Paying for law/med school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law/med/any grad school/Phd/MBA

We will pay for all. Not super rich but we have lived a frugal lifestyle to give leg-up to our kids. Education is on us.

Well, good for you and it's your money but it's also stupid. You can give your kids a "leg up" in plenty of other ways. You don't have to pay for every cent of a decades long education to do it.

No, it is not stupid at all. Especially, if you have raised great kids and given them many "leg ups". It is a waste only if you have raised substandard kids or have created a poor dysfunctional family life for them. Don't have children if you will give them a bad life.

We have given many leg ups to our children - starting from a functional, intact and happy family life, highly educated parents, loving and supportive extended family, extensive and close-knit social network, emphasis on education, healthy lifestyle, adulting skills, trilingual education, exposure to multiple cultures and travel, no abuse/addiction/adultry in family, treating all kids equally, having only two children.

So, selfish parents are quick to have sex and create children but are reluctant to pay for education? Use a condom if you cannot support your children to get the an education for a good career.

K-12 is free education in public schools, so there is zero reasons for parents to not pay for undergrad, grad and post grad education. What else have they paid for their kids? Basic needs are fulfilled by every parent. That is not the end all.

Agree.

Yep will pay if they don't other wise have scholarship. It's my right and duty as a parent. Stupid would be NOT paying for this if you can afford it. What am I going to do with the extra money anyway and what better use for it than my kid's education so they can graduate debt free. Why pay interest to a lender if we as a family don't have to. Would rather keep that interest and build family wealth.

Also so what if kid only wants to go to law school because that's how they can get gainful employment. That is as good a reason as any to go and regardless of reason, I as a parent would pay.

To a different PP - med school is NOT a "rich person profession" where most kids are paying cash. That's just a lie.

I can't understand the families who can affort to pay but don't. Seems rather illogical and a poor financial decision.

Because they may go through three years of law school and still can't get particularly gainful employment.

If you had basically no standards for your kid's undergrad, what makes you think things will improve with law school?

I'm the one you're replying to. I mean they could do anything and not find a good job I suppose. But with law school, they should get some kind of job, right? I actually have no idea about law school. My spouse and I did not do law school and neither of my two kids are interested in law school, so I haven't ever thought about that specifically.

But I raised them to value education and be smart, hard workers and to find joy in their daily lives and daily work. They are not "party-ers" but know how to have fun. They won't squander their education and they are free-loading off me. Because I didn't raise them to be that way. Like others who have posted, I have worked hard myself, made sacrifices, don't buy overly expensive things even if I could. With our paychecks, first chunk goes toward retirement, second chunk is saved for kids' education, and whatever is left is what we can spend from for food, utilities, and wants. My parents paid for my education, I will pay for my kids, and the expectation is that they pay for their kids' education. No reason to send any of our hard earned money to the bank or government as interest.

I was responding to whomever says they will pay for law school because their job prospects after undergrad are terrible.

That's not a great reason to me to go to law school. I mean, even if their job prospects after undergrad aren't great, they should still be able to get some kind of job...so just confusing why you wouldn't apply that same logic to law school for a kid that had little interest in attending law school until they decided their job prospects weren't good.

There are plenty of people that go to law school and get crappy law jobs that pay little more (or maybe less) than anyone could get just from undergrad. Only like maybe 5% of all lawyers can work at the BigLaw firms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law/med/any grad school/Phd/MBA

We will pay for all. Not super rich but we have lived a frugal lifestyle to give leg-up to our kids. Education is on us.

Well, good for you and it's your money but it's also stupid. You can give your kids a "leg up" in plenty of other ways. You don't have to pay for every cent of a decades long education to do it.

No, it is not stupid at all. Especially, if you have raised great kids and given them many "leg ups". It is a waste only if you have raised substandard kids or have created a poor dysfunctional family life for them. Don't have children if you will give them a bad life.

