is the term 'chocolate' offensive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard D.C. being called Chocolate City by AA or someone who is not AA saying something in a light hearted manner using the term 'chocolate'. Usually the reference is sexual though. Ex: " He is a good looking chocolate man".

I heard a black guy at the grocery store say to his friend, "What's up my [n-word]!?!" But when I said this to Pete from accounting (who happens to be black) he punched me in the nose. What's up with that?

that is a stupid double standard. either the word is offensive or it is not. Chocolate is not offensive. silly though.

Stop whining. Language is all about context. What is signified varies by who the transmitter, and who the receiver is. If your brother tells you to "stop being a dick", it's different than if a subordinate at work tells you to stop being one. Let's stop pretending that non-black folk who don't get to use the n-word are being unfairly treated. It's been about a generation since we've had legal apartheid in this county, so it's offensive and the height of douchebaggery to kvetch about this.

So, if it's ALL about context, is it okay if you're using the term 'chocolate' affectionately?

As in, the PP who mentioned that the kids on her son's sports team cheered for the only AA boy by yelling 'Chocolate'? As long as they were being supportive of the AA kid, that seems to be a pretty good context for use of the term.

It's either acceptable, or not. I find it unacceptable for my brother and my subordinates to call me a 'dick'. It's great if you're okay with it, but I think it's unacceptable from anyone. It's rude and vulgar. I think the same of the n-word. I don't use it and don't want anyone else to use it. Don't justify it's use by AAs. And, you calling the PP a 'douchebag' doesn't seem all that appropriate either.

Well, two things: first, there's a multi-century history of that word being used in conjunction with racial violence, and with state enforced racial oppression. "Dick" is something individuals call one another.

Secondly, if you're whining about "How come I don't get to call black people '[n-word]'?? They say it all the time to Each Other!!" then it is an objective fact that you are being a douchebag. So at that point it's just about accuracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I'm white. What is it about white folks getting all angry that they can't say "chocolate" or use the "n-word" just because they heard Chris Rock use it in a show? Can't some of you PPs get it through your head that whites used all kinds of pejorative, racist, baseless terms to describe blacks over the years and that some folks may, understandably, be sensitive to language and its usage? What is the BFD in saying AA instead of chocolate? Are you really all so frigging clueless? What is this whining about "well, if the mayor said it, well, so can I!" Whatever. Are you all really so juvenile? Is this how you raise your children?

That's not really the argument here. The discussion is whether or not the term 'chocolate' is actually offensive. Why do you consider 'chocolate' a 'pejorative/racist' term?

To assume the worst about people - that anyone using the term 'chocolate' is automatically a racist is just as obnoxious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So, if it's ALL about context, is it okay if you're using the term 'chocolate' affectionately?

As in, the PP who mentioned that the kids on her son's sports team cheered for the only AA boy by yelling 'Chocolate'? As long as they were being supportive of the AA kid, that seems to be a pretty good context for use of the term.

It's either acceptable, or not. I find it unacceptable for my brother and my subordinates to call me a 'dick'. It's great if you're okay with it, but I think it's unacceptable from anyone. It's rude and vulgar. I think the same of the n-word. I don't use it and don't want anyone else to use it. Don't justify it's use by AAs. And, you calling the PP a 'douchebag' doesn't seem all that appropriate either.

Well, two things: first, there's a multi-century history of that word being used in conjunction with racial violence, and with state enforced racial oppression. "Dick" is something individuals call one another.

Secondly, if you're whining about "How come I don't get to call black people '[n-word]'?? They say it all the time to Each Other!!" then it is an objective fact that you are being a douchebag. So at that point it's just about accuracy.

You're missing the point (and coming across as a total douchebag yourself).

Nobody was whining about 'How come I don't get to call black people the n-word'. It's more that there shouldn't be a double standard. It really should be unacceptable across the board for anyone of any color to use the n-word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, I'm white. What is it about white folks getting all angry that they can't say "chocolate" or use the "n-word" just because they heard Chris Rock use it in a show? Can't some of you PPs get it through your head that whites used all kinds of pejorative, racist, baseless terms to describe blacks over the years and that some folks may, understandably, be sensitive to language and its usage? What is the BFD in saying AA instead of chocolate? Are you really all so frigging clueless? What is this whining about "well, if the mayor said it, well, so can I!" Whatever. Are you all really so juvenile? Is this how you raise your children?

