APS high school or private?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

Why didn't your kid take AP classes then?

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

How many students does one English teacher have during a day? If she or he assigned even a 3 page paper, how many pages would she grade in one night? How could she or he possibly check them all for AI? How could she meet with the kids and the drafts of 50 kids or more? The numbers in English class just don’t allow for real back and forth on analytical thinking, the editing process, or one on one learning. It’s the weakness many of us leave public school for — and even great public schools like APS. My child graduating from one of the elite private schools here in the DC can write more clearly than many of the newly minted lawyers. For me, that is worth it.

My kid had an amazing teacher at Yorktown for intensified english. They wrote several papers and my kid got a lot of one-on-one feedback BUT I think this is because he sought it out from the teacher. It's definitely possible to get writing instruction in APS. The kid has to advocate for themselves though.

I’m glad your kid had a good experience. My kid (at Wakefield) also read books, wrote papers, and got feedback in 9th grade intensified English. But compared to the number of books and papers we read and wrote in HS 30 years ago, it’s kind of pitiful. This isn’t just APS. I hear the same about FCPS. I assume it’s most public schools, but it’s an unfortunate trend.

I went to public high school in the early 90s and we did not really get into a serious level of reading/writing until I took AP English senior year, which at the time was the only one offered by my high school. (Might have been the only one at that time point?) Before senior year, I did about what my kids are doing. 4-5 books a year and several multi-page papers.

My observation is "back in the day" we were much more aggressively tracked into classes based on ability level and it was real tracking. Not let anyone sign up tracking. I think that would help a lot. I have seen that by around sophomore year, kids/parents who self-select and can't hack it really start bombing out.

I guess it varied/varies a lot by school then. I went to school in a fairly small southern town in the 90s, and starting the summer before 9th grade, we had 2-3 books each year as summer reading, with written assignments about the books due the first week of school. In 9th and 10th grade (so pre-AP), we read 8-10 books a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

How many students does one English teacher have during a day? If she or he assigned even a 3 page paper, how many pages would she grade in one night? How could she or he possibly check them all for AI? How could she meet with the kids and the drafts of 50 kids or more? The numbers in English class just don’t allow for real back and forth on analytical thinking, the editing process, or one on one learning. It’s the weakness many of us leave public school for — and even great public schools like APS. My child graduating from one of the elite private schools here in the DC can write more clearly than many of the newly minted lawyers. For me, that is worth it.

My kid had an amazing teacher at Yorktown for intensified english. They wrote several papers and my kid got a lot of one-on-one feedback BUT I think this is because he sought it out from the teacher. It's definitely possible to get writing instruction in APS. The kid has to advocate for themselves though.

I’m glad your kid had a good experience. My kid (at Wakefield) also read books, wrote papers, and got feedback in 9th grade intensified English. But compared to the number of books and papers we read and wrote in HS 30 years ago, it’s kind of pitiful. This isn’t just APS. I hear the same about FCPS. I assume it’s most public schools, but it’s an unfortunate trend.

I went to public high school in the early 90s and we did not really get into a serious level of reading/writing until I took AP English senior year, which at the time was the only one offered by my high school. (Might have been the only one at that time point?) Before senior year, I did about what my kids are doing. 4-5 books a year and several multi-page papers.

My observation is "back in the day" we were much more aggressively tracked into classes based on ability level and it was real tracking. Not let anyone sign up tracking. I think that would help a lot. I have seen that by around sophomore year, kids/parents who self-select and can't hack it really start bombing out.

I guess it varied/varies a lot by school then. I went to school in a fairly small southern town in the 90s, and starting the summer before 9th grade, we had 2-3 books each year as summer reading, with written assignments about the books due the first week of school. In 9th and 10th grade (so pre-AP), we read 8-10 books a year.

I grew up in NY state (not NYC area). Never had a summer reading list. Probably does vary by school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

Why didn't your kid take AP classes then?

I'm the PP you are referring to. This is freshman year - there was no AP English class offered. I think it is pretty standard to not have AP English offered for freshman.

[Anonymous]

One thing to consider on the APS vs. private question is whether your child is more math/science or humanities/social sciences focused. I find that public schools have more options, and the pace is often much more accelerated, in math, than are private schools. As others have said here, TJ is great option and I think that's especially true if you child is more math/science focused. Private schools will tell you that their math curriculum is more "rigorous" than the equivalent public school, but that is all marketing fluff and not founded in reality.