We have given many leg ups to our children - starting from a functional, intact and happy family life, highly educated parents, loving and supportive extended family, extensive and close-knit social network, emphasis on education, healthy lifestyle, adulting skills, trilingual education, exposure to multiple cultures and travel, no abuse/addiction/adultry in family, treating all kids equally, having only two children.

So, selfish parents are quick to have sex and create children but are reluctant to pay for education? Use a condom if you cannot support your children to get the an education for a good career.

K-12 is free education in public schools, so there is zero reasons for parents to not pay for undergrad, grad and post grad education. What else have they paid for their kids? Basic needs are fulfilled by every parent. That is not the end all.

Agree.

Yep will pay if they don't other wise have scholarship. It's my right and duty as a parent. Stupid would be NOT paying for this if you can afford it. What am I going to do with the extra money anyway and what better use for it than my kid's education so they can graduate debt free. Why pay interest to a lender if we as a family don't have to. Would rather keep that interest and build family wealth.

Also so what if kid only wants to go to law school because that's how they can get gainful employment. That is as good a reason as any to go and regardless of reason, I as a parent would pay.

To a different PP - med school is NOT a "rich person profession" where most kids are paying cash. That's just a lie.

I can't understand the families who can affort to pay but don't. Seems rather illogical and a poor financial decision.

Because they may go through three years of law school and still can't get particularly gainful employment.

If you had basically no standards for your kid's undergrad, what makes you think things will improve with law school?

I'm the one you're replying to. I mean they could do anything and not find a good job I suppose. But with law school, they should get some kind of job, right? I actually have no idea about law school. My spouse and I did not do law school and neither of my two kids are interested in law school, so I haven't ever thought about that specifically.

But I raised them to value education and be smart, hard workers and to find joy in their daily lives and daily work. They are not "party-ers" but know how to have fun. They won't squander their education and they are free-loading off me. Because I didn't raise them to be that way. Like others who have posted, I have worked hard myself, made sacrifices, don't buy overly expensive things even if I could. With our paychecks, first chunk goes toward retirement, second chunk is saved for kids' education, and whatever is left is what we can spend from for food, utilities, and wants. My parents paid for my education, I will pay for my kids, and the expectation is that they pay for their kids' education. No reason to send any of our hard earned money to the bank or government as interest.

I was responding to whomever says they will pay for law school because their job prospects after undergrad are terrible.

That's not a great reason to me to go to law school. I mean, even if their job prospects after undergrad aren't great, they should still be able to get some kind of job...so just confusing why you wouldn't apply that same logic to law school for a kid that had little interest in attending law school until they decided their job prospects weren't good.

There are plenty of people that go to law school and get crappy law jobs that pay little more (or maybe less) than anyone could get just from undergrad. Only like maybe 5% of all lawyers can work at the BigLaw firms.

Exactly. The ability to get into a law school that is worth paying for with loans, or to get merit aid, is part of what shows that you can make it as a lawyer.

The other thing that "pay for it" posters are overlooking: The downside of parental enmeshment in adult kids lives. You only see the upside of a kid potentially having access to a lucrative career. But I've also seen adults who can't make decisions on their own because they depend on their parents--who often don't actually know what's best.

Last thing on this subject: You can take out loans for med school/law school, but not for retirement or disability. Having recently cared for an older family member who unexpectedly became completely disabled, the costs were astronomical, and I'm glad that money was not already spent on law school tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most private medical schools have parents paying. My spouse is on the admissions committee of one and >70% of their matriculants have parents paying cash.
It's a rich person's profession.

Bullshit. Med school AdComs don't know that applicant parents are paying or paying in cash. Why spread lies like this?

Huh? Not bull shit at all. They find out the demographics of the incoming class after the fact. The percentage of kids taking loans is carefully monitored by any medical school as it's a concern of the office.

Uh huh. That doesn't mean they know that it's 70 percent parents paying in cash.

