Questions for the liberals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I guess a problem I have with the "how Jesus saw things" attitude is that this should have nothing to do with what the government does or does not implement. Take Jesus' example as moral instruction for your personal life, but people choosing to donate to the poor (for example) and being mandated to do so by the government are entirely different things. By the same token, marriage between homosexuals should be legal, because even if you believe it is morally wrong according to the Bible (I don't), that has NOTHING to do with what the government should be dictating or "allowing."

Agreed. But my issue is that the conservatives are such hypocrites. They are all big on Christianity - but they don't want to treat people according to their own supposed Christian values. They insist on prayer in school and a manger scene at the town hall, but heaven forbid we actually treat a fellow citizen with Christian charity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I guess a problem I have with the "how Jesus saw things" attitude is that this should have nothing to do with what the government does or does not implement. Take Jesus' example as moral instruction for your personal life, but people choosing to donate to the poor (for example) and being mandated to do so by the government are entirely different things. By the same token, marriage between homosexuals should be legal, because even if you believe it is morally wrong according to the Bible (I don't), that has NOTHING to do with what the government should be dictating or "allowing."

Agreed. But my issue is that the conservatives are such hypocrites. They are all big on Christianity - but they don't want to treat people according to their own supposed Christian values. They insist on prayer in school and a manger scene at the town hall, but heaven forbid we actually treat a fellow citizen with Christian charity.

Well, you need to bone up on Conservative christianity. They got rid of the "works" requirement a while ago. All you need to be "saved" is to accept Jesus Christ in your heart. You don't actually have to give a fuck about anyone else, or actually behave in a Christian manner. It's the perfect post-Goldwater solution to the problem of how to be religious while also being a judgmental, self-absorbed douche-bag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I guess a problem I have with the "how Jesus saw things" attitude is that this should have nothing to do with what the government does or does not implement. Take Jesus' example as moral instruction for your personal life, but people choosing to donate to the poor (for example) and being mandated to do so by the government are entirely different things. By the same token, marriage between homosexuals should be legal, because even if you believe it is morally wrong according to the Bible (I don't), that has NOTHING to do with what the government should be dictating or "allowing."

Agreed. But my issue is that the conservatives are such hypocrites. They are all big on Christianity - but they don't want to treat people according to their own supposed Christian values. They insist on prayer in school and a manger scene at the town hall, but heaven forbid we actually treat a fellow citizen with Christian charity.

Well, you need to bone up on Conservative christianity. They got rid of the "works" requirement a while ago. All you need to be "saved" is to accept Jesus Christ in your heart. You don't actually have to give a fuck about anyone else, or actually behave in a Christian manner. It's the perfect post-Goldwater solution to the problem of how to be religious while also being a judgmental, self-absorbed douche-bag.

if you accept it and mean it...(tim tebow)...you will be attacked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I guess a problem I have with the "how Jesus saw things" attitude is that this should have nothing to do with what the government does or does not implement. Take Jesus' example as moral instruction for your personal life, but people choosing to donate to the poor (for example) and being mandated to do so by the government are entirely different things. By the same token, marriage between homosexuals should be legal, because even if you believe it is morally wrong according to the Bible (I don't), that has NOTHING to do with what the government should be dictating or "allowing."

Agreed. But my issue is that the conservatives are such hypocrites. They are all big on Christianity - but they don't want to treat people according to their own supposed Christian values. They insist on prayer in school and a manger scene at the town hall, but heaven forbid we actually treat a fellow citizen with Christian charity.

Well, you need to bone up on Conservative christianity. They got rid of the "works" requirement a while ago. All you need to be "saved" is to accept Jesus Christ in your heart. You don't actually have to give a fuck about anyone else, or actually behave in a Christian manner. It's the perfect post-Goldwater solution to the problem of how to be religious while also being a judgmental, self-absorbed douche-bag.

if you accept it and mean it...(tim tebow)...you will be attacked.

