AP English teacher never read Orwell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English teacher. Yes, I have taught Orwell: 1984, Animal Farm, and an extensive collection of his essays

…and I’m saddened by OP’s question. There are so many works out there. So many. This teacher shouldn’t be criticized because she isn’t familiar with one of them.

I had a parent call me out for not being intimately familiar with Tolstoy. I recall being horrified that my 20 years of successful teaching were being erased because I wasn’t ready for an impromptu discussion about Anna Karenina. Somehow that became such a fault, as if I couldn’t teach a proper thesis statement because Tolstoy was absent from my nightstand.

You should not be teaching

Orwell is 100 percent required reading for a competent English teacher

I wrote that I’ve taught Orwell. One can assume, therefore, that I’ve also read it. Can I keep my teaching certification? Is that okay with you?

Now what about Fitzgerald? Morrison? Whitman? Hawthorne? Elliot? Faulkner? Salinger? Hurston? Vonnegut? Angelou? Baldwin? Poe? Bradbury? Kerouac? London?

Which authors are required reading for “competent” English teachers? Let’s get that list compiled so we can start firing right away. I mean, there’s a TON of people out there begging to try out the workload of an English teacher. We should give them a chance (as long as they’ve read Orwell).

This. Anyone who's studied English will tell you there is no "cannon" that everyone has read.

And that's also not a terribly helpful way to look at the study of English. It's not about having read a certain list of books. It's about teaching how to read, to recognize how authors are employing certain tactics, and how to write about literature. No AP English test just grills you on random books, it's a test of analysis.

I was actually discussing this with my mom, we studied literature in college (she majored, I minored) almost 40 years apart and our experiences were actually very different. We both read Moby Dick, for instance, but my mom's class approached it as this very serious book whereas my class fully embraced pointing out the humor and sex jokes.

There is a canon, though.

There simply isn't and no degree requires you to have read a set list of books.

I mean how many books? And which ones? And are we adding to the Canon? The whole concept is ridiculous. If you asked 100 English professors to name say, 20 essential works, you'd get 100 different answers.

[Anonymous]

Shakespeare was primarily meant to be seen and heard, in performance. Reading it is secondary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shakespeare was primarily meant to be seen and heard, in performance. Reading it is secondary.

What's really interesting is to find someone reading Shakespeare in original pronunciation (sounds a bit Welsh). Some jokes/puns come through that we miss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is taking 11th grade DE through FCPS and they haven't read even one book. 9th grader in honors also hasn't read one book. Just "excerpts". Honestly, its very disappointing.

This can’t be the norm. My 8th grader’s English class is on their 3rd book. How hard is to pass out 20 paperback books so they can bring them home and read them?

I wonder how many students ended up buying the book to find out how it ends or how it begins or what it was actually about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think every college-bound HS student should read 1984 and Animal Farm in some HS class.

If you’re basing this on the political messages in the books then everyone in high school should read it not just some of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English teacher. Yes, I have taught Orwell: 1984, Animal Farm, and an extensive collection of his essays

…and I’m saddened by OP’s question. There are so many works out there. So many. This teacher shouldn’t be criticized because she isn’t familiar with one of them.

I had a parent call me out for not being intimately familiar with Tolstoy. I recall being horrified that my 20 years of successful teaching were being erased because I wasn’t ready for an impromptu discussion about Anna Karenina. Somehow that became such a fault, as if I couldn’t teach a proper thesis statement because Tolstoy was absent from my nightstand.

You should not be teaching

Orwell is 100 percent required reading for a competent English teacher

I wrote that I’ve taught Orwell. One can assume, therefore, that I’ve also read it. Can I keep my teaching certification? Is that okay with you?

Now what about Fitzgerald? Morrison? Whitman? Hawthorne? Elliot? Faulkner? Salinger? Hurston? Vonnegut? Angelou? Baldwin? Poe? Bradbury? Kerouac? London?

Which authors are required reading for “competent” English teachers? Let’s get that list compiled so we can start firing right away. I mean, there’s a TON of people out there begging to try out the workload of an English teacher. We should give them a chance (as long as they’ve read Orwell).

