UCs are considering reinstating SAT and ACT tests for admission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS had a 790 on the math SAT and 750 RW SAT and didn't get in. Only UC he got into was UC Santa Cruz.

Meanwhile he got into Williams, Tufts, Carleton, Wesleyan, WashU and more.

Same SAT score for my son. He did get into a “higher” UC, but not Cal or UCLA.

I really, really doubt the UC AOs at other schools couldn’t distinguish these kids from kids at lower performing, predominantly Hispanic kids just because they didn’t have SAT scores. UC wants to force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs. The upper and mid tiers need a certain % of hispanicc kids. Requiring or not requiring SATs is not changing this. It will just piss people off more.

The test blind policy is already pissing off most STEM/Econ faculty.

They can still “force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs” and admit more Hispanic kids to the upper and mid tiers will a test-required policy. Just be transparent with the scores even if you want to admit low-scoring kids to Cal/UCLA! If anything, studying for the SAT/ACT helps those kids to get better prepared for a top college by building a better foundation in the very basic math and language skills.

Given the political makeup of the state, there is no way a policy that results in fewer Hispanic students getting into top UC's will ever be implemented.

My kid is at UCLA and surprised by how few Black students there are. Meanwhile, being on campus feels like you are in Asia.

The Black population of California high school students is only 5%. UCalifornia's low scores in high school are from the increased number of Hispanic students.

6.5 black. 22% Hispanic. 34% Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It’s a shit measuring stick. It’s like trying to evaluate if someone should be an engineer by asking them their times tables quickly.

+1
Yet, universities have found that it's a fairly accurate message of how well a student does in college, including a UC study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It’s a shit measuring stick. It’s like trying to evaluate if someone should be an engineer by asking them their times tables quickly.

Yet, universities have found that it's a fairly accurate message of how well a student does in college, including a UC study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s a shit measuring stick. It’s like trying to evaluate if someone should be an engineer by asking them their times tables quickly.

Yet, universities have found that it's a fairly accurate message of how well a student does in college, including a UC study.

That's a much broader indictment of universities than you are thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s a shit measuring stick. It’s like trying to evaluate if someone should be an engineer by asking them their times tables quickly.

Yet, universities have found that it's a fairly accurate message of how well a student does in college, including a UC study.

Up until COVID they found that gpa was even more accurate. Likely isn’t now but we’ll see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS had a 790 on the math SAT and 750 RW SAT and didn't get in. Only UC he got into was UC Santa Cruz.

Meanwhile he got into Williams, Tufts, Carleton, Wesleyan, WashU and more.

Same SAT score for my son. He did get into a “higher” UC, but not Cal or UCLA.

I really, really doubt the UC AOs at other schools couldn’t distinguish these kids from kids at lower performing, predominantly Hispanic kids just because they didn’t have SAT scores. UC wants to force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs. The upper and mid tiers need a certain % of hispanicc kids. Requiring or not requiring SATs is not changing this. It will just piss people off more.

The test blind policy is already pissing off most STEM/Econ faculty.

They can still “force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs” and admit more Hispanic kids to the upper and mid tiers will a test-required policy. Just be transparent with the scores even if you want to admit low-scoring kids to Cal/UCLA! If anything, studying for the SAT/ACT helps those kids to get better prepared for a top college by building a better foundation in the very basic math and language skills.

Given the political makeup of the state, there is no way a policy that results in fewer Hispanic students getting into top UC's will ever be implemented.

My kid is at UCLA and surprised by how few Black students there are. Meanwhile, being on campus feels like you are in Asia.

The Black population of California high school students is only 5%. UCalifornia's low scores in high school are from the increased number of Hispanic students.

6.5 black. 22% Hispanic. 34% Asian.

Black students make up fewer than 5% of students in California.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/ad/ceffingertipfacts.asp
and
https://www.ed-data.org/State/CA/ps_MTIxMDE2

Hispanic: 56%
White: 19.7%
Asian: 10.3%
Black: 4.8%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS had a 790 on the math SAT and 750 RW SAT and didn't get in. Only UC he got into was UC Santa Cruz.

Meanwhile he got into Williams, Tufts, Carleton, Wesleyan, WashU and more.

Same SAT score for my son. He did get into a “higher” UC, but not Cal or UCLA.

I really, really doubt the UC AOs at other schools couldn’t distinguish these kids from kids at lower performing, predominantly Hispanic kids just because they didn’t have SAT scores. UC wants to force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs. The upper and mid tiers need a certain % of hispanicc kids. Requiring or not requiring SATs is not changing this. It will just piss people off more.