He said matriculants, not applicants. I believe it. I know a lot of doctors and those studying to be. With almost no exception, they are all wealthy. They’re hard workers for sure, but the lack of financial worry makes it a smoother ride.

Depends who you know then. Half of my ivy med school was on loans, the other half had parents paying. I remain in contact with many at the school who are on admissions comm as I once was, and more than half take out loans now. They also have a lot more merit to offer now.
No ad comms would know if parents were paying, btw. Only bursar would know. That is BS.

Of my current large multispecialty practice, docs aged 33-59, 40% of us took out full loans, the rest had partial to full parent support.

PP. You’re absolutely right. I should have emphasized those studying to be doctors and didn’t. I do feel a shift in those going into medicine now, I really do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a successful lawyer and I don't recommend parents pay for law school for a few reasons. First, there is a lot of merit aid in law school for applicants with good stats. Second, there are lucrative law jobs for successful law grads. Third, many people who go to law school end up miserable--it turns out that they hate being a lawyer.

Given all that, I think it's important for people interested in law school to think carefully about what they are doing, whether they are suited to it, and whether it's something they actually want to do with their lives. Having "skin in the game" is important. And I also think the ability to get into a good law school, get merit aid, and the ability to decide how much prestige you are willing to pay for are all obstacles that somebody who wants to be a lawyer should be able to overcome. If you can't get into a good law school, pay for it with loans or scholarships, or figure out how much risk you are willing to take on, I'm not sure law is really the right career for you.

For context: I paid for T10 law school through a combination of merit aid and loans. I turned down higher ranked law schools to go to a law school where I got a substantial scholarship. My husband, also a lawyer, made a different decision (HYS over scholarship at a T10). I was able to pay off my loans in a few years after graduating, save up money for a down payment by working in big law, and pivot to a career that has been really meaningful to me. My husband took longer to pay off his loans, but he's also doing well now too. We are doing well financially and confident in our ability to take care of ourselves as adults--which is valuable in itself.

I think my parents could have helped pay for my law school tuition, but it honestly never occurred to me to ask them. If I ended up in big financial trouble somehow, I am sure they would have been able to act as a safety net, and that is something I am grateful for. But I'm glad not to have needed that help.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those who are full pay for undergrad, will you make your DC use loans to pay for law or med school or help them out? Both DCs talking about law/med, and we hadn’t planned for this. Because of our income they won’t qualify for aid.

We are writing the checks for med school now but we are fortunate and can cash flow it without any concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a successful lawyer and I don't recommend parents pay for law school for a few reasons. First, there is a lot of merit aid in law school for applicants with good stats. Second, there are lucrative law jobs for successful law grads. Third, many people who go to law school end up miserable--it turns out that they hate being a lawyer.

Given all that, I think it's important for people interested in law school to think carefully about what they are doing, whether they are suited to it, and whether it's something they actually want to do with their lives. Having "skin in the game" is important. And I also think the ability to get into a good law school, get merit aid, and the ability to decide how much prestige you are willing to pay for are all obstacles that somebody who wants to be a lawyer should be able to overcome. If you can't get into a good law school, pay for it with loans or scholarships, or figure out how much risk you are willing to take on, I'm not sure law is really the right career for you.

This is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who are full pay for undergrad, will you make your DC use loans to pay for law or med school or help them out? Both DCs talking about law/med, and we hadn’t planned for this. Because of our income they won’t qualify for aid.

It wouldn't matter that you "qualified for aid." That's an undergrad thing. They don't give financial aid to law students. It's merit aid or student loans.

False. Financial aid exists for law school. Once again you fill out the FAFSA.

Yea, loans.

Some law schools (not Harvard) offer merit for students they want - usually URM. Scalia Law offers full tuition scholarships for students with extremely high GPAs and LSATs, etc. The further you go down in rank, the more money you might find if your student is a strong applicant. Remember, these schools have to report test scores and GPAs. While some of the top schools claim they no longer cooperate with USNWR, they still report the scores to the ABA, and the ABA gives it to USNWR, so nothing has really changed.