More persecution complex. The problem is that Christianity has at it's heart a core of underclass sentiment. Once upon a time, Christianity was the oppressed religion. For Western Europeans, this ended some time around the conversion of Constantine. But old habits die hard, and so one of the core stories that Christians tell themselves is that they're "attacked". What's really needed is for some of the early Christian martyrs to come back to Earth and bitch-slap some perspective into you guys. That some point out the ludicrousness of some professional athlete making millions of dollars a year, who makes a grandiose display of himself every time he scores (because the Creator of the Universe has intervened to help him out) is rounded down to "attacks" and persecution.

Jesus, when did Christians become such spineless wimps? You ought to spend an hour with some real persecuted religious minorities.

[TheManWithAUsername]

To drift this tread further along...

In almost every case I think Christians crying persecution is completely ludicrous, but I'm more sympathetic in the Tebow case. I don't know why anyone gives a shit what he does after succeeding or to what spirit he credits his success.

But sorry, PP - all the attention paid to Tebow's religion is the exception, not the rule. He drew much of the attention not only with the benign drama but also with the more understandably controversial anti-abortion ad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I guess a problem I have with the "how Jesus saw things" attitude is that this should have nothing to do with what the government does or does not implement. Take Jesus' example as moral instruction for your personal life, but people choosing to donate to the poor (for example) and being mandated to do so by the government are entirely different things. By the same token, marriage between homosexuals should be legal, because even if you believe it is morally wrong according to the Bible (I don't), that has NOTHING to do with what the government should be dictating or "allowing."

I think you are a rare Christian. Most believe that the government should conform to Christian values. They just selectively forget what those values are.

Some religions (for example Catholicism) are very clear on the responsibility of the state toward the poor. But even there, Catholics (my own religion) often brush over inconvenient statements from Rome or the US Bishops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I guess a problem I have with the "how Jesus saw things" attitude is that this should have nothing to do with what the government does or does not implement. Take Jesus' example as moral instruction for your personal life, but people choosing to donate to the poor (for example) and being mandated to do so by the government are entirely different things. By the same token, marriage between homosexuals should be legal, because even if you believe it is morally wrong according to the Bible (I don't), that has NOTHING to do with what the government should be dictating or "allowing."

I think you are a rare Christian. Most believe that the government should conform to Christian values. They just selectively forget what those values are.

Some religions (for example Catholicism) are very clear on the responsibility of the state toward the poor. But even there, Catholics (my own religion) often brush over inconvenient statements from Rome or the US Bishops.

Some religions differ, but the words of Jesus are pretty damned explicit:

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was ahungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee ahungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was ahungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

So, no, you don't get a pass for "accepting Jesus into your heart", or for going on a Church field trip to jail once a year to try to convert inmates to whatever your particular sect might be.

Christianity is a religion of social liberalism. Those that don't understand that aren't practicing Christianity.

[Anonymous]

you absolutely do get a pass. conversion /accepting Jesus into your heart can be a instant process. in the blink of an eyelash you can be saved. the key is you have to mean it and accept Jesus as the son of God and yourself not worthy of heaven and in need of a savior to wash you clean. the criminal on the right of jesus when he was crucified had an instant conversion and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with him. The unforgivable sin is thinking you don't need Jesus or that God is wrong ( about giving away money or that its ok to have sex outside of marriage or homosexuality is good.)

[takoma]

Anonymous wrote:you absolutely do get a pass. conversion /accepting Jesus into your heart can be a instant process. in the blink of an eyelash you can be saved. the key is you have to mean it and accept Jesus as the son of God and yourself not worthy of heaven and in need of a savior to wash you clean. the criminal on the right of jesus when he was crucified had an instant conversion and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with him. The unforgivable sin is thinking you don't need Jesus or that God is wrong ( about giving away money or that its ok to have sex outside of marriage or homosexuality is good.)

