Are progressive schools a bad fit for parents who want to see academic progress?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are trying to decide whether a progressive school is a good fit. There is a lot that we liked, but we wondered whether the academics were a bit squishy. Will be disappointed if we go in expecting to see regular and discernible academic progress?

Parent from a former progressive school student. Please don’t do it. These schools use DEI as an umbrella to cover their own incompetence. Moreover they don’t teach values of inclusion, but of partisanship and to hate everyone that thinks differently from them. It is the opposite of being inclusive. On top of that, the academics are pretty mediocre. But many parents of these schools are in denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those that say you need faith it will all come together or that have otherwise had good experience, what did the experience look like to you?

At our school, I know a lot of families are being told their kids are a little behind on things like reading, and the school can be a bit cagey about providing a lot of information to parents. I have found this all a bit disturbing.

I can offer DCs' school's writing curriculum as an example. Getting children comfortable with and confident about the process (and the wonderful rewards) of putting one's thoughts to paper was the focus during the earlier years, and things like spelling, adherence to grammar and punctuation rules, and proper paragraph structure were not emphasized over content. The kids wrote often and about everything, but their writing when compared to a child in the same grade at a more traditional school would likely have raised some people's eyebrows. The formalities of writing and correct spelling came a little later, at a time when teaching them was less likely to inhibit reluctant writers.

Ugh. This is the opposite of what most kids need and takes the wrongheaded view that learning to spell is somehow deleterious to learning to express yourself.

The PP sounds like she's talking about the writer's workshop model, which describes how they "teach" writing in our local public elementary. I think a workshop model for K-2nd is idiotic.

[Anonymous]

It's as if Fox news personalities are contributing to this forum. Reduce everything to an either- or- mindset. Either progressivism or academic progress. Either whole language or phonics. Either workshop model or "teaching". Either DEI or incompetence.

I feel sorry for all of your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PPs who said that based your question, no, you should not go to a progressive school. We tried, and prior to having kids in school, I really believed in the “have faith it all comes together, we are building good humans, let them explore” thing. Then I had one kid who desperately needed more structure, who was falling behind in reading and writing and math, and the only reason I knew was because she kept begging me for help. The school was very cagey, as another pp said, saying she was doing fine and to have patience blah blah. We pulled her out and she’s thriving in a more structured and traditional school.

I think those schools work great for a narrow portion of kids - no learning differences, reading came easy, don’t need structure - but they are not it for the rest. Unfortunately bc they need your money, they are also terrible at telling you to go elsewhere absent major behavioral issues, so you might not know until it’s too late. We have a few friends whose kids are now in major reading intervention in 3rd grade bc the school kept saying wait and see…

OP here. This is exactly the kind of situation I am worried about. How common is that at your school? We have heard of other similar situations. It makes me very hesitant. Our child has no issues we are aware of, but who can say if the kid will thrive or not in any given environment?

PP here. It was more common than it should have been. Our private tutor has a full roster of kids from our old school, which is insane given that school is 1) expensive and 2) has “learning specialists” that should be doing pull outs. Kids need explicit, direct phonics instruction. They need practice with those skills, not workshop style free play with pencils.

If you still want to explore a progressive school, you should 1) ask about what work comes home - daily? Weekly? Anything more than that - red flag. Ours would only send work home at the end of the year (!) which made it impossible to really know what was being gained. They don’t need homework (though I have found it helpful with my kids) but you should be able to see the things they are doing in class regularly. 2) I would ask for details about their learning support. If a kid needs it, how often? What info comes home? How do you know what they are working on in a given week so you can work on it at home too? Our school couldn’t do either, and actually told us that our PRIVATE tutor was our homework. Insane.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid in a progressive school and another kid in a magnet public school. In the weekly communications the progressive school just focuses on inclusion, and the magnet school on providing a solid education. You choose what is better for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's as if Fox news personalities are contributing to this forum. Reduce everything to an either- or- mindset. Either progressivism or academic progress. Either whole language or phonics. Either workshop model or "teaching". Either DEI or incompetence.

I feel sorry for all of your kids.

Nope. Conflating pedagogy with politics is really toxic - just stop. There was one comment about DEI and the rest of the discussion was about teaching methods.

