Fundamentalist Christian Bible Churches

[Anonymous]

I used to drive by this behemoth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church every day when I lived in Houston. The Rockets used to play there and now it's a freaking church. Anyway, it's the exact sort of thing you're talking about-religion as a personal journey, light on the scripture and actual reading of religious texts, "how can this help ME?", etc.

If you've ever studied American history and in particular religion in American, you'll noticed this sort of "religion lite" trend pops up every few decades or so. People have done this all the way back to the Puritans, usually followed by a cycle of the opposite-strict, observant churches that focus on community and the Bible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people want to, as a rule, crap all over other people posts on DCUM. But I believe that the OP has made a valid and insightful observation. I've read similar perspectives on the Christian megachurches -- the full-service ones, some even with Starbucks and gyms in them. The focus, in these churches, is personal gratification. It's feel good "religion" from the folks that subscribe to the so called "prosperity gospel." The preachers are "cool" young dudes with highlighted hair and there's a lot of me, me, me there. There's not much concern for others. Most of the people attending are republicans (shocker!) and they only care about themselves. Seems kinda far away from Jesus to me.

OP here: YES, this is exactly what I was trying to say! the focus is all wrong in my opnion.

The focus is supposed to be about maturing your walk with the Lord.
Learning and growing in your understanding of the Word, maturing in your faith.
I am sure there are some large churches that don't do this and some that don't.
And the pp who wrote about what other people's opinon...needs to find out about it for themselves..not go on someone else's opinion.
What is the message of Jesus that you think they are getting away from?
Frankly, I don't believe that every Sunday you should be preaching about how to get saved....you have to mature as a Christian.
You open the doors of the church of course -- have people come for salvation...but that should not be the focus of every sermon.

How many of the weekly faithful have this capacity? Very, very, very few. People are inherently flawed and self preservation and advancement is key to most. We are civilized yet very much animal like.

[Anonymous]

I am the "live and let live" poster you refer to. I am an atheist and a liberal. I believe in gay marriage and I am pro-choice. Therefore, you are completely wrong in your assumption. I truly do have a live and let live attitude toward the fundamentalists because I disagree with them on everything, yet I support their right to have any sort of church they want as long as they don't break the law. They also have the right to try to get politicians elected that support their causes. Why are you so afraid of living in a free society where not everyone agrees with you? Being offended by the repellent views of others is the small price we pay for a free society. This idea that the christian right has an enormous influence over the future of country is silly. The 80's are over. Demographics are not on their side. If you are so worried, you should do the same thing that they do and try to get your own candidates elected. That is how a democratic republic works. Based on your incorrect assumptions about me, you seem to be as judgmental and close-minded as the fundamentalists are.

You are one naive athiest and liberal. If you haven't noticed, check out the people that the far/religious right is getting elected across the country, the state laws/amendments they are passing (voter ID, amendments against gay marriage, the raft of crap supported by the VA AG, just to name a few). Then please note the fact that in the past 10-15 years, this country has tacked significantly to the RIGHT, not the left. You may view this phenomenon as the dying gasp of a soon-to-be-irrelevant minority, and to a certain extent I agree, but that doesn't mean they can't do enormous damage that will be very difficult, if not impossibe, to undo. As for your last comment, yes, I'm intolerant of fundamentalists. Whatever. More importantly, there's just zero logical connection between "you made incorrect assumptions about me" and "you are judgmental and close-mided." It appears your abiding philosophy is "live and let live" because you don't have the intellectual firepower to critically understand, much less analyze the underlying issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people want to, as a rule, crap all over other people posts on DCUM. But I believe that the OP has made a valid and insightful observation. I've read similar perspectives on the Christian megachurches -- the full-service ones, some even with Starbucks and gyms in them. The focus, in these churches, is personal gratification. It's feel good "religion" from the folks that subscribe to the so called "prosperity gospel." The preachers are "cool" young dudes with highlighted hair and there's a lot of me, me, me there. There's not much concern for others. Most of the people attending are republicans (shocker!) and they only care about themselves. Seems kinda far away from Jesus to me.

You're so right! Get these people back in bars and on street corners where they belong!

At least they won't be hypocrites. No need to try to fool others and yourself with a false mask of goodness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am the "live and let live" poster you refer to. I am an atheist and a liberal. I believe in gay marriage and I am pro-choice. Therefore, you are completely wrong in your assumption. I truly do have a live and let live attitude toward the fundamentalists because I disagree with them on everything, yet I support their right to have any sort of church they want as long as they don't break the law. They also have the right to try to get politicians elected that support their causes. Why are you so afraid of living in a free society where not everyone agrees with you? Being offended by the repellent views of others is the small price we pay for a free society. This idea that the christian right has an enormous influence over the future of country is silly. The 80's are over. Demographics are not on their side. If you are so worried, you should do the same thing that they do and try to get your own candidates elected. That is how a democratic republic works. Based on your incorrect assumptions about me, you seem to be as judgmental and close-minded as the fundamentalists are.