On the other hand, private schools do a much better job when it comes to reading and writing instruction. I think a lot of the benefit comes from private schools being smaller and being able to provide good feedback on written essays. I am sure that there are great English teachers in public schools, but they have to contend with larger class sizes and so they will not be inclined to provide extensive written feedback on 120 essays and to facilitate discussions in classes of 30-35 kids.

I wish that there were a school that were excellent with both, but unfortunately I have not seen.

Not to be all doom and gloom though because I think if you have a good kid with a smart head on his/her shoulders, he/she will figure things out, whether at public schools or at private schools. The data on private schools is pretty unequivocal that they don't provide much of a boost if you take household income into account. Even TJ, as great as it is, it's not a coincidence that TJ has the highest average household income for any Fairfax County Public School. This is not to say that everyone is wealthy, but there's a massive self-selection bias going on of who has the time and energy to get their kid into TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

How many students does one English teacher have during a day? If she or he assigned even a 3 page paper, how many pages would she grade in one night? How could she or he possibly check them all for AI? How could she meet with the kids and the drafts of 50 kids or more? The numbers in English class just don’t allow for real back and forth on analytical thinking, the editing process, or one on one learning. It’s the weakness many of us leave public school for — and even great public schools like APS. My child graduating from one of the elite private schools here in the DC can write more clearly than many of the newly minted lawyers. For me, that is worth it.

My kid had an amazing teacher at Yorktown for intensified english. They wrote several papers and my kid got a lot of one-on-one feedback BUT I think this is because he sought it out from the teacher. It's definitely possible to get writing instruction in APS. The kid has to advocate for themselves though.

I don’t quibble at all with the idea that APS teachers are on par with the elite private schools - I do believe many are truly excellent. But they just have way way more kids. My son’s English teacher has 10 students on his class. No problem kids. All high achievers. And it has been this way for all four years. In addition, his history teacher, same boat. Four years of intensive writing instruction from 8 teachers. Not all were perfect! But, still, that versus a singular teacher who could offer feedback on drafts over and over. I also know lots of kids at W-L and YHS and none of them are writing “several” multi page pagers per year with feedback. I’m not trying to say your experience is not true and wonderful. Just offering that it sounds unique and wouldn’t in any event satisfy my desire to have kids learn to think critically and be able to communicate that in writing.

It sounds like you have a lot invested in telling yourself the money is well spent for private school. I get it. I have one kid in private. There are good and bad teachers in all settings.

There are kids at these publics doing a lot of writing and getting a lot of feedback in AP and IB classes. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's not that unique.

It’s called confirmation bias and yes I am well aware of its existence and that I’m 100% biased towards the choices I’ve made for my kids. I was trying to share the rational for why I viewed my experience as positive. AP and IB classes will have 25 kids or more in them. The teachers are mostly great but they aren’t spending 6 hours a night line edits to these kids. But, hey, if you think your kid is getting equivalent writing instruction to my kid at a Big3, I can’t argue with you. I also don’t believe you and neither do most people who know and understand both systems. I’m not crapping on APS writing by the way, I’m just comparing and it loses …badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

How many students does one English teacher have during a day? If she or he assigned even a 3 page paper, how many pages would she grade in one night? How could she or he possibly check them all for AI? How could she meet with the kids and the drafts of 50 kids or more? The numbers in English class just don’t allow for real back and forth on analytical thinking, the editing process, or one on one learning. It’s the weakness many of us leave public school for — and even great public schools like APS. My child graduating from one of the elite private schools here in the DC can write more clearly than many of the newly minted lawyers. For me, that is worth it.

My kid had an amazing teacher at Yorktown for intensified english. They wrote several papers and my kid got a lot of one-on-one feedback BUT I think this is because he sought it out from the teacher. It's definitely possible to get writing instruction in APS. The kid has to advocate for themselves though.

I don’t quibble at all with the idea that APS teachers are on par with the elite private schools - I do believe many are truly excellent. But they just have way way more kids. My son’s English teacher has 10 students on his class. No problem kids. All high achievers. And it has been this way for all four years. In addition, his history teacher, same boat. Four years of intensive writing instruction from 8 teachers. Not all were perfect! But, still, that versus a singular teacher who could offer feedback on drafts over and over. I also know lots of kids at W-L and YHS and none of them are writing “several” multi page pagers per year with feedback. I’m not trying to say your experience is not true and wonderful. Just offering that it sounds unique and wouldn’t in any event satisfy my desire to have kids learn to think critically and be able to communicate that in writing.