That's not really the argument here. The discussion is whether or not the term 'chocolate' is actually offensive. Why do you consider 'chocolate' a 'pejorative/racist' term?

To assume the worst about people - that anyone using the term 'chocolate' is automatically a racist is just as obnoxious.

So, just to get it straight, the argument isn't whether the term 'chocolate' is offensive to actual individuals who you're talking to? Instead the "discussion is whether or not the term 'chocolate' is actually offensive."

I think you're being intentionally "thick".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So, if it's ALL about context, is it okay if you're using the term 'chocolate' affectionately?

As in, the PP who mentioned that the kids on her son's sports team cheered for the only AA boy by yelling 'Chocolate'? As long as they were being supportive of the AA kid, that seems to be a pretty good context for use of the term.

It's either acceptable, or not. I find it unacceptable for my brother and my subordinates to call me a 'dick'. It's great if you're okay with it, but I think it's unacceptable from anyone. It's rude and vulgar. I think the same of the n-word. I don't use it and don't want anyone else to use it. Don't justify it's use by AAs. And, you calling the PP a 'douchebag' doesn't seem all that appropriate either.

Well, two things: first, there's a multi-century history of that word being used in conjunction with racial violence, and with state enforced racial oppression. "Dick" is something individuals call one another.

Secondly, if you're whining about "How come I don't get to call black people '[n-word]'?? They say it all the time to Each Other!!" then it is an objective fact that you are being a douchebag. So at that point it's just about accuracy.

You're missing the point (and coming across as a total douchebag yourself).

Nobody was whining about 'How come I don't get to call black people the n-word'. It's more that there shouldn't be a double standard. It really should be unacceptable across the board for anyone of any color to use the n-word.

Only in the same sense that it's a double-standard that you get to have sex with your spouse, and (presumably) no one else does. Or that a couple into BDSM can hit one another, not everyone can. There's implied consent. Whether it's sex, or language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So, if it's ALL about context, is it okay if you're using the term 'chocolate' affectionately?

As in, the PP who mentioned that the kids on her son's sports team cheered for the only AA boy by yelling 'Chocolate'? As long as they were being supportive of the AA kid, that seems to be a pretty good context for use of the term.

It's either acceptable, or not. I find it unacceptable for my brother and my subordinates to call me a 'dick'. It's great if you're okay with it, but I think it's unacceptable from anyone. It's rude and vulgar. I think the same of the n-word. I don't use it and don't want anyone else to use it. Don't justify it's use by AAs. And, you calling the PP a 'douchebag' doesn't seem all that appropriate either.

Well, two things: first, there's a multi-century history of that word being used in conjunction with racial violence, and with state enforced racial oppression. "Dick" is something individuals call one another.

Secondly, if you're whining about "How come I don't get to call black people '[n-word]'?? They say it all the time to Each Other!!" then it is an objective fact that you are being a douchebag. So at that point it's just about accuracy.

You're missing the point (and coming across as a total douchebag yourself).

Nobody was whining about 'How come I don't get to call black people the n-word'. It's more that there shouldn't be a double standard. It really should be unacceptable across the board for anyone of any color to use the n-word.

Only in the same sense that it's a double-standard that you get to have sex with your spouse, and (presumably) no one else does. Or that a couple into BDSM can hit one another, not everyone can. There's implied consent. Whether it's sex, or language.

agreed with this. Also, I would add that, for young urban white people who are fans of hip hop and fans of comedy, you hear the N word ALL THE TIME. Its not like you want to make a slur, you just might want to repeat a line from a song or repeat a funny joke you heard at the club. And it is just silly that a word so omnipresent is also so artificially taboo. Clearly it is not or you wouldnt hear it constantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and I would assume someone calling me vanilla would mean that I'm kind of generic or standard. I wouldn't be particularly offended by it b/c I am pretty much vanilla.