You people are idiots. That’s MERIT aid. It’s not based on financial need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law/med/any grad school/Phd/MBA

We will pay for all. Not super rich but we have lived a frugal lifestyle to give leg-up to our kids. Education is on us.

Well, good for you and it's your money but it's also stupid. You can give your kids a "leg up" in plenty of other ways. You don't have to pay for every cent of a decades long education to do it.

No, it is not stupid at all. Especially, if you have raised great kids and given them many "leg ups". It is a waste only if you have raised substandard kids or have created a poor dysfunctional family life for them. Don't have children if you will give them a bad life.

We have given many leg ups to our children - starting from a functional, intact and happy family life, highly educated parents, loving and supportive extended family, extensive and close-knit social network, emphasis on education, healthy lifestyle, adulting skills, trilingual education, exposure to multiple cultures and travel, no abuse/addiction/adultry in family, treating all kids equally, having only two children.

So, selfish parents are quick to have sex and create children but are reluctant to pay for education? Use a condom if you cannot support your children to get the an education for a good career.

K-12 is free education in public schools, so there is zero reasons for parents to not pay for undergrad, grad and post grad education. What else have they paid for their kids? Basic needs are fulfilled by every parent. That is not the end all.

Agree.

Yep will pay if they don't other wise have scholarship. It's my right and duty as a parent. Stupid would be NOT paying for this if you can afford it. What am I going to do with the extra money anyway and what better use for it than my kid's education so they can graduate debt free. Why pay interest to a lender if we as a family don't have to. Would rather keep that interest and build family wealth.

Also so what if kid only wants to go to law school because that's how they can get gainful employment. That is as good a reason as any to go and regardless of reason, I as a parent would pay.

To a different PP - med school is NOT a "rich person profession" where most kids are paying cash. That's just a lie.

I can't understand the families who can affort to pay but don't. Seems rather illogical and a poor financial decision.

Because they may go through three years of law school and still can't get particularly gainful employment.

If you had basically no standards for your kid's undergrad, what makes you think things will improve with law school?

I'm the one you're replying to. I mean they could do anything and not find a good job I suppose. But with law school, they should get some kind of job, right? I actually have no idea about law school. My spouse and I did not do law school and neither of my two kids are interested in law school, so I haven't ever thought about that specifically.

But I raised them to value education and be smart, hard workers and to find joy in their daily lives and daily work. They are not "party-ers" but know how to have fun. They won't squander their education and they are free-loading off me. Because I didn't raise them to be that way. Like others who have posted, I have worked hard myself, made sacrifices, don't buy overly expensive things even if I could. With our paychecks, first chunk goes toward retirement, second chunk is saved for kids' education, and whatever is left is what we can spend from for food, utilities, and wants. My parents paid for my education, I will pay for my kids, and the expectation is that they pay for their kids' education. No reason to send any of our hard earned money to the bank or government as interest.

I was responding to whomever says they will pay for law school because their job prospects after undergrad are terrible.

That's not a great reason to me to go to law school. I mean, even if their job prospects after undergrad aren't great, they should still be able to get some kind of job...so just confusing why you wouldn't apply that same logic to law school for a kid that had little interest in attending law school until they decided their job prospects weren't good.

There are plenty of people that go to law school and get crappy law jobs that pay little more (or maybe less) than anyone could get just from undergrad. Only like maybe 5% of all lawyers can work at the BigLaw firms.

This may or may not be a good reason to go to law school. That's a different question altogether. That's a different conversation parent should have with kid - whether law school is the right path for them. But if they do decide to go to law school (because of poor job prospects after undergrad or because they really are passionate about law), then I as the parent would pay for it. There wouldn't be a reason I wouldn't pay for it. So they may end up miserable. They could end up miserable in any career. But I would still pay for the education because that just makes financial sense.
There should be some digging deep to try to find a profession they won't be miserable in - no parent wants their kid to be miserable.

