What DCPS ESs have foreign language as part of their core curriculum?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Reframing (not OP) - which DCPS ES have a foreign language as a special, and for what grades? I learned to ask this at open houses last year, but only after I’d already been to a bunch. I stupidly assumed all ES would have at least some foreign language. They don’t! It seems that Title 1 schools sometimes opt to use their extra funding for foreign language, but some don’t. At wealthy schools it’s PTA funded, but some wealthy schools (Stoddert) don’t have any foreign language. Mann has Spanish that is PTA funded but only through 2nd (?) grade. SWS has French- is that in every grade?

Maury used to have a Spanish special but got rid of it a couple years ago. (Didn’t replace it with anything—always just cuts, cuts, cuts.) It didn’t do a lot for my kid, who inherited a really bad mind for languages from me, but it is a little galling that some schools are able to have more offerings than others. Specials feel to me like something that should be standard across the school system.

You say you want specials to be standard across the system, but that would probably mean:
1. Some of the wealthy schools would complain about which specials are chosen
OR
2. Specials that support student learning for struggling students would be cut.

Example: my child’s Title 1 school opted for reading support and reading acceleration special instead of art. Imagine some parents hearing their kids’ didn’t have Art special. I’d rather have principals decide how to use resources to support the student population.

Your example story is not possible, specials are specifically used to cover teacher planning. Also Library, PE, and Art (or Music) are all are required special every school must have.
You cannot replace it with an ‘intervention’ special -firstly because not all students would need it, what would the other students be doing? Second like I just said those 3 specials are required.


Some of you are unaware that it is the principal choosing to cut these specials -sometimes it’s a move to cut staff they don’t like and sometimes it’s just DCPS cut the schools budget so they have to get rid of the most ‘unnecessary’ staff member.

My example is absolutely possible since my child’s school did it last year. They had: PE, music, library, Spanish, reading as their specials. Yes they split the classes between reading intervention and acceleration. So please continue saying what schools can and can’t do.

And yes I know principals determine specials teachers besides the required ones such as PE. You are not the only person who knows the system.

[Anonymous]

In the 6+ years that I've had kids at Hearst ES, they've had 1 year of Mandarin and 1-2 years of Spanish. Even if they'd had more consistency, no one is retaining anything from one class per week (and without homework or assessments).

[Anonymous]

I actually hate that all schools have to have library. We had to cut science to keep a full time librarian when the Council passed that (unfunded) requirement and our school favored Science.

[Anonymous]

Bruce Monroe is bilingual. PK3 and PK4 are 100% Spanish immersion, then it’s a 50/50 model.
My kid is in middle school and comfortably bilingual.

[Anonymous]

At DCI my kid has specials and core classes in Spanish every day (art, dance, literature, social studies). That is what creates fluency, once a week is hard to make progress.

[Anonymous]

My family is a few years out from Janney now but they used to have several optional (paid) languages before and after school multiple times a week, in addition to an in-school Spanish special. Not sure if that’s still a thing. All elementary schools should have foreign language classes even if it’s just basics - it would be such a shame to not be teaching this to kids at the time when their brains are the most plastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At DCI my kid has specials and core classes in Spanish every day (art, dance, literature, social studies). That is what creates fluency, once a week is hard to make progress.

This. Kids who are at this level are past learning grammar like the traditional middle and high school language offerings. It’s not spanish 101 or 201, or AP spanish.

They are past that point. They are actually leaning other subjects in the language and speaking, reading, writing about these subjects in the language, This is the level you need to be at to reach the goal of fluency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I actually hate that all schools have to have library. We had to cut science to keep a full time librarian when the Council passed that (unfunded) requirement and our school favored Science.

+1, and it doesn't help that the Library/Media curriculum is poorly conceived to non-existent. It's not the fault of the teachers -- kids are generally in library for only about 40 minutes once a week. And they are doing so much other stuff during the week. It's not enough time to learn actual skills like doing library research. Usually it winds up just being a read aloud for younger kids and "go check out a book and read" for older kids.

Also most schools have poor library resources (both books and a space to put them in) and DCPS doesn't allocate enough money to it. This is one of the consequences of having smaller neighborhood schools, you can't really fund a strong in-house library at all these little schools all over the city.

Schools would do much better arranging for a once a month or once every two month field trip to the nearest DCPL, or where that is not possible, having someone from DCPL come periodically with a book cart and a lesson about library science, research, etc. DCPL is actually a phenomenal resource and it would be better for DCPS kids to learn how to use it well than to piddle around in these little underfunded school libraries once a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually hate that all schools have to have library. We had to cut science to keep a full time librarian when the Council passed that (unfunded) requirement and our school favored Science.

+1, and it doesn't help that the Library/Media curriculum is poorly conceived to non-existent. It's not the fault of the teachers -- kids are generally in library for only about 40 minutes once a week. And they are doing so much other stuff during the week. It's not enough time to learn actual skills like doing library research. Usually it winds up just being a read aloud for younger kids and "go check out a book and read" for older kids.

Also most schools have poor library resources (both books and a space to put them in) and DCPS doesn't allocate enough money to it. This is one of the consequences of having smaller neighborhood schools, you can't really fund a strong in-house library at all these little schools all over the city.

Schools would do much better arranging for a once a month or once every two month field trip to the nearest DCPL, or where that is not possible, having someone from DCPL come periodically with a book cart and a lesson about library science, research, etc. DCPL is actually a phenomenal resource and it would be better for DCPS kids to learn how to use it well than to piddle around in these little underfunded school libraries once a week.