It sounds like you have a lot invested in telling yourself the money is well spent for private school. I get it. I have one kid in private. There are good and bad teachers in all settings.

There are kids at these publics doing a lot of writing and getting a lot of feedback in AP and IB classes. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's not that unique.

It’s called confirmation bias and yes I am well aware of its existence and that I’m 100% biased towards the choices I’ve made for my kids. I was trying to share the rational for why I viewed my experience as positive. AP and IB classes will have 25 kids or more in them. The teachers are mostly great but they aren’t spending 6 hours a night line edits to these kids. But, hey, if you think your kid is getting equivalent writing instruction to my kid at a Big3, I can’t argue with you. I also don’t believe you and neither do most people who know and understand both systems. I’m not crapping on APS writing by the way, I’m just comparing and it loses …badly.

if you are really just worried about writing you can find a tutor for much less than the $240K that you would spend on 4 years of private school. But I agree private schools are better in some ways!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

How many students does one English teacher have during a day? If she or he assigned even a 3 page paper, how many pages would she grade in one night? How could she or he possibly check them all for AI? How could she meet with the kids and the drafts of 50 kids or more? The numbers in English class just don’t allow for real back and forth on analytical thinking, the editing process, or one on one learning. It’s the weakness many of us leave public school for — and even great public schools like APS. My child graduating from one of the elite private schools here in the DC can write more clearly than many of the newly minted lawyers. For me, that is worth it.

My kid had an amazing teacher at Yorktown for intensified english. They wrote several papers and my kid got a lot of one-on-one feedback BUT I think this is because he sought it out from the teacher. It's definitely possible to get writing instruction in APS. The kid has to advocate for themselves though.

I don’t quibble at all with the idea that APS teachers are on par with the elite private schools - I do believe many are truly excellent. But they just have way way more kids. My son’s English teacher has 10 students on his class. No problem kids. All high achievers. And it has been this way for all four years. In addition, his history teacher, same boat. Four years of intensive writing instruction from 8 teachers. Not all were perfect! But, still, that versus a singular teacher who could offer feedback on drafts over and over. I also know lots of kids at W-L and YHS and none of them are writing “several” multi page pagers per year with feedback. I’m not trying to say your experience is not true and wonderful. Just offering that it sounds unique and wouldn’t in any event satisfy my desire to have kids learn to think critically and be able to communicate that in writing.

It sounds like you have a lot invested in telling yourself the money is well spent for private school. I get it. I have one kid in private. There are good and bad teachers in all settings.

There are kids at these publics doing a lot of writing and getting a lot of feedback in AP and IB classes. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's not that unique.

It’s called confirmation bias and yes I am well aware of its existence and that I’m 100% biased towards the choices I’ve made for my kids. I was trying to share the rational for why I viewed my experience as positive. AP and IB classes will have 25 kids or more in them. The teachers are mostly great but they aren’t spending 6 hours a night line edits to these kids. But, hey, if you think your kid is getting equivalent writing instruction to my kid at a Big3, I can’t argue with you. I also don’t believe you and neither do most people who know and understand both systems. I’m not crapping on APS writing by the way, I’m just comparing and it loses …badly.

I commented that kids in public school can have opportunities to do a lot of writing and do get individualized feedback. It is not, as you stated, a unique experience. However, your Big 3 is better. You are winning. It is NOT equivalent.

You also have unintentionally helped the OP! This is what the parents are like in private OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

How many students does one English teacher have during a day? If she or he assigned even a 3 page paper, how many pages would she grade in one night? How could she or he possibly check them all for AI? How could she meet with the kids and the drafts of 50 kids or more? The numbers in English class just don’t allow for real back and forth on analytical thinking, the editing process, or one on one learning. It’s the weakness many of us leave public school for — and even great public schools like APS. My child graduating from one of the elite private schools here in the DC can write more clearly than many of the newly minted lawyers. For me, that is worth it.

My kid had an amazing teacher at Yorktown for intensified english. They wrote several papers and my kid got a lot of one-on-one feedback BUT I think this is because he sought it out from the teacher. It's definitely possible to get writing instruction in APS. The kid has to advocate for themselves though.

I don’t quibble at all with the idea that APS teachers are on par with the elite private schools - I do believe many are truly excellent. But they just have way way more kids. My son’s English teacher has 10 students on his class. No problem kids. All high achievers. And it has been this way for all four years. In addition, his history teacher, same boat. Four years of intensive writing instruction from 8 teachers. Not all were perfect! But, still, that versus a singular teacher who could offer feedback on drafts over and over. I also know lots of kids at W-L and YHS and none of them are writing “several” multi page pagers per year with feedback. I’m not trying to say your experience is not true and wonderful. Just offering that it sounds unique and wouldn’t in any event satisfy my desire to have kids learn to think critically and be able to communicate that in writing.