This. Anyone who's studied English will tell you there is no "cannon" that everyone has read.

And that's also not a terribly helpful way to look at the study of English. It's not about having read a certain list of books. It's about teaching how to read, to recognize how authors are employing certain tactics, and how to write about literature. No AP English test just grills you on random books, it's a test of analysis.

I was actually discussing this with my mom, we studied literature in college (she majored, I minored) almost 40 years apart and our experiences were actually very different. We both read Moby Dick, for instance, but my mom's class approached it as this very serious book whereas my class fully embraced pointing out the humor and sex jokes.

There is a canon, though.

There simply isn't and no degree requires you to have read a set list of books.

I mean how many books? And which ones? And are we adding to the Canon? The whole concept is ridiculous. If you asked 100 English professors to name say, 20 essential works, you'd get 100 different answers.

English degrees do require one to take classes that cover multiple different time periods. Gettinng through Middle School, High School, and then college without reading Canterbury Tales, Animal Farm, Gatsby, Faulkner, Hemingway etc takes a lot of effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English teacher. Yes, I have taught Orwell: 1984, Animal Farm, and an extensive collection of his essays

…and I’m saddened by OP’s question. There are so many works out there. So many. This teacher shouldn’t be criticized because she isn’t familiar with one of them.

I had a parent call me out for not being intimately familiar with Tolstoy. I recall being horrified that my 20 years of successful teaching were being erased because I wasn’t ready for an impromptu discussion about Anna Karenina. Somehow that became such a fault, as if I couldn’t teach a proper thesis statement because Tolstoy was absent from my nightstand.

You should not be teaching

Orwell is 100 percent required reading for a competent English teacher

I wrote that I’ve taught Orwell. One can assume, therefore, that I’ve also read it. Can I keep my teaching certification? Is that okay with you?

Now what about Fitzgerald? Morrison? Whitman? Hawthorne? Elliot? Faulkner? Salinger? Hurston? Vonnegut? Angelou? Baldwin? Poe? Bradbury? Kerouac? London?

Which authors are required reading for “competent” English teachers? Let’s get that list compiled so we can start firing right away. I mean, there’s a TON of people out there begging to try out the workload of an English teacher. We should give them a chance (as long as they’ve read Orwell).

This. Anyone who's studied English will tell you there is no "cannon" that everyone has read.

And that's also not a terribly helpful way to look at the study of English. It's not about having read a certain list of books. It's about teaching how to read, to recognize how authors are employing certain tactics, and how to write about literature. No AP English test just grills you on random books, it's a test of analysis.

I was actually discussing this with my mom, we studied literature in college (she majored, I minored) almost 40 years apart and our experiences were actually very different. We both read Moby Dick, for instance, but my mom's class approached it as this very serious book whereas my class fully embraced pointing out the humor and sex jokes.

There is a canon, though.

There simply isn't and no degree requires you to have read a set list of books.

I mean how many books? And which ones? And are we adding to the Canon? The whole concept is ridiculous. If you asked 100 English professors to name say, 20 essential works, you'd get 100 different answers.

English degrees do require one to take classes that cover multiple different time periods. Gettinng through Middle School, High School, and then college without reading Canterbury Tales, Animal Farm, Gatsby, Faulkner, Hemingway etc takes a lot of effort.

PP. Not really. I was a National Merit Finalist in a good school district a long time ago. I wrote above that we didn't do Animal Farm in the honors class. We didn't do any Faulkner either. I am not sure about Hemingway. I remember talking about Hemingway being an ambulance driver in 11th grade English. But I don't remember reading any of his books. If I was assigned it, I did read it. So if I can't remember it, so I found it "meh". It might have been "The Sun Also Rises".

I think we did Steinbeck instead of other moderns.

We did do a few Canterbury Tales and Gatsby in high school. I think I had Gatsby twice. I took 4 English classes in college - freshman English and three literature classes. And I have read a lot of classics on my own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read a lot of books in high school and college, but I've never read animal farm or 1984 either.