I disagree. As a kid, listening to the librarian read a story was one of the best parts of the week. So was getting a chance to check out a book I wanted to read and actually have a nice place to sit and read it. It was a break from the normal classroom work that I loved. Turning it into a library science research block would have taken all the fun out of learning to read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many immersion parents envision their kid using these language skills a lot as adults, and assume it will be critical to their kid's career, or will lead to lots of travel or a more cosmopolitan lifestyle. It might, but it also might not.

Exactly this. Especially Spanish, which has a less than zero chance of this. Not sure what they’re smoking, but I’ll have some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many immersion parents envision their kid using these language skills a lot as adults, and assume it will be critical to their kid's career, or will lead to lots of travel or a more cosmopolitan lifestyle. It might, but it also might not.

Exactly this. Especially Spanish, which has a less than zero chance of this. Not sure what they’re smoking, but I’ll have some.

Do you think learning math is stupid too? What about art? Is that a waste of time too since your kid almost certainly isn't going to be a painter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many immersion parents envision their kid using these language skills a lot as adults, and assume it will be critical to their kid's career, or will lead to lots of travel or a more cosmopolitan lifestyle. It might, but it also might not.

Exactly this. Especially Spanish, which has a less than zero chance of this. Not sure what they’re smoking, but I’ll have some.

Disagree. Spanish is very useful in any service industry such as medicine, law, business, sales and gives you an advantage and stand out. Jobs posts in my field that commonly says spanish speaking a plus. It is the 3rd most spoken language and an asset when traveling also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually hate that all schools have to have library. We had to cut science to keep a full time librarian when the Council passed that (unfunded) requirement and our school favored Science.

+1, and it doesn't help that the Library/Media curriculum is poorly conceived to non-existent. It's not the fault of the teachers -- kids are generally in library for only about 40 minutes once a week. And they are doing so much other stuff during the week. It's not enough time to learn actual skills like doing library research. Usually it winds up just being a read aloud for younger kids and "go check out a book and read" for older kids.

Also most schools have poor library resources (both books and a space to put them in) and DCPS doesn't allocate enough money to it. This is one of the consequences of having smaller neighborhood schools, you can't really fund a strong in-house library at all these little schools all over the city.

Schools would do much better arranging for a once a month or once every two month field trip to the nearest DCPL, or where that is not possible, having someone from DCPL come periodically with a book cart and a lesson about library science, research, etc. DCPL is actually a phenomenal resource and it would be better for DCPS kids to learn how to use it well than to piddle around in these little underfunded school libraries once a week.

I disagree. As a kid, listening to the librarian read a story was one of the best parts of the week. So was getting a chance to check out a book I wanted to read and actually have a nice place to sit and read it. It was a break from the normal classroom work that I loved. Turning it into a library science research block would have taken all the fun out of learning to read.

This. Library is my kids' favorite special.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many immersion parents envision their kid using these language skills a lot as adults, and assume it will be critical to their kid's career, or will lead to lots of travel or a more cosmopolitan lifestyle. It might, but it also might not.

Exactly this. Especially Spanish, which has a less than zero chance of this. Not sure what they’re smoking, but I’ll have some.

Sorry but you sound like the typical American who don’t get the big picture that the vast majority of educated people in this world are multi-lingual. That is except Americans……..

43% of the world are bilingual. Another 17% are multilingual.

It’s also not just useful to know another language but learning it young has many advantages.

Cognitive Benefits
Enhances problem-solving skills and creativity.
Improves memory and multitasking abilities.
Encourages better critical thinking and analytical skills.

Cultural Awareness
Fosters understanding and appreciation of different cultures.
Develops empathy and global awareness.

Communication Skills
Improves overall communication abilities in boththe native and second language.
Encourages better listening skills and adaptability in conversations.

Future Opportunities
Increases career prospects and job opportunities in a globalized world.
Provides advantages in higher education and travel experiences.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

NP, and I’ve taught plenty of Oyster kids over the years. Most are pretty much fluent in Spanish.

This is true. I believe all 8th graders pass the AP exam.

Passing an AP exam just shows you are proficient. It doesn’t not mean you are fluent. Neither is just understanding.

Fluency is understanding, speaking, reading, and writing.

8th graders passing an AP exam is impressive and Adams measures language proficiency other ways. May students at Oyster Adams are native speakers.

This is an odd jumble.

I would absolutely expect native Spanish speakers to do well on the AP Spanish exam in 8th grade after years if Spanish immersion.

However, that is not terribly helpful for non-native Spanish speakers and not really an indication one way or another for how non-native speakers fare in immersion programs.

So it's actually hard to say whether 8th graders are oyster passing the AP exam is impressive or not -- I'd say it's not particularly impressive for National ve Spanish speakers but us impressive for non-native speakers but now I'm wondering what percent of Oyster 8th graders pass, what their scores are, and how results differ for native versus non-native speakers.

+1. This. As to the PP above, how exactly does Oyster measure proficiency? How does Oyster measure fluency? Where is the data to show this especially for non-native speaking kids?

Bingo! XX administrators tend to highlight this as a major accomplishment by comparing apples to oranges. The true measure of success would be to compare XX non-Hispanic students from households where Spanish is not spoken and no private tutoring is used with other non-Hispanic Spanish learners from households where Spanish is also not spoken and no private tutoring is in place.

Even worse for Hispanic students (and even for some non-Hispanic students), I have the sense that once they move to high school, they are at a disadvantage in English. The lack of academic rigor, justified in the name of being “bilingual,” eventually becomes evident, and only those with strong support at home are able to catch up. The rest are left behind.