Your status vis a vis heaven is your business. How you treat others determines how the rest of us judge you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:you absolutely do get a pass. conversion /accepting Jesus into your heart can be a instant process. in the blink of an eyelash you can be saved. the key is you have to mean it and accept Jesus as the son of God and yourself not worthy of heaven and in need of a savior to wash you clean. the criminal on the right of jesus when he was crucified had an instant conversion and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with him. The unforgivable sin is thinking you don't need Jesus or that God is wrong ( about giving away money or that its ok to have sex outside of marriage or homosexuality is good.)

Uh, you don't get a pass if you live your life planning on getting a pass at the end. The criminal to the right of Jesus had no idea who Jesus was. You do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:you absolutely do get a pass. conversion /accepting Jesus into your heart can be a instant process. in the blink of an eyelash you can be saved. the key is you have to mean it and accept Jesus as the son of God and yourself not worthy of heaven and in need of a savior to wash you clean. the criminal on the right of jesus when he was crucified had an instant conversion and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with him. The unforgivable sin is thinking you don't need Jesus or that God is wrong ( about giving away money or that its ok to have sex outside of marriage or homosexuality is good.)

Attendedf Christian school for 13 years and this is the saddest interpretation of the New Testament I can imagine. Unfortunately you show the true colors of your cohorts. You are exactly the problem we are talking about.

[Anonymous]

In the blink of an eyelash you can be forgiven. But that does not make you saved.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

You have to do the work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you absolutely do get a pass. conversion /accepting Jesus into your heart can be a instant process. in the blink of an eyelash you can be saved. the key is you have to mean it and accept Jesus as the son of God and yourself not worthy of heaven and in need of a savior to wash you clean. the criminal on the right of jesus when he was crucified had an instant conversion and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with him. The unforgivable sin is thinking you don't need Jesus or that God is wrong ( about giving away money or that its ok to have sex outside of marriage or homosexuality is good.)

Attendedf Christian school for 13 years and this is the saddest interpretation of the New Testament I can imagine. Unfortunately you show the true colors of your cohorts. You are exactly the problem we are talking about.

Agreed. The Bible is actually pretty clear. What PP is describing is an Americanized fast-food religion that has nothing to do with Christianity. It's pretty obvious from the Scripture quoted. In Revelations, John talks about those who worship the anti-Christ: those who have been bamboozled from following the Way of Christ, and have fallen under the influence of his nemesis. PP is exactly what Revelations is talking about. It's a perversion of Christianity that elevates the worst human impulses, and discards everything Christ teaches. The followers of the Anti-Christ honestly believe they're good Christians. How sad when Judgement Day comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:you absolutely do get a pass. conversion /accepting Jesus into your heart can be a instant process. in the blink of an eyelash you can be saved. the key is you have to mean it and accept Jesus as the son of God and yourself not worthy of heaven and in need of a savior to wash you clean. the criminal on the right of jesus when he was crucified had an instant conversion and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with him. The unforgivable sin is thinking you don't need Jesus or that God is wrong ( about giving away money or that its ok to have sex outside of marriage or homosexuality is good.)

Uh, you don't get a pass if you live your life planning on getting a pass at the end. The criminal to the right of Jesus had no idea who Jesus was. You do.

Ding! Correct answer.

Also, PP, could you expound on your thesis that the unforgivable sins are a) thinking sex outside of marriage is ok, b) homosexuality is ok, and c) "giving away money".

Seriously, as distorted as those principles are, you'd think anyone could tell that the Word of Jesus had been perverted beyond all recognition. Perhaps Luther was wrong after all.

[TheManWithAUsername]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, as distorted as those principles are, you'd think anyone could tell that the Word of Jesus had been perverted beyond all recognition. Perhaps Luther was wrong after all.

I dunno. It looks to me like a big part of the problem* is all of these people who supposedly believe in the literal truth of the bible but never read it, instead relying on some loudmouth's interpretation. Wasn't that Luther's main complaint (asks the ignoramus)? It would be nice if someone reformed away all those guys.