The test blind policy is already pissing off most STEM/Econ faculty.

They can still “force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs” and admit more Hispanic kids to the upper and mid tiers will a test-required policy. Just be transparent with the scores even if you want to admit low-scoring kids to Cal/UCLA! If anything, studying for the SAT/ACT helps those kids to get better prepared for a top college by building a better foundation in the very basic math and language skills.

Given the political makeup of the state, there is no way a policy that results in fewer Hispanic students getting into top UC's will ever be implemented.

My kid is at UCLA and surprised by how few Black students there are. Meanwhile, being on campus feels like you are in Asia.

The Black population of California high school students is only 5%. UCalifornia's low scores in high school are from the increased number of Hispanic students.

6.5 black. 22% Hispanic. 34% Asian.

Black students make up fewer than 5% of students in California.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/ad/ceffingertipfacts.asp
and
https://www.ed-data.org/State/CA/ps_MTIxMDE2

Hispanic: 56%
White: 19.7%
Asian: 10.3%
Black: 4.8%

Something like less than 20% of Hispanic students even meet the basic standards in Math and Reading per state tests. Forget exceeds.

UC math, physics and chemistry at least at the top six schools are hard core intense classes. Kids who score in the 700s in math on the SAT and get 5s in the AP get their butts kicked in those classes. Admissions into any major requiring those courses needs to be conditional on scoring high enough on the UC placement math and chem. If you don’t score high enough, then you get deferred to community college for a year and must achieve a 3.5 in intensive STEM courses. They could give guaranteed admission for these students if they can indeed catch up. If not then they don’t belong in those majors at a top UC. They can decide to change to an easier major or pursue these STEM majors at a less rigorous Cal State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS had a 790 on the math SAT and 750 RW SAT and didn't get in. Only UC he got into was UC Santa Cruz.

Meanwhile he got into Williams, Tufts, Carleton, Wesleyan, WashU and more.

Same SAT score for my son. He did get into a “higher” UC, but not Cal or UCLA.

I really, really doubt the UC AOs at other schools couldn’t distinguish these kids from kids at lower performing, predominantly Hispanic kids just because they didn’t have SAT scores. UC wants to force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs. The upper and mid tiers need a certain % of hispanicc kids. Requiring or not requiring SATs is not changing this. It will just piss people off more.

The test blind policy is already pissing off most STEM/Econ faculty.

They can still “force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs” and admit more Hispanic kids to the upper and mid tiers will a test-required policy. Just be transparent with the scores even if you want to admit low-scoring kids to Cal/UCLA! If anything, studying for the SAT/ACT helps those kids to get better prepared for a top college by building a better foundation in the very basic math and language skills.

Given the political makeup of the state, there is no way a policy that results in fewer Hispanic students getting into top UC's will ever be implemented.

My kid is at UCLA and surprised by how few Black students there are. Meanwhile, being on campus feels like you are in Asia.

The Black population of California high school students is only 5%. UCalifornia's low scores in high school are from the increased number of Hispanic students.

6.5 black. 22% Hispanic. 34% Asian.

Black students make up fewer than 5% of students in California.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/ad/ceffingertipfacts.asp
and
https://www.ed-data.org/State/CA/ps_MTIxMDE2

Hispanic: 56%
White: 19.7%
Asian: 10.3%
Black: 4.8%

+1. AI agrees with 5%: “ Black students make up about 5% of California's TK-12 public school population, totaling roughly 287,400 students. This population is highly concentrated, with roughly 89 schools serving a majority-Black student body, largely distributed across Los Angeles, Sacramento, and the San Francisco Bay Area.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It’s a shit measuring stick. It’s like trying to evaluate if someone should be an engineer by asking them their times tables quickly.

+1

There are kids right now at UCSD trying to major in STEM subjects who were placed in the middle school-and-below math class because they couldn't even multiply. At least the times tables would shift those kids to a less selective institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s a shit measuring stick. It’s like trying to evaluate if someone should be an engineer by asking them their times tables quickly.

+1

There are kids right now at UCSD trying to major in STEM subjects who were placed in the middle school-and-below math class because they couldn't even multiply. At least the times tables would shift those kids to a less selective institution.

https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissions-review-docs.pdf#page=50

Sample question 1, held to be at the 1st grade level:

"Fill in the box: 7 + 2 = ___ + 6"

25% of students placed into Math 2 at UCSD got that wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS had a 790 on the math SAT and 750 RW SAT and didn't get in. Only UC he got into was UC Santa Cruz.

