More than 200 D.C. teachers fired

[Anonymous]

"to effective NW teacher, what can or should DCPS do to encourage you and others to come to schools that really need you? Should there be bonuses for transfers or higher salary for high need schools? I'm worried the bonus system will incent best teachers and principals who are already in NW to stay where they even if they would rather be in NE or Se. It seems kind of cruel to give bonuses to a few when the "nonteaching" staff who help them are getting axed for budget, not performance. Any teachers want to weigh in?"


NW teacher here. It is not bonus $ I need. It is job security. Although I believe that if DCPS did offer significant bonuses to highly effective teachers willing to make a commitment to said schools there would be greater interest. Especially if combined with additional training, support and a willingness to use a different kind of evaluation method.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"You have to be pretty bad to be ineffective..."

"Actually not always the case. A teacher can be rated "effective" and then ultimately ineffective when their student scores sink them. Some students in SE DC really struggle."



I am a solidly effective teacher in a NW school. There is no way I would ever consider teaching in the SE, a place where DCPS really needs to attract effective and highly effective teachers. Why not? It is NOT because I prefer the NW community of students and families. It is not because the facilities are nicer. I would in fact PREFER to teach in NE or SE but will not consider it for the reasons stated above. I have a family I need to support. I can not risk losing my job.

This is what makes me sad. IMPACT does not help attract better teachers to the classrooms that really need them.

I get the issue of needing to keep your job, but are you so sure that you would not be rated effective with these kids? Why? Not just test scores but why are teachers to so risk adverse? Every profession has its issues and this is one that I see is hugely problematic.

Kids at all schools really need effective teachers. I assume this teacher is making a difference with the children currently being taught. Teachers are not one size fits all. Most truly gravitate towards the environment where they will best contribute. Teachers also grow and develop over a lifetime of practice and professional development and many end up in radically different settings from the ones they started in. Trust THEM to know. Being labeled highly effective in the emergency room does not mean you will thrive as a country doctor (Northern Exposure aside). This teacher may one day end up in a different school, but it's ludicrous to think you can move 'highly effective teacher-bots' around like so many chess pieces.
What's sad about NW teacher's response is that he/she would prefer to work in NE/SE (ie has an idea about contributing) but will not do to the long arm of IMPACT, with the reasoning well-explained. In plain English, it sounds like teachers in SE/NE/SW are being set up to fail under IMPACT. Teachers are professionals, not hobbyists. There's nothing about being set up to fail that is appealing to most professionals. Not only does one not make a difference, but one gets ground up and spit out. The mechanisms to support 'effective teachers' getting to all the children should recognize and factor in the different challenges teachers face in their classrooms.
If you find something to admire in martyrs, feel free to go 'make a difference' in the 'risk-taking way' of your choice (yack!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of a teacher who lost his or her job because of IMPACT last year? Did they seem to deserve it, or not?

It would add a lot to this discussion to have some specific examples instead of all this generalizing.

Please do not name names. These teachers have dealt with enough without having their names bandied around the internet. Good luck to them and congratulations on escaping DCPS.

I didn't mean anyone should be named, or the school. Just, has anyone actually witnessed this happening to a teacher they knew?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know of several teacher who left DCPS during the school year after receiving 1s and 2s on their first observation.

DCPS admin is probably celebrating, They rid the schools of teachers with low ratings to make way for teachers with no ratings --as if they are intrinsically better.

Meanwhile, the kids get stuck with subs the rest of the year.

[Anonymous]

Chaos begets chaos.

[Anonymous]

"In plain English, it sounds like teachers in SE/NE/SW are being set up to fail under IMPACT."

Oh come on. Last year more than 85% of teachers were rated effective or highly effective under IMPACT. Given these stats and the fact that the vast majority of DCPS teachers work in schools that are not in upper NW, it is ridiculous to say that IMPACT is setting them up to fail.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP that taught at the college level, I haved toyed with the idea of getting certified to teach in DCPS. What do you think NW teacher? How does one go about this? I would try NE or SE schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not that many unless it's your child's favorite teacher. IMPACT bites.

Frankly, I'm not sure children are the best judge of what makes an effective teacher. Any more than they're the best judge of what they should be eating all the time, or what time they should go to bed.

"Ms Stephens is *awesome*!! We watch DVDs every day while she does her nails!!!"

Great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final IMPACT scores can not calculated until DCAS test results are in (mid-July). DCPS needs to expedite this process to be fair to teachers who will be fired/excessed and principals who will need to find their replacements.

Applying for a job in DCPS is now a long process that some highly prospective teachers might not want to deal with.

I rather doubt that the application process is the major disincentive. IMPACT and serial firings of hundreds of teachers would seem like a major red flag to me.

Of course, one year does not a trend make. It will be interesting to see what happens over, say, five years. We've had decades of unqualified teacher protection in DCPS. The Washington Post reported that exactly *two* teachers were fired for performance reasons in the five years leading up to the Rhee "purges" of last year. That's a lot of time for dead wood to accumulate. My guess is that the number of teachers let go for performance reasons is going to fall to a low level and stay there. DCPS has had a record number of applicants this year. DCPS is also doing significantly better on applicants when compared to school districts nationwide. So your projection is 180 degrees off from reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Final IMPACT scores can not calculated until DCAS test results are in (mid-July). DCPS needs to expedite this process to be fair to teachers who will be fired/excessed and principals who will need to find their replacements.