You are one naive athiest and liberal. If you haven't noticed, check out the people that the far/religious right is getting elected across the country, the state laws/amendments they are passing (voter ID, amendments against gay marriage, the raft of crap supported by the VA AG, just to name a few). Then please note the fact that in the past 10-15 years, this country has tacked significantly to the RIGHT, not the left. You may view this phenomenon as the dying gasp of a soon-to-be-irrelevant minority, and to a certain extent I agree, but that doesn't mean they can't do enormous damage that will be very difficult, if not impossibe, to undo. As for your last comment, yes, I'm intolerant of fundamentalists. Whatever. More importantly, there's just zero logical connection between "you made incorrect assumptions about me" and "you are judgmental and close-mided." It appears your abiding philosophy is "live and let live" because you don't have the intellectual firepower to critically understand, much less analyze the underlying issues.

Thank you for agreeing with my main point that you are intolerant of people who do not share your beliefs. I agree that this country is right of center in general ( at least in comparison to my views) and it always has been. However, have you noticed that we have a Democratic majority in the Senate? A Democrat in the white house? From 2008-2010 the Dems also controlled the House as well? 8 states recognize same sex marriage with more states voting on initiatives in the fall? There is a long way to go on this and other issues, but this would have been unheard of 15 years ago. Just the fact that we elected a black man with a Muslim name would have been a fairy tale a decade ago. Relax. Let the people have their churches. You can criticize my lack of "intellectual firepower" all you want. I am sorry that you upset by the fact that you live in a country where everyone does not agree with you, but they are allowed to vote anyway. I think the best ideas ultimately win out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am the "live and let live" poster you refer to. I am an atheist and a liberal. I believe in gay marriage and I am pro-choice. Therefore, you are completely wrong in your assumption. I truly do have a live and let live attitude toward the fundamentalists because I disagree with them on everything, yet I support their right to have any sort of church they want as long as they don't break the law. They also have the right to try to get politicians elected that support their causes. Why are you so afraid of living in a free society where not everyone agrees with you? Being offended by the repellent views of others is the small price we pay for a free society. This idea that the christian right has an enormous influence over the future of country is silly. The 80's are over. Demographics are not on their side. If you are so worried, you should do the same thing that they do and try to get your own candidates elected. That is how a democratic republic works. Based on your incorrect assumptions about me, you seem to be as judgmental and close-minded as the fundamentalists are.

You are one naive athiest and liberal. If you haven't noticed, check out the people that the far/religious right is getting elected across the country, the state laws/amendments they are passing (voter ID, amendments against gay marriage, the raft of crap supported by the VA AG, just to name a few). Then please note the fact that in the past 10-15 years, this country has tacked significantly to the RIGHT, not the left. You may view this phenomenon as the dying gasp of a soon-to-be-irrelevant minority, and to a certain extent I agree, but that doesn't mean they can't do enormous damage that will be very difficult, if not impossibe, to undo. As for your last comment, yes, I'm intolerant of fundamentalists. Whatever. More importantly, there's just zero logical connection between "you made incorrect assumptions about me" and "you are judgmental and close-mided." It appears your abiding philosophy is "live and let live" because you don't have the intellectual firepower to critically understand, much less analyze the underlying issues.

You failed to point out that in the House, the body closest to the people (2 year terms, small districts, etc), Republicans have a 50 seat majority.

Thank you for agreeing with my main point that you are intolerant of people who do not share your beliefs. I agree that this country is right of center in general ( at least in comparison to my views) and it always has been. However, have you noticed that we have a Democratic majority in the Senate? A Democrat in the white house? From 2008-2010 the Dems also controlled the House as well? 8 states recognize same sex marriage with more states voting on initiatives in the fall? There is a long way to go on this and other issues, but this would have been unheard of 15 years ago. Just the fact that we elected a black man with a Muslim name would have been a fairy tale a decade ago. Relax. Let the people have their churches. You can criticize my lack of "intellectual firepower" all you want. I am sorry that you upset by the fact that you live in a country where everyone does not agree with you, but they are allowed to vote anyway. I think the best ideas ultimately win out.

[Anonymous]

Oops, I accidentally put my comment inside the quote.

"You failed to point out that in the House, the body closest to the people (2 year terms, small districts, etc), Republicans have a 50 seat majority."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oops, I accidentally put my comment inside the quote.

"You failed to point out that in the House, the body closest to the people (2 year terms, small districts, etc), Republicans have a 50 seat majority."

And that most states have dramatically moved right in recent years. But no worries, there are puppies, rainbows and unicorns on every corner. La, la la, la la!

To the naive liberal aethiest, I'm not upset that people who disagree with me get to vote, of course (and if a strawman is necessary for you to make your point, maybe you should rethink whether it's worth making). It's that there are so many of them that irritates me, and that their numbers are growing at an alarming rate.

