not grind your axes with innocent parents who simply want choice.

Actually, the Bill of Rights (and the rest of the Constitution) doesn't say anything about the right to a public education, much less a free, quality education at the school of your choosing at an age that you deem appropriate. Here's a link so you can read up: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

Given your apparent ignorance, I think your kid could probably benefit from all the extra schooling s/he can get.

Also, what is a rat troll? And what do you mean by "something else is array"? That doesn't make any sense.

Thanks for cutting and pasting the Bill of Rights. My, you're a sharp one! DCPS- you've done a fine job. Your well-trained rat troll is now pressing the agenda that DC parents shouldn't expect decent public education. But, at least she can cut and paste from the Internet! If you plants get any dumber we're all in trouble!