As for end of life disability being expensive and shouldn't pay for education because may need it for end of life. I wouldn't choose. I would make sure I have enough for end of life first, and then also pay for education. It's not an either/or situation. It's this AND that. This is what people mean when they say they can afford to pay. They can afford to pay without sacrificing their own potential medical or disability needs.

(Not related to this thread, but why are so many law school grads so miserable? Would they be miserable no matter what work they did, or is it something about being a lawyer?)

[Anonymous]

There is a 200k limit now for government loans for graduate school so that is going to impact a lot of people going into expensive programs for law and medical school.

I had no expectation my parents pay for graduate school at all, and they did not. They felt undergrad was enough.

These days students need to calculate if worth going to grad school with the high cost and if their career is going to pay off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who are full pay for undergrad, will you make your DC use loans to pay for law or med school or help them out? Both DCs talking about law/med, and we hadn’t planned for this. Because of our income they won’t qualify for aid.

Can't they be declared independent for grad school and apply for loans that don't reflect your finances? I think it is increasingly becoming popular to work for a year or two, particularly before law school, which would make this even easier (plus they could save up a little bit, though probably not much).

This^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law/med/any grad school/Phd/MBA

We will pay for all. Not super rich but we have lived a frugal lifestyle to give leg-up to our kids. Education is on us.

Well, good for you and it's your money but it's also stupid. You can give your kids a "leg up" in plenty of other ways. You don't have to pay for every cent of a decades long education to do it.

No, it is not stupid at all. Especially, if you have raised great kids and given them many "leg ups". It is a waste only if you have raised substandard kids or have created a poor dysfunctional family life for them. Don't have children if you will give them a bad life.

We have given many leg ups to our children - starting from a functional, intact and happy family life, highly educated parents, loving and supportive extended family, extensive and close-knit social network, emphasis on education, healthy lifestyle, adulting skills, trilingual education, exposure to multiple cultures and travel, no abuse/addiction/adultry in family, treating all kids equally, having only two children.

So, selfish parents are quick to have sex and create children but are reluctant to pay for education? Use a condom if you cannot support your children to get the an education for a good career.

K-12 is free education in public schools, so there is zero reasons for parents to not pay for undergrad, grad and post grad education. What else have they paid for their kids? Basic needs are fulfilled by every parent. That is not the end all.

Agree.

Yep will pay if they don't other wise have scholarship. It's my right and duty as a parent. Stupid would be NOT paying for this if you can afford it. What am I going to do with the extra money anyway and what better use for it than my kid's education so they can graduate debt free. Why pay interest to a lender if we as a family don't have to. Would rather keep that interest and build family wealth.

Also so what if kid only wants to go to law school because that's how they can get gainful employment. That is as good a reason as any to go and regardless of reason, I as a parent would pay.

To a different PP - med school is NOT a "rich person profession" where most kids are paying cash. That's just a lie.

I can't understand the families who can affort to pay but don't. Seems rather illogical and a poor financial decision.

Because they may go through three years of law school and still can't get particularly gainful employment.

If you had basically no standards for your kid's undergrad, what makes you think things will improve with law school?

I'm the one you're replying to. I mean they could do anything and not find a good job I suppose. But with law school, they should get some kind of job, right? I actually have no idea about law school. My spouse and I did not do law school and neither of my two kids are interested in law school, so I haven't ever thought about that specifically.

But I raised them to value education and be smart, hard workers and to find joy in their daily lives and daily work. They are not "party-ers" but know how to have fun. They won't squander their education and they are free-loading off me. Because I didn't raise them to be that way. Like others who have posted, I have worked hard myself, made sacrifices, don't buy overly expensive things even if I could. With our paychecks, first chunk goes toward retirement, second chunk is saved for kids' education, and whatever is left is what we can spend from for food, utilities, and wants. My parents paid for my education, I will pay for my kids, and the expectation is that they pay for their kids' education. No reason to send any of our hard earned money to the bank or government as interest.

