How do you "know" that Jesus/Christianity is not just a crazy story?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that the PPs who did not answer the OP's question, but took a moment to take a swipe at belief in Jesus, cited such reasons as "it's just how they were raised" or "you believe whatever myths you learn as a child" or "it's all faith, no reason." No one has taken the different possibilities about Jesus and the resurrection head-on. There are only so many. And they are either true or false. If you keep removing the ones that prove unreasonable, you are left with...what?

Just take the Resurrection. If it happened, Jesus rose from the dead. If it did not happen, what are the answers to these questions:

#1 Who moved the stone?
#2 Who took the body?
#3 Who started the Resurrection myth and why? What profit did they get from their lie?

There are real possibilities, with the option to accept or reject the data, the premises, the conclusions. But I never see that here.

And the most puzzling rejection of all is "it's just how you were raised," ignoring the millions of adult converts, or the fact that Christianity began with conversion, by necessity. As for those who never heard the name Jesus or the story of the Resurrection--they had nothing to accept or reject. They way they knew God has no bearing on Who God actually is. Jesus, if he is who he said he was, is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. In addition to a Jewish man who was crucified by the Romans.

So if you are reading this thread, you have the opportunity and the cognitive capacity to address the various possibilities and own your conclusion. Go for it.

Somewhere there's a shaman living in the deepest recesses of the Amazonian river basin thinking, "If only the Christians in the US and Western Europe had heard about our Alligator God Zurguture, they'd be converts. Unfortunately, they live in ignorance, so they have nothing to accept and reject." It's cultural chauvinism of the highest order.

"Jesus" gets lots of converts the world over for the same reason that Manchester United, or the New York Yankees get lots of converts. Everyone loves a winner. Nothing to do with the fact that ManU is "truer" than Liverpool.

[Anonymous]

If you really want to understand the myths behind Christianity, read "Man Made God" by B.G. Walker.

[Anonymous]

Those who have prayed and felt a divine presence - that's great. It doesn't mean that Divinity = human child born of a virgin mother in a manger and later tried as a criminal, hung on a cross, killed, buried, rose again.

In other words, Divinity there may be. We humans have dressed it up in all these myths. Maybe Christianity is just one more set of myths, like Zeus or Isis or Mithra or Kronos, and so on....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who have prayed and felt a divine presence - that's great. It doesn't mean that Divinity = human child born of a virgin mother in a manger and later tried as a criminal, hung on a cross, killed, buried, rose again.

In other words, Divinity there may be. We humans have dressed it up in all these myths. Maybe Christianity is just one more set of myths, like Zeus or Isis or Mithra or Kronos, and so on....

Good point. There may be some sort of "godhead", but the idea that it maps to some kind of intricate human mythos is completely unlikely. To believe that is the height of hubris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who have prayed and felt a divine presence - that's great. It doesn't mean that Divinity = human child born of a virgin mother in a manger and later tried as a criminal, hung on a cross, killed, buried, rose again.

In other words, Divinity there may be. We humans have dressed it up in all these myths. Maybe Christianity is just one more set of myths, like Zeus or Isis or Mithra or Kronos, and so on....

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

It's not just "praying and feeling a presence", dude!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know you think I'm a troll.... so let's move beyond that first off.

I really wonder if I'm missing some historical fact on which I can place confidence in the Jesus/Christianity stuff. I see people who genuinely believe, smart people who have made ministry their life's work ... and I wonder how they KNOW that all of it is real and why they are so confident that they are willing to base their careers on it. I admire their convictions (not the over-the-top evangelical pushy types), but I don't have the same conviction. I feel uncomfortable asking friends this b/c I fear that (a) they may not have an answer and (b) they may feel that they need to defend their beliefs.

It's certainly socially acceptable to be Christian in the US, but beyond family heritage and cultural acceptance, ... what give you the confidence that you're on the right track with Christianity?

I'm looking more for historical answers, "evidence" if you will, that the Jesus stuff is real. Although I've heard all the Bible stories and spent a good bit of time in church in my days, I just keep thinking I must be missing some bit of info. that glues it all together.

They can't know (as much as they may claim to know) since there is no objective evidence/proof. However they can believe.