This really wouldn't bother me. Presumably she's read plenty of other books with big themes.

+1

This is a stupid complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is taking 11th grade DE through FCPS and they haven't read even one book. 9th grader in honors also hasn't read one book. Just "excerpts". Honestly, its very disappointing.

This can’t be the norm. My 8th grader’s English class is on their 3rd book. How hard is to pass out 20 paperback books so they can bring them home and read them?

I wonder how many students ended up buying the book to find out how it ends or how it begins or what it was actually about.

AP Lang, and the first semester of community college English, which is the DE taught in most public schools, are primarily writing classes, and the literature they include are selected to be models for writing. So there may be more memoirs, or short stories, or speeches than in other grades, and those aren’t “books”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English teacher. Yes, I have taught Orwell: 1984, Animal Farm, and an extensive collection of his essays

…and I’m saddened by OP’s question. There are so many works out there. So many. This teacher shouldn’t be criticized because she isn’t familiar with one of them.

I had a parent call me out for not being intimately familiar with Tolstoy. I recall being horrified that my 20 years of successful teaching were being erased because I wasn’t ready for an impromptu discussion about Anna Karenina. Somehow that became such a fault, as if I couldn’t teach a proper thesis statement because Tolstoy was absent from my nightstand.

You should not be teaching

Orwell is 100 percent required reading for a competent English teacher

I wrote that I’ve taught Orwell. One can assume, therefore, that I’ve also read it. Can I keep my teaching certification? Is that okay with you?

Now what about Fitzgerald? Morrison? Whitman? Hawthorne? Elliot? Faulkner? Salinger? Hurston? Vonnegut? Angelou? Baldwin? Poe? Bradbury? Kerouac? London?

Which authors are required reading for “competent” English teachers? Let’s get that list compiled so we can start firing right away. I mean, there’s a TON of people out there begging to try out the workload of an English teacher. We should give them a chance (as long as they’ve read Orwell).

This. Anyone who's studied English will tell you there is no "cannon" that everyone has read.

And that's also not a terribly helpful way to look at the study of English. It's not about having read a certain list of books. It's about teaching how to read, to recognize how authors are employing certain tactics, and how to write about literature. No AP English test just grills you on random books, it's a test of analysis.

I was actually discussing this with my mom, we studied literature in college (she majored, I minored) almost 40 years apart and our experiences were actually very different. We both read Moby Dick, for instance, but my mom's class approached it as this very serious book whereas my class fully embraced pointing out the humor and sex jokes.

There is a canon, though.

There simply isn't and no degree requires you to have read a set list of books.

I mean how many books? And which ones? And are we adding to the Canon? The whole concept is ridiculous. If you asked 100 English professors to name say, 20 essential works, you'd get 100 different answers.

English degrees do require one to take classes that cover multiple different time periods. Gettinng through Middle School, High School, and then college without reading Canterbury Tales, Animal Farm, Gatsby, Faulkner, Hemingway etc takes a lot of effort.

I was an English minor and the only one of those I read entirely for class was Great Gatsby (I read excerpts of Canterbury Tales for a class where we mostly focused on Piers Ploughman). It didn't take effort, I just read a lot of other things (Fowles, Eliot, Vonnegut, Heller, Spenser, etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English teacher. Yes, I have taught Orwell: 1984, Animal Farm, and an extensive collection of his essays

…and I’m saddened by OP’s question. There are so many works out there. So many. This teacher shouldn’t be criticized because she isn’t familiar with one of them.

I had a parent call me out for not being intimately familiar with Tolstoy. I recall being horrified that my 20 years of successful teaching were being erased because I wasn’t ready for an impromptu discussion about Anna Karenina. Somehow that became such a fault, as if I couldn’t teach a proper thesis statement because Tolstoy was absent from my nightstand.

You should not be teaching

Orwell is 100 percent required reading for a competent English teacher

I wrote that I’ve taught Orwell. One can assume, therefore, that I’ve also read it. Can I keep my teaching certification? Is that okay with you?