I was responding to whomever says they will pay for law school because their job prospects after undergrad are terrible.

That's not a great reason to me to go to law school. I mean, even if their job prospects after undergrad aren't great, they should still be able to get some kind of job...so just confusing why you wouldn't apply that same logic to law school for a kid that had little interest in attending law school until they decided their job prospects weren't good.

There are plenty of people that go to law school and get crappy law jobs that pay little more (or maybe less) than anyone could get just from undergrad. Only like maybe 5% of all lawyers can work at the BigLaw firms.

This may or may not be a good reason to go to law school. That's a different question altogether. That's a different conversation parent should have with kid - whether law school is the right path for them. But if they do decide to go to law school (because of poor job prospects after undergrad or because they really are passionate about law), then I as the parent would pay for it. There wouldn't be a reason I wouldn't pay for it. So they may end up miserable. They could end up miserable in any career. But I would still pay for the education because that just makes financial sense.
There should be some digging deep to try to find a profession they won't be miserable in - no parent wants their kid to be miserable.

As for end of life disability being expensive and shouldn't pay for education because may need it for end of life. I wouldn't choose. I would make sure I have enough for end of life first, and then also pay for education. It's not an either/or situation. It's this AND that. This is what people mean when they say they can afford to pay. They can afford to pay without sacrificing their own potential medical or disability needs.

(Not related to this thread, but why are so many law school grads so miserable? Would they be miserable no matter what work they did, or is it something about being a lawyer?)

So…your dumbass kid can’t get a decent job from undergrad because they screwed something up…but it makes good financial sense to double down on same dumbass that now thinks law school is the answer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a 200k limit now for government loans for graduate school so that is going to impact a lot of people going into expensive programs for law and medical school.

I had no expectation my parents pay for graduate school at all, and they did not. They felt undergrad was enough.

These days students need to calculate if worth going to grad school with the high cost and if their career is going to pay off.

Actually the limit is $267k for grad Plus undergrad fed loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who are full pay for undergrad, will you make your DC use loans to pay for law or med school or help them out? Both DCs talking about law/med, and we hadn’t planned for this. Because of our income they won’t qualify for aid.

Can't they be declared independent for grad school and apply for loans that don't reflect your finances? I think it is increasingly becoming popular to work for a year or two, particularly before law school, which would make this even easier (plus they could save up a little bit, though probably not much).

This^

No. I was 30 years old and married when I went to law school. I hadn't gotten a cent from my parents in 10 years. The law school still required my parent's financial information to be able to qualify for loans.

What they don't want to do is give any financial aid to someone like Tiffany Trump. She may look poor on paper as a 20-something, but has a dad with deep pockets. Financial aid in law school is for people with absolutely no means, like living in a homeless shelter or refugee camp poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who are full pay for undergrad, will you make your DC use loans to pay for law or med school or help them out? Both DCs talking about law/med, and we hadn’t planned for this. Because of our income they won’t qualify for aid.

Can't they be declared independent for grad school and apply for loans that don't reflect your finances? I think it is increasingly becoming popular to work for a year or two, particularly before law school, which would make this even easier (plus they could save up a little bit, though probably not much).

This^[/quote

NO, discussed above. If this were possible everyone would do it, no? Instead what some schools offer is a sliding scale as the applicant ages. SO, for example, our son, applying into Harvard Law at 28 is given a financial aid package that looks more at his income (good because there’s little since he got a doctorate in law at Oxford) and less on parents’ contribution, Nevertheless, we parents expect to pay the bulk of the $121,500 fee minus the $50k federal loan. Anything else is gravy.

[Anonymous]

If you can afford to pay for law/med school - you should still take loans and then pay it off. Might as well use that capital to earn some money. And if you have to leave the country...you can leave without paying your debt.