Applying for a job in DCPS is now a long process that some highly prospective teachers might not want to deal with.

I rather doubt that the application process is the major disincentive. IMPACT and serial firings of hundreds of teachers would seem like a major red flag to me.

Agreed.

Also, DCPS could care less about hiring experienced teachers. They just want to fire teachers and replace them with TFA's

Comically off-base. Remember kids: any accountability whatsoever is just a trojan horse to try to get the motivated, well-educated college graduates into teaching--none of whom have rigorous "education" degrees, and half of whom might not even stay in teaching for 40 years.

I'm curious: if teachers with that background are good enough for our elite private schools, why not for public school kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No - fired teachers do not get a year's pay.

ALso, you're assuming that IMPACT is a good tool for weeding out bad teachers - there is no indication that this is so.

I doubt anyone is against bad teachers getting fired. It a matter of whether IMPACT is rightly identifying them

Even if this were so, it's an argument that we should be refining IMPACT (as it appears DCPS is doing) not that we should return to the dark days of zero accountability.

[Anonymous]

College professor, that's wonderful news. Urban school districts need people like you. What subject do you teach? It would be worth contacting DCPS to see if they are receptive to uncertified teachers with your qualifications. However I think you do need to be state certified, unless you are under the tutelage of DC Fellows or TFA who provide their fellows with teaching certification and Masters after they've completed two years of full time teaching and training.

I'm not sure about DC but some states offer "alternative routes" to teacher certification programs. You teach full time while working with an assigned mentor colleague (not all schools are willing to take on these teachers), get a full salary and take night classes in education. It is a difficult and stressful year but you are done by the end of it. A friend of mine (former college professor) in did this 8 years ago in NJ. College teacher programs can much longer and cost a lot of money. And they don't always offer important practical experience. But it is worth investigating as things might have changed in the last 5 years.

As far as I know, all teachers applying for teaching jobs in DCPS have to go through the new multistep process, whether they want to teach in NW or SE. Not sure if DCPS offers an expedited route for teachers willing to commit to Title I schools. But again, it's always worth a call.

Good luck. It is rewarding work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"You have to be pretty bad to be ineffective..."

"Actually not always the case. A teacher can be rated "effective" and then ultimately ineffective when their student scores sink them. Some students in SE DC really struggle."



I am a solidly effective teacher in a NW school. There is no way I would ever consider teaching in the SE, a place where DCPS really needs to attract effective and highly effective teachers. Why not? It is NOT because I prefer the NW community of students and families. It is not because the facilities are nicer. I would in fact PREFER to teach in NE or SE but will not consider it for the reasons stated above. I have a family I need to support. I can not risk losing my job.

This is what makes me sad. IMPACT does not help attract better teachers to the classrooms that really need them.

I get the issue of needing to keep your job, but are you so sure that you would not be rated effective with these kids? Why? Not just test scores but why are teachers to so risk adverse? Every profession has its issues and this is one that I see is hugely problematic.

I don't think its overly risk adverse for a teacher to switch to a school where they might lose their job because of what they perceive as an unfair system.

Let's take another profession -- anything - in which a person with two kids and a mortgage who doesn't take a harder, less stable job for the SAME PAY is considered risk adverse.

No if they made a switch like that, they'd be considered stupid.

Oh please. I find it fascinating that all these teachers who would *love* to be teaching in the worst schools of SE except for that nasty IMPACT are all teaching in NW--and have been for years before IMPACT was ever rolled out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"You have to be pretty bad to be ineffective..."

"Actually not always the case. A teacher can be rated "effective" and then ultimately ineffective when their student scores sink them. Some students in SE DC really struggle."



I am a solidly effective teacher in a NW school. There is no way I would ever consider teaching in the SE, a place where DCPS really needs to attract effective and highly effective teachers. Why not? It is NOT because I prefer the NW community of students and families. It is not because the facilities are nicer. I would in fact PREFER to teach in NE or SE but will not consider it for the reasons stated above. I have a family I need to support. I can not risk losing my job.

This is what makes me sad. IMPACT does not help attract better teachers to the classrooms that really need them.

I get the issue of needing to keep your job, but are you so sure that you would not be rated effective with these kids? Why? Not just test scores but why are teachers to so risk adverse? Every profession has its issues and this is one that I see is hugely problematic.

I don't think its overly risk adverse for a teacher to switch to a school where they might lose their job because of what they perceive as an unfair system.

Let's take another profession -- anything - in which a person with two kids and a mortgage who doesn't take a harder, less stable job for the SAME PAY is considered risk adverse.

No if they made a switch like that, they'd be considered stupid.

Of course, it's very well-publicized that there are substantial (think $25k) bonuses for teacher who work in struggling EOTR schools. So, ALL CAPS aside, you're incorrect that it's the same pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Name a single local employer that has fired 5% of it's professional workforce for cause in one year. Just one.

After *not* firing any employees for performance reasons for decades? Not too much of a stretch to think of this happening in the private sector.