Now what about Fitzgerald? Morrison? Whitman? Hawthorne? Elliot? Faulkner? Salinger? Hurston? Vonnegut? Angelou? Baldwin? Poe? Bradbury? Kerouac? London?

Which authors are required reading for “competent” English teachers? Let’s get that list compiled so we can start firing right away. I mean, there’s a TON of people out there begging to try out the workload of an English teacher. We should give them a chance (as long as they’ve read Orwell).

This. Anyone who's studied English will tell you there is no "cannon" that everyone has read.

And that's also not a terribly helpful way to look at the study of English. It's not about having read a certain list of books. It's about teaching how to read, to recognize how authors are employing certain tactics, and how to write about literature. No AP English test just grills you on random books, it's a test of analysis.

I was actually discussing this with my mom, we studied literature in college (she majored, I minored) almost 40 years apart and our experiences were actually very different. We both read Moby Dick, for instance, but my mom's class approached it as this very serious book whereas my class fully embraced pointing out the humor and sex jokes.

There is a canon, though.

There simply isn't and no degree requires you to have read a set list of books.

I mean how many books? And which ones? And are we adding to the Canon? The whole concept is ridiculous. If you asked 100 English professors to name say, 20 essential works, you'd get 100 different answers.

English degrees do require one to take classes that cover multiple different time periods. Gettinng through Middle School, High School, and then college without reading Canterbury Tales, Animal Farm, Gatsby, Faulkner, Hemingway etc takes a lot of effort.

Yes, but at least at my T10 they have to take a few survey courses of different eras, but it might have to choose between “poetry in the 20th century”, or “women writers in the Modern era” etc . . .

[Anonymous]

Years ago I would have been snobby about it, but not nowadays. At least she knew Orwell and didn't fake having read anything by him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English teacher. Yes, I have taught Orwell: 1984, Animal Farm, and an extensive collection of his essays

…and I’m saddened by OP’s question. There are so many works out there. So many. This teacher shouldn’t be criticized because she isn’t familiar with one of them.

I had a parent call me out for not being intimately familiar with Tolstoy. I recall being horrified that my 20 years of successful teaching were being erased because I wasn’t ready for an impromptu discussion about Anna Karenina. Somehow that became such a fault, as if I couldn’t teach a proper thesis statement because Tolstoy was absent from my nightstand.

You should not be teaching

Orwell is 100 percent required reading for a competent English teacher

I wrote that I’ve taught Orwell. One can assume, therefore, that I’ve also read it. Can I keep my teaching certification? Is that okay with you?

Now what about Fitzgerald? Morrison? Whitman? Hawthorne? Elliot? Faulkner? Salinger? Hurston? Vonnegut? Angelou? Baldwin? Poe? Bradbury? Kerouac? London?

Which authors are required reading for “competent” English teachers? Let’s get that list compiled so we can start firing right away. I mean, there’s a TON of people out there begging to try out the workload of an English teacher. We should give them a chance (as long as they’ve read Orwell).

This. Anyone who's studied English will tell you there is no "cannon" that everyone has read.

And that's also not a terribly helpful way to look at the study of English. It's not about having read a certain list of books. It's about teaching how to read, to recognize how authors are employing certain tactics, and how to write about literature. No AP English test just grills you on random books, it's a test of analysis.

I was actually discussing this with my mom, we studied literature in college (she majored, I minored) almost 40 years apart and our experiences were actually very different. We both read Moby Dick, for instance, but my mom's class approached it as this very serious book whereas my class fully embraced pointing out the humor and sex jokes.

There is a canon, though.

There simply isn't and no degree requires you to have read a set list of books.

I mean how many books? And which ones? And are we adding to the Canon? The whole concept is ridiculous. If you asked 100 English professors to name say, 20 essential works, you'd get 100 different answers.

English degrees do require one to take classes that cover multiple different time periods. Gettinng through Middle School, High School, and then college without reading Canterbury Tales, Animal Farm, Gatsby, Faulkner, Hemingway etc takes a lot of effort.