I haven't called a black person chocolate, but I could imagine myself using that term in a figurative way to describe a population that is mostly dark-skinned. It wouldn't seem like an insult, just describing a difference in color. In fact, I almost would take it or mean it as a sweet or pleasant description of color b/c everyone loves chocolate and it has a very positive connotation to me.

"chocolate" is not the same as saying "blackie" or "whitey." Any word can be used pejoritively, but I wouldn't assume that about "chocolate."

See, here's the thing. You don't get to decide that. You don't get to decide for someone else what's offensive to them.

Great, so if someone calls you 'chocolate' tell that person that you'd prefer to be called something else, and move on. Of course you have the right to find anything and everything offensive. But, pretty much any word can be made offensive in any context, maybe depending on tone of voice.

You also don't get to decide for everyone else what is offensive and non-offensive.

I wasn't. But someone who is white simply cannot say that calling someone chocolate is not the same as blackie. If someone who is Black tells me they're offended by it, done. If someone who is Black tells me they're not offended by it, done. I don't get to decide that for them. See the difference?

of course you can. as the speaker, you decide what you are comfortable saying. the listener also decides. it is a two-way street.

You are way missing the point, but it's not worth it.

no, I understand your misguided point. But we live in one society, not a group of 300 million separate societies. So if one individual decides it is offensive to review to him as "Michael Smith", it doesn't mean the other 300MM have to agree. A consensus has to be reached.

No, you clearly don't understand the point. At all. There doesn't have to be any consensus at all as to what I personally find offensive. Somehow I think what you find offensive and what I find offensive wouldn't match up at all. But you have the right to be offended by whatever the hell you want to offended by, and I have the right to be offended by whatever I want to be offended by. No need to query 300 million other people.

[Anonymous]

Wow...some white people are really entitled!!

What's the BFD about wanting to have full reign to use racist terms? Your excuse for wanting to say the "n" word is that blacks use them. So what? What black people do you normally hear using it? I'm black and it's usually the young and loud types that I encounter on the Metro. Do you really want to do and say what they do and say?

Damn...it's really mind-boggling. A person tells you being called chocolate is offensive and the response is "well, calling someone chocolate isn't offensive". WTF. So in the face of the answer, you dismiss it because it doesn't fit your reality?

I just don't get the big deal. What's so hard about calling a black person..........................black? Seriously, no need for other descriptors....black will do. I've never felt the need to call a white person vanilla and I certainly wouldn't argue my right to do it, if a white person told me they found it offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow...some white people are really entitled!!

What's the BFD about wanting to have full reign to use racist terms? Your excuse for wanting to say the "n" word is that blacks use them. So what? What black people do you normally hear using it? I'm black and it's usually the young and loud types that I encounter on the Metro. Do you really want to do and say what they do and say?

Damn...it's really mind-boggling. A person tells you being called chocolate is offensive and the response is "well, calling someone chocolate isn't offensive". WTF. So in the face of the answer, you dismiss it because it doesn't fit your reality?

I just don't get the big deal. What's so hard about calling a black person..........................black? Seriously, no need for other descriptors....black will do. I've never felt the need to call a white person vanilla and I certainly wouldn't argue my right to do it, if a white person told me they found it offensive.

YES!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow...some white people are really entitled!!

What's the BFD about wanting to have full reign to use racist terms? Your excuse for wanting to say the "n" word is that blacks use them. So what? What black people do you normally hear using it? I'm black and it's usually the young and loud types that I encounter on the Metro. Do you really want to do and say what they do and say?

Damn...it's really mind-boggling. A person tells you being called chocolate is offensive and the response is "well, calling someone chocolate isn't offensive". WTF. So in the face of the answer, you dismiss it because it doesn't fit your reality?

I just don't get the big deal. What's so hard about calling a black person..........................black? Seriously, no need for other descriptors....black will do. I've never felt the need to call a white person vanilla and I certainly wouldn't argue my right to do it, if a white person told me they found it offensive.

YES!!!

Thank you for expressing this so eloquently. I as a black persons would be offended if an older white woman called me chocolate. For other whites to then try and argue with me on this point, especially when they will NEVER know what it means to be black, or go through my experiences dealing with white privilege, is quite ridiculous. The initial question was asked, and answered. Please accept it, and don't try and put your own spin on it. You will never know our reality, or what these types of labels mean to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow...some white people are really entitled!!