Ezra Klein authored a great article for the New Yorker which makes the observation that with the exception of higher taxes on rich people, virtually all of the Obama administration's proposals started off as Republican policies a very short time ago (the most obvious being the individual mandate). Now, those same policies are viewed by mainstream Republicans as anathema to the very idea of democracy (and unconstitutional at that), and would likely bring the Republic to it's knees. Aside from the rampant hypocrisy this reveals, it makes the point pretty persuasively that the country is tacking to the right at an alarming rate. You can go on and on about "how the best ideas win out" - but that assumes an unlimited time horizon, which is pretty impractical (and again, naive). In the near to mid term, if you have a remotely progressive bone in your body and you're not concerned about the direction in which the copuntry is heading, at best you're not paying attention. And if you are payign attention - well, see previous comment on intellectual firepower, or lack of same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops, I accidentally put my comment inside the quote.

"You failed to point out that in the House, the body closest to the people (2 year terms, small districts, etc), Republicans have a 50 seat majority."

And that most states have dramatically moved right in recent years. But no worries, there are puppies, rainbows and unicorns on every corner. La, la la, la la!

[/b]To the naive liberal aethiest, I'm not upset that people who disagree with me get to vote, of course (and if a strawman is necessary for you to make your point, maybe you should rethink whether it's worth making). It's that there are so many of them that irritates me, and that their numbers are growing at an alarming rate. [b]

Ezra Klein authored a great article for the New Yorker which makes the observation that with the exception of higher taxes on rich people, virtually all of the Obama administration's proposals started off as Republican policies a very short time ago (the most obvious being the individual mandate). Now, those same policies are viewed by mainstream Republicans as anathema to the very idea of democracy (and unconstitutional at that), and would likely bring the Republic to it's knees. Aside from the rampant hypocrisy this reveals, it makes the point pretty persuasively that the country is tacking to the right at an alarming rate. You can go on and on about "how the best ideas win out" - but that assumes an unlimited time horizon, which is pretty impractical (and again, naive). In the near to mid term, if you have a remotely progressive bone in your body and you're not concerned about the direction in which the copuntry is heading, at best you're not paying attention. And if you are payign attention - well, see previous comment on intellectual firepower, or lack of same.

I usually enjoy a discussion with someone with an opposing point of view, because it forces me to analyze my position. In this case, however, you serve only to reinforce my opinions. Your main argument is repeatedly calling me naive or stating my lack of intellectual firepower. I think I will move on to someone with a better ability to make a sound argument without resorting to name calling or insulting my intellect. Good luck and I hope the church people will stop ruining your life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops, I accidentally put my comment inside the quote.

"You failed to point out that in the House, the body closest to the people (2 year terms, small districts, etc), Republicans have a 50 seat majority."

And that most states have dramatically moved right in recent years. But no worries, there are puppies, rainbows and unicorns on every corner. La, la la, la la!

[/b]To the naive liberal aethiest, I'm not upset that people who disagree with me get to vote, of course (and if a strawman is necessary for you to make your point, maybe you should rethink whether it's worth making). It's that there are so many of them that irritates me, and that their numbers are growing at an alarming rate. [b]

Ezra Klein authored a great article for the New Yorker which makes the observation that with the exception of higher taxes on rich people, virtually all of the Obama administration's proposals started off as Republican policies a very short time ago (the most obvious being the individual mandate). Now, those same policies are viewed by mainstream Republicans as anathema to the very idea of democracy (and unconstitutional at that), and would likely bring the Republic to it's knees. Aside from the rampant hypocrisy this reveals, it makes the point pretty persuasively that the country is tacking to the right at an alarming rate. You can go on and on about "how the best ideas win out" - but that assumes an unlimited time horizon, which is pretty impractical (and again, naive). In the near to mid term, if you have a remotely progressive bone in your body and you're not concerned about the direction in which the copuntry is heading, at best you're not paying attention. And if you are payign attention - well, see previous comment on intellectual firepower, or lack of same.

I usually enjoy a discussion with someone with an opposing point of view, because it forces me to analyze my position. In this case, however, you serve only to reinforce my opinions. Your main argument is repeatedly calling me naive or stating my lack of intellectual firepower. I think I will move on to someone with a better ability to make a sound argument without resorting to name calling or insulting my intellect. Good luck and I hope the church people will stop ruining your life!

You’re right that I shouldn’t insult you, and I apologize. (It’s pretty ironic, though, that someone who throws out “judgmental and close-minded” gets huffy about being insulted. If I were so inclined, I’d point out that you simply could have said I was wrong about my assumptions about your views without throwing in the opening salvo of insults, but there’s no point in getting into the “you started it” conundrum.).

If you’d like to start over, it’s pretty obvious that the insults weren’t my “main argument.” If you’d like to respond to them, I promise, no more insults.