Meanwhile he got into Williams, Tufts, Carleton, Wesleyan, WashU and more.

Same SAT score for my son. He did get into a “higher” UC, but not Cal or UCLA.

I really, really doubt the UC AOs at other schools couldn’t distinguish these kids from kids at lower performing, predominantly Hispanic kids just because they didn’t have SAT scores. UC wants to force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs. The upper and mid tiers need a certain % of hispanicc kids. Requiring or not requiring SATs is not changing this. It will just piss people off more.

The test blind policy is already pissing off most STEM/Econ faculty.

They can still “force top stat kids into the lower tiered UCs” and admit more Hispanic kids to the upper and mid tiers will a test-required policy. Just be transparent with the scores even if you want to admit low-scoring kids to Cal/UCLA! If anything, studying for the SAT/ACT helps those kids to get better prepared for a top college by building a better foundation in the very basic math and language skills.

Given the political makeup of the state, there is no way a policy that results in fewer Hispanic students getting into top UC's will ever be implemented.

My kid is at UCLA and surprised by how few Black students there are. Meanwhile, being on campus feels like you are in Asia.

The Black population of California high school students is only 5%. UCalifornia's low scores in high school are from the increased number of Hispanic students.

6.5 black. 22% Hispanic. 34% Asian.

Black students make up fewer than 5% of students in California.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/ad/ceffingertipfacts.asp
and
https://www.ed-data.org/State/CA/ps_MTIxMDE2

Hispanic: 56%
White: 19.7%
Asian: 10.3%
Black: 4.8%

Something like less than 20% of Hispanic students even meet the basic standards in Math and Reading per state tests. Forget exceeds.

UC math, physics and chemistry at least at the top six schools are hard core intense classes. Kids who score in the 700s in math on the SAT and get 5s in the AP get their butts kicked in those classes. Admissions into any major requiring those courses needs to be conditional on scoring high enough on the UC placement math and chem. If you don’t score high enough, then you get deferred to community college for a year and must achieve a 3.5 in intensive STEM courses. They could give guaranteed admission for these students if they can indeed catch up. If not then they don’t belong in those majors at a top UC. They can decide to change to an easier major or pursue these STEM majors at a less rigorous Cal State.

Even that’s not enough. Getting in as a transfer shouldn’t be 10x easier than getting in for first year admission. 3.9+ GPA minimum, 3.0 to go to Cal States. There’s an over representation of rural and poor neighborhoods. If you didn’t have opportunity, prove you have what it takes in the community college system. Engineering admission should require a 5 in AP Physics C: Mechanics, E&M, and Calculus. California spends 40% of their state budget on education- they can afford to put calculus in the schools. In the humanities, let tenure track and adjunct faculty fail students and it not harm their careers. Cal is a serious school with serious academics and it’s time it also have serious students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It’s a shit measuring stick. It’s like trying to evaluate if someone should be an engineer by asking them their times tables quickly.

+1

There are kids right now at UCSD trying to major in STEM subjects who were placed in the middle school-and-below math class because they couldn't even multiply. At least the times tables would shift those kids to a less selective institution.

https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissions-review-docs.pdf#page=50

Sample question 1, held to be at the 1st grade level:

"Fill in the box: 7 + 2 = ___ + 6"

25% of students placed into Math 2 at UCSD got that wrong.


25% of 8% of the freshman class.

[Anonymous]

It is no secret that as California's demographics have changed and you have had a rise in the political power of left wing Hispanics that the UC system would adopt policies aligned with this.

Why would the UC's change anything? They are seeing increasing numbers of FGLI students enrolling in Berkeley and UCLA. Just because it crowds out high achieving (and in the minority) white and asian students doesn't mean the system is broken. It is working exactly as intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
25% of 8% of the freshman class.

Well, yes, but also the only kids who place into the middle school and below math track are ones trying to take math in the first place, in order to be in a STEM-adjacent major. The percentage of the hopelessly behind in majors that don't require any math at all is much higher.

Anecdotally, literacy is similar; you have a bunch of strong students -- or at least strong by modern, decayed standards -- and a substantial block who are fundamentally unable to either read or write.

[Anonymous]

A reminder that California's public schools achievement are on par with Alabama's...