It sounds like you have a lot invested in telling yourself the money is well spent for private school. I get it. I have one kid in private. There are good and bad teachers in all settings.

There are kids at these publics doing a lot of writing and getting a lot of feedback in AP and IB classes. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's not that unique.

It’s called confirmation bias and yes I am well aware of its existence and that I’m 100% biased towards the choices I’ve made for my kids. I was trying to share the rational for why I viewed my experience as positive. AP and IB classes will have 25 kids or more in them. The teachers are mostly great but they aren’t spending 6 hours a night line edits to these kids. But, hey, if you think your kid is getting equivalent writing instruction to my kid at a Big3, I can’t argue with you. I also don’t believe you and neither do most people who know and understand both systems. I’m not crapping on APS writing by the way, I’m just comparing and it loses …badly.

if you are really just worried about writing you can find a tutor for much less than the $240K that you would spend on 4 years of private school. But I agree private schools are better in some ways!!!

This is my approach. We really could not have afforded private school, but we can spend some money on activities and other enrichment if needed. I think it’s valuable to stay close to home and in the community for my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're in bounds for WL, you can take more STEM focused AP classes at the school. No need to do IB which is a separate program. Students also get into top state and private (including ivy league) universities on an AP path at the school. The IB program is of course excellent for those highly motivated students, and there are elective courses open to all like IB Design Tech, which is a hands on STEM class.

At WL FGLI get Ivy, so not slots for kids of two professionals who can afford private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WL's IB program is less flexible and I think not a great fit for STEM focused kids. I would honestly suggest checking out Potomac School (which is in VA), they have a special STEM program. We are reasonably happy with APS high schools but honestly I do kind of regret not switching to private. In our case we did not think we would be able to afford it and by the time we realized we could, our kids did not want to switch and were doing well so we figured "why rock the boat." You could also do TJ, if your kid prepares for the test he will likely get in.

Why do you think their kid would likely get in to TJ? APS only sends a handful from each school

I think that because my kid got into TJ and does not sound nearly as impressive as OP's kid. If your kid prepares for the test (which does not require a prep class - there are examples of past questions online), and has top grades they should be fine. Of course, to be safe OP could also apply to private school. In the end our kid turned down TJ because the workload sounded miserable and he wanted more time to focus on STEM-related extracurriculars.

TJ is lottery now; rather than ranked order it’s lottery for everyone who makes the relatively easy testing cutoff

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We would go for Arlington Tech. It is a very good STEM school. Note that AT is not trying to be TJ.

Yes but admission to Arlington Tech is by lottery. Only 2 of my son's middle school friends got in, rest were waitlisted. I think there is a lottery for TJ also.

AT should have 1000 slots now that GHC is open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest weakness we have found in APS is the English classes. Even in intensified English, my kid has only read one book as a freshman and it was Night, which is very short. They were supposed to read Romeo and Juliet but then the teacher gave up and just had them read a summary in modern English. I think the problem is that any student can self-select into intensified classes and with English it is easier to dumb down the class than it is with math. Is that worth $60K/year, hard to say but something I think it is.

Why not take the IB or AP course if bored?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a smart and motivated 7th grader with straight As in all intensified classes in APS. His test scores are 98-99th percentile. He has a couple of national STEM awards. He participates in sports but isn't a stand out. We're just starting to think about high school. Would you apply to private high schools? If so, which ones?

We're zoned for WL, but could consider TJ or Arl Tech. We have the financial ability to pay for a private high school, but know absolutely nothing about them as we're not from this area. As parents, we both have very good professional jobs, but no particular connections or hooks.

WWYD?

What kinds of tests? SOLS? SSAT?

Middle school default grade is A,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a smart and motivated 7th grader with straight As in all intensified classes in APS. His test scores are 98-99th percentile. He has a couple of national STEM awards. He participates in sports but isn't a stand out. We're just starting to think about high school. Would you apply to private high schools? If so, which ones?

We're zoned for WL, but could consider TJ or Arl Tech. We have the financial ability to pay for a private high school, but know absolutely nothing about them as we're not from this area. As parents, we both have very good professional jobs, but no particular connections or hooks.

WWYD?

What kinds of tests? SOLS? SSAT?

Middle school default grade is A,

Probably MAP testing