[Anonymous]

On a related topic. Which progressive school should I avoid at all cost. Which one uses DEI to cover up the weak academics?

[Anonymous]

It seems that some posters want to lump all progressive schools together. Every school is different. Even within the same school, the cohort varies grade to grade. We loved our son’s progressive experience but I did a lot of reading and educating myself before we began looking. What I discovered is not all schools are equal. Some seemed progressive in name only and some seemed to be a sort of hybrid approach. The way to determine if a school is a good fit is to contact the school and ask to observe. This is what I did. DS also had a shadow day. We were then invited to school events where I was able to get a sense of the school community. I asked questions of the staff pertaining to my son once we were close to signing the contract. I had complete faith in our decision by the time we signed.

Our school sent a significant number of students on to GDS and to county magnets so I feel there was a bright cohort and the school was preparing the kids well for HS. We didn’t experience issues with disruptive behavior. I’m sure there were some kids with ADHD. Where would there not be? There was one boy who was on the spectrum and he was well integrated and included socially. The idea that having kids who are ND means a school can’t adequately challenge NT kids is ridiculous. OP is likely looking at mainstream schools. All of us interact with ND people in our daily lives even at the highest level in the workplace. Believe it or not, even physicians can be on the spectrum or with ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's as if Fox news personalities are contributing to this forum. Reduce everything to an either- or- mindset. Either progressivism or academic progress. Either whole language or phonics. Either workshop model or "teaching". Either DEI or incompetence.

I feel sorry for all of your kids.

Nope. Conflating pedagogy with politics is really toxic - just stop. There was one comment about DEI and the rest of the discussion was about teaching methods.

My comment isn't about DEI. It's about the toxic mindset of "either- or-" which is in fact a hallmark of Fox news. Reducing everything to and "either- or-" mindset ignores nuance. It was never supposed to be EITHER whole language OR phonics. It's ridiculous to think that progressivism and academic progress are mutually exclusive. It's just plain ignorant to express that the workshop model assumes a lack of teaching of that DEI is a cover up for ignorance. So no, I won't stop pointing out the danger of this type of thinking nor will I take back the fact that although all sides engage in this mindset, it is most pervasive with the Fox News playbook.

[Anonymous]

A theme of the threads in the "Private & Independent Schools", forum is parents who blame schools rather than turning the spotlight onto themselves and their kids. It's a parents job to know their kid and find the right fit. This is not easy and as a parent I have compassion for the difficulty of this task. However, making the wrong choice of school for your kid does not mean that the school itself or its philosophy and pedagogy are wrong - it was simply wrong for YOUR kid. I know we are firmly in an unfortunate era where science and research are routinely dismissed but the fact is progressivism is a philosophy and pedagogy such as workshop model and whole language are supported by research. But just as not all researched medicines work for all patients, neither do all pedagogies work for kids.

Decide what you believe in as a parent, embark on the journey to find the right fit for your kid, and if you make the wrong choice - own it, fix it for your kid, and move on without bashing what you are moving on from. You may be moving on but other kids and families are staying because that school and those methods work for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On a related topic. Which progressive school should I avoid at all cost. Which one uses DEI to cover up the weak academics?

There are no schools who use DEI to cover up weak academics. Troll somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems that some posters want to lump all progressive schools together. Every school is different. Even within the same school, the cohort varies grade to grade. We loved our son’s progressive experience but I did a lot of reading and educating myself before we began looking. What I discovered is not all schools are equal. Some seemed progressive in name only and some seemed to be a sort of hybrid approach. The way to determine if a school is a good fit is to contact the school and ask to observe. This is what I did. DS also had a shadow day. We were then invited to school events where I was able to get a sense of the school community. I asked questions of the staff pertaining to my son once we were close to signing the contract. I had complete faith in our decision by the time we signed.

Our school sent a significant number of students on to GDS and to county magnets so I feel there was a bright cohort and the school was preparing the kids well for HS. We didn’t experience issues with disruptive behavior. I’m sure there were some kids with ADHD. Where would there not be? There was one boy who was on the spectrum and he was well integrated and included socially. The idea that having kids who are ND means a school can’t adequately challenge NT kids is ridiculous. OP is likely looking at mainstream schools. All of us interact with ND people in our daily lives even at the highest level in the workplace. Believe it or not, even physicians can be on the spectrum or with ADHD.