Some people are well equipped to believe and have faith despite the lack of evidence (or they somehow convince themselves that they do know and there is proof). I'm not one of those people (I'm an atheist) yet most members of my family are some brand of Christian or another.

There are very few historical records of Jesus (or a Yeshua, really. It was a common name back then) and none are first hand accounts. Some were definitely doctored by the church. There's the Bible, but that's not objective either and its just as credible as any other religious text.

My take? People can believe what they want. But don't claim to know the unknowable or claim to be better then the next person because of those beliefs. And it irks me when people try to legislate their beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i only know it because i've experienced things that confirm my faith. and it is faith because it's believing in things that can't be proven.

Would you be open to sharing the things that confirm your faith? Just curious. I absolutely am not egging you on to mock you later, I am genuinely curious.

i would but it'd all come off as "crazy stories" of course!
i think there are plenty of smart folks out there who can readily acknowledge the craziness of some experiences but ultimately still come to the conclusion that it was God.
i recently read The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven. http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Who-Came-Back-Heaven/dp/1414336063
my experience is not the same, but i don't doubt what this family experienced was real.
have you ever experienced the things that are talked about in acts 2, the pentecost? have you ever seen your friend possessed by a demon and see it literally show itself? have you ever felt a true deep peace and joy from realizing that you are unconditionally loved by your creator after going through depression and seeing psychiatrists because you've become so lost about your identity?
anyway, there's my crazy.

[Anonymous]

It's all about faith. I'm the type of person who is curious and must have answers to questions. Being a Christian, it's very hard to let go of these questions and realize that we will never know the answer. While it might sound like a cop-out, it really is all about having faith.

I look at it like this: What if Christians have it all wrong? What is there is no God/Jesus/heaven? Well, I'm out nothing. I die and that's it. But if I'm right, wow......what a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!!!

I have nothing to lose if Jesus Christ/God turn out to be illusions, but *everything* to lose if they are real. In addition, believing in God has brought me peace and strength at difficult times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's all about faith. I'm the type of person who is curious and must have answers to questions. Being a Christian, it's very hard to let go of these questions and realize that we will never know the answer. While it might sound like a cop-out, it really is all about having faith.

I look at it like this: What if Christians have it all wrong? What is there is no God/Jesus/heaven? Well, I'm out nothing. I die and that's it. But if I'm right, wow......what a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!!!

I have nothing to lose if Jesus Christ/God turn out to be illusions, but *everything* to lose if they are real. In addition, believing in God has brought me peace and strength at difficult times.

I don't mean to be rude, honestly. But that is Pascal's Wager, which is illogical. It is not 50/50, or your god or no god.

What if you are wrong and the Muslims are right? You'll go to their hell. There are thousands of religions, not just yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's all about faith. I'm the type of person who is curious and must have answers to questions. Being a Christian, it's very hard to let go of these questions and realize that we will never know the answer. While it might sound like a cop-out, it really is all about having faith.

I look at it like this: What if Christians have it all wrong? What is there is no God/Jesus/heaven? Well, I'm out nothing. I die and that's it. But if I'm right, wow......what a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!!!

I have nothing to lose if Jesus Christ/God turn out to be illusions, but *everything* to lose if they are real. In addition, believing in God has brought me peace and strength at difficult times.

Ha! That's pretty ironic: I'm an atheist, and live my life as though this were the only live we get. But I truly believe if there were some sort of omnipotent, omniscient being who shepherds us all that there's no way he'd allow people of goodwill to be "consigned to Hell" for the crime of not believing in Him without evidence. So while I don't believe, I have nothing to lose if such a God actually exists. Yay!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who have prayed and felt a divine presence - that's great. It doesn't mean that Divinity = human child born of a virgin mother in a manger and later tried as a criminal, hung on a cross, killed, buried, rose again.

In other words, Divinity there may be. We humans have dressed it up in all these myths. Maybe Christianity is just one more set of myths, like Zeus or Isis or Mithra or Kronos, and so on....

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

It's not just "praying and feeling a presence", dude!