What's the BFD about wanting to have full reign to use racist terms? Your excuse for wanting to say the "n" word is that blacks use them. So what? What black people do you normally hear using it? I'm black and it's usually the young and loud types that I encounter on the Metro. Do you really want to do and say what they do and say?

Damn...it's really mind-boggling. A person tells you being called chocolate is offensive and the response is "well, calling someone chocolate isn't offensive". WTF. So in the face of the answer, you dismiss it because it doesn't fit your reality?

I just don't get the big deal. What's so hard about calling a black person..........................black? Seriously, no need for other descriptors....black will do. I've never felt the need to call a white person vanilla and I certainly wouldn't argue my right to do it, if a white person told me they found it offensive.

YES!!!

Thank you for expressing this so eloquently. I as a black persons would be offended if an older white woman called me chocolate. For other whites to then try and argue with me on this point, especially when they will NEVER know what it means to be black, or go through my experiences dealing with white privilege, is quite ridiculous. The initial question was asked, and answered. Please accept it, and don't try and put your own spin on it. You will never know our reality, or what these types of labels mean to us.

I'm 19:05 and this is what I was trying (not so eloquently) to say. I'm white FWIW, which isn't much in this context, but it burns my ass when anyone tries to tell another person what is or isn't offensive to another human being. Hear what they're telling you and shut up. But agreed, much more eloquently put above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow...some white people are really entitled!!

What's the BFD about wanting to have full reign to use racist terms? Your excuse for wanting to say the "n" word is that blacks use them. So what? What black people do you normally hear using it? I'm black and it's usually the young and loud types that I encounter on the Metro. Do you really want to do and say what they do and say?

Damn...it's really mind-boggling. A person tells you being called chocolate is offensive and the response is "well, calling someone chocolate isn't offensive". WTF. So in the face of the answer, you dismiss it because it doesn't fit your reality?

I just don't get the big deal. What's so hard about calling a black person..........................black? Seriously, no need for other descriptors....black will do. I've never felt the need to call a white person vanilla and I certainly wouldn't argue my right to do it, if a white person told me they found it offensive.

YES!!!

Thank you for expressing this so eloquently. I as a black persons would be offended if an older white woman called me chocolate. For other whites to then try and argue with me on this point, especially when they will NEVER know what it means to be black, or go through my experiences dealing with white privilege, is quite ridiculous. The initial question was asked, and answered. Please accept it, and don't try and put your own spin on it. You will never know our reality, or what these types of labels mean to us.

I'm 19:05 and this is what I was trying (not so eloquently) to say. I'm white FWIW, which isn't much in this context, but it burns my ass when anyone tries to tell another person what is or isn't offensive to another human being. Hear what they're telling you and shut up. But agreed, much more eloquently put above.

ah, the list of forbidden words gets so long and so muddled combined with the rules of who can say what, that I think you are trying to tell others what is offensive. just because you say it is offensive, does not mean that is a rational reaction. we cannot live our lives in fear of offending those with such delicate sensibilities. stop playing the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
ah, the list of forbidden words gets so long and so muddled combined with the rules of who can say what, that I think you are trying to tell others what is offensive. just because you say it is offensive, does not mean that is a rational reaction. we cannot live our lives in fear of offending those with such delicate sensibilities. stop playing the victim.

You're arguing for the right to call black people "chocolate". Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

[Anonymous]

Is brown or black better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
ah, the list of forbidden words gets so long and so muddled combined with the rules of who can say what, that I think you are trying to tell others what is offensive. just because you say it is offensive, does not mean that is a rational reaction. we cannot live our lives in fear of offending those with such delicate sensibilities. stop playing the victim.

You're arguing for the right to call black people "chocolate". Do you know how ridiculous you sound?

No, we're arguing that it's ridiculous when people get offended by things that aren't meant to be offensive.

I have no desire to call anyone anything. If you don't want me to call you 'chocolate', that's fine. But, to label anyone that uses the word 'chocolate' racist is just as ridiculous.