Meh. One of the hypocritical things about “progressive” schools is that even if they pump DEI, they in fact will not admit kids with more visible autism or behavioral quirks. we’re not talking about the chief resident surgeon who somehow has ADHD but actual neurodevelopmental conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's as if Fox news personalities are contributing to this forum. Reduce everything to an either- or- mindset. Either progressivism or academic progress. Either whole language or phonics. Either workshop model or "teaching". Either DEI or incompetence.

I feel sorry for all of your kids.

Nope. Conflating pedagogy with politics is really toxic - just stop. There was one comment about DEI and the rest of the discussion was about teaching methods.

My comment isn't about DEI. It's about the toxic mindset of "either- or-" which is in fact a hallmark of Fox news. Reducing everything to and "either- or-" mindset ignores nuance. It was never supposed to be EITHER whole language OR phonics. It's ridiculous to think that progressivism and academic progress are mutually exclusive. It's just plain ignorant to express that the workshop model assumes a lack of teaching of that DEI is a cover up for ignorance. So no, I won't stop pointing out the danger of this type of thinking nor will I take back the fact that although all sides engage in this mindset, it is most pervasive with the Fox News playbook.

lol ok. Someone is using this thread to grandstand and it is not the people who are relaying their actual experiences at progressive schools. If you want to come out and support Lucy Caulkins and Alfie Kohn just say that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A theme of the threads in the "Private & Independent Schools", forum is parents who blame schools rather than turning the spotlight onto themselves and their kids. It's a parents job to know their kid and find the right fit. This is not easy and as a parent I have compassion for the difficulty of this task. However, making the wrong choice of school for your kid does not mean that the school itself or its philosophy and pedagogy are wrong - it was simply wrong for YOUR kid. I know we are firmly in an unfortunate era where science and research are routinely dismissed but the fact is progressivism is a philosophy and pedagogy such as workshop model and whole language are supported by research. But just as not all researched medicines work for all patients, neither do all pedagogies work for kids.

Decide what you believe in as a parent, embark on the journey to find the right fit for your kid, and if you make the wrong choice - own it, fix it for your kid, and move on without bashing what you are moving on from. You may be moving on but other kids and families are staying because that school and those methods work for them.

I mean sure if you are going to pay that much (when you have a free alternative) then buyer beware. But no matter how affluent, parents are not actually experts in pedagogy and teaching. These progressive schools make affirmative claims about how learning works. They don’t tell you “hey, we work best for that subset of kids that can basically teach themselves to read and write, and we don’t really think it is important to learn math facts.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A theme of the threads in the "Private & Independent Schools", forum is parents who blame schools rather than turning the spotlight onto themselves and their kids. It's a parents job to know their kid and find the right fit. This is not easy and as a parent I have compassion for the difficulty of this task. However, making the wrong choice of school for your kid does not mean that the school itself or its philosophy and pedagogy are wrong - it was simply wrong for YOUR kid. I know we are firmly in an unfortunate era where science and research are routinely dismissed but the fact is progressivism is a philosophy and pedagogy such as workshop model and whole language are supported by research. But just as not all researched medicines work for all patients, neither do all pedagogies work for kids.

Decide what you believe in as a parent, embark on the journey to find the right fit for your kid, and if you make the wrong choice - own it, fix it for your kid, and move on without bashing what you are moving on from. You may be moving on but other kids and families are staying because that school and those methods work for them.

I mean sure if you are going to pay that much (when you have a free alternative) then buyer beware. But no matter how affluent, parents are not actually experts in pedagogy and teaching. These progressive schools make affirmative claims about how learning works. They don’t tell you “hey, we work best for that subset of kids that can basically teach themselves to read and write, and we don’t really think it is important to learn math facts.”

That's right. Parent's are not experts in pedagogy or teaching which makes your uninformed sarcasm about seemingly progressive schools thinking that math facts aren't important all the more stunning and hypocritical.