PP. Not really. I was a National Merit Finalist in a good school district a long time ago. I wrote above that we didn't do Animal Farm in the honors class. We didn't do any Faulkner either. I am not sure about Hemingway. I remember talking about Hemingway being an ambulance driver in 11th grade English. But I don't remember reading any of his books. If I was assigned it, I did read it. So if I can't remember it, so I found it "meh". It might have been "The Sun Also Rises".

I think we did Steinbeck instead of other moderns.

We did do a few Canterbury Tales and Gatsby in high school. I think I had Gatsby twice. I took 4 English classes in college - freshman English and three literature classes. And I have read a lot of classics on my own.

I was also all that and an English minor, with enough credits for a major but not the full requisites. I also found Hemingway meh for what it's worth. His main value is stylistic, as is Faulkner to a lesser degree. But I do expect an English teacher to know them and have read at least something by them if they took to extra step of making it a profession.

We read Gatsby, Steinbeck, Morrison, Chaucer and Hemingway in high school. Animal Farm in middle school. And a lot of Faulkner in college, but, I only took modern lit courses. The only thing I didn't really read was Leaves of Grass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an English teacher. Yes, I have taught Orwell: 1984, Animal Farm, and an extensive collection of his essays

…and I’m saddened by OP’s question. There are so many works out there. So many. This teacher shouldn’t be criticized because she isn’t familiar with one of them.

I had a parent call me out for not being intimately familiar with Tolstoy. I recall being horrified that my 20 years of successful teaching were being erased because I wasn’t ready for an impromptu discussion about Anna Karenina. Somehow that became such a fault, as if I couldn’t teach a proper thesis statement because Tolstoy was absent from my nightstand.

You should not be teaching

Orwell is 100 percent required reading for a competent English teacher

I wrote that I’ve taught Orwell. One can assume, therefore, that I’ve also read it. Can I keep my teaching certification? Is that okay with you?

Now what about Fitzgerald? Morrison? Whitman? Hawthorne? Elliot? Faulkner? Salinger? Hurston? Vonnegut? Angelou? Baldwin? Poe? Bradbury? Kerouac? London?

Which authors are required reading for “competent” English teachers? Let’s get that list compiled so we can start firing right away. I mean, there’s a TON of people out there begging to try out the workload of an English teacher. We should give them a chance (as long as they’ve read Orwell).

This. Anyone who's studied English will tell you there is no "cannon" that everyone has read.

And that's also not a terribly helpful way to look at the study of English. It's not about having read a certain list of books. It's about teaching how to read, to recognize how authors are employing certain tactics, and how to write about literature. No AP English test just grills you on random books, it's a test of analysis.

I was actually discussing this with my mom, we studied literature in college (she majored, I minored) almost 40 years apart and our experiences were actually very different. We both read Moby Dick, for instance, but my mom's class approached it as this very serious book whereas my class fully embraced pointing out the humor and sex jokes.

There is a canon, though.

There simply isn't and no degree requires you to have read a set list of books.

I mean how many books? And which ones? And are we adding to the Canon? The whole concept is ridiculous. If you asked 100 English professors to name say, 20 essential works, you'd get 100 different answers.

English degrees do require one to take classes that cover multiple different time periods. Gettinng through Middle School, High School, and then college without reading Canterbury Tales, Animal Farm, Gatsby, Faulkner, Hemingway etc takes a lot of effort.

Yes, but at least at my T10 they have to take a few survey courses of different eras, but it might have to choose between “poetry in the 20th century”, or “women writers in the Modern era” etc . . .

I went to a T10 school and same. The historical breadth requirement encompassed a very wide range. The other required courses were a writing and analysis seminar and a capstone project seminar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is taking 11th grade DE through FCPS and they haven't read even one book. 9th grader in honors also hasn't read one book. Just "excerpts". Honestly, its very disappointing.

This is true in DCPS as well. 8th grade at Deal, no books this year. My older child is at JR. They also barely read. My kids do read on their own, especially the younger one who is very advanced in reading and bored at school. the older one is busy with APs, including lang.