Okay, dude, if that's not it, let us know what "it" is then. Otherwise, lay off the paternalism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all about faith. I'm the type of person who is curious and must have answers to questions. Being a Christian, it's very hard to let go of these questions and realize that we will never know the answer. While it might sound like a cop-out, it really is all about having faith.

I look at it like this: What if Christians have it all wrong? What is there is no God/Jesus/heaven? Well, I'm out nothing. I die and that's it. But if I'm right, wow......what a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!!!

I have nothing to lose if Jesus Christ/God turn out to be illusions, but *everything* to lose if they are real. In addition, believing in God has brought me peace and strength at difficult times.

I don't mean to be rude, honestly. But that is Pascal's Wager, which is illogical. It is not 50/50, or your god or no god.

What if you are wrong and the Muslims are right? You'll go to their hell. There are thousands of religions, not just yours.

Believe me, I have wrestled with the "How do I know my God is the right God" question. I don't know and won't know until it's too late. But I am comfortable with my choice and beliefs. Again, there is no ultimate right answer. I guess it's up to each individual to decide where there faith is (if anywhere).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who have prayed and felt a divine presence - that's great. It doesn't mean that Divinity = human child born of a virgin mother in a manger and later tried as a criminal, hung on a cross, killed, buried, rose again.

In other words, Divinity there may be. We humans have dressed it up in all these myths. Maybe Christianity is just one more set of myths, like Zeus or Isis or Mithra or Kronos, and so on....

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

It's not just "praying and feeling a presence", dude!

Okay, dude, if that's not it, let us know what "it" is then. Otherwise, lay off the paternalism.

We're talking about personal spiritual experience here. Are you honestly curious or you want to read my testimony to throw something back at me?

I don't thin you're the OP, anyway. OP came here all honest asking about personal experiences and I'm willing to share mine. Now, to have people poking and mocking me, I get that enough in real life. I don't need this from the pretend world of DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's all about faith. I'm the type of person who is curious and must have answers to questions. Being a Christian, it's very hard to let go of these questions and realize that we will never know the answer. While it might sound like a cop-out, it really is all about having faith.

I look at it like this: What if Christians have it all wrong? What is there is no God/Jesus/heaven? Well, I'm out nothing. I die and that's it. But if I'm right, wow......what a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!!!

I have nothing to lose if Jesus Christ/God turn out to be illusions, but *everything* to lose if they are real. In addition, believing in God has brought me peace and strength at difficult times.

Actually, you're out quite a bit. What if atheists are wrong and *you* are wrong? What if the Muslims are right and a belief in Muhammed is necessary to salvation. Then you'll be rotting in Hell with the atheists. What a shame! Maybe you should convert to Islam, just in case. After all, if Islam is a sham, you'll be out nothing. But if they're right...what a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!!

Don't even get me started on the folks who don't believe in Poseidon. I mean, what does it cost you to believe in the Greek Sea-God? If you die and you're wrong and He doesn't exist, you lose nothing. But if you die and you're a true believer? What a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!

Problem is, there are thousands and thousands of things to believe. As long as you can hold all of them in your head simultaneously, you're in luck. If not, you're in trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all about faith. I'm the type of person who is curious and must have answers to questions. Being a Christian, it's very hard to let go of these questions and realize that we will never know the answer. While it might sound like a cop-out, it really is all about having faith.

I look at it like this: What if Christians have it all wrong? What is there is no God/Jesus/heaven? Well, I'm out nothing. I die and that's it. But if I'm right, wow......what a beautiful and glorious thing it will be!!!!!

I have nothing to lose if Jesus Christ/God turn out to be illusions, but *everything* to lose if they are real. In addition, believing in God has brought me peace and strength at difficult times.

Ha! That's pretty ironic: I'm an atheist, and live my life as though this were the only live we get. But I truly believe if there were some sort of omnipotent, omniscient being who shepherds us all that there's no way he'd allow people of goodwill to be "consigned to Hell" for the crime of not believing in Him without evidence. So while I don't believe, I have nothing to lose if such a God actually exists. Yay!

But you see, that's the crux of it all. Anyone can believe in something once they actually see it! It is all about believing, without any requirements for proof.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Hebrews 11:6 (NIV)