Disney primarily for the wealthy? NYT Article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't completely agree with these articles. No doubt Disney has far outpaced inflation, and the quality inside the parks has gone down. Anyone who spent time in Disney World in the 1980s and 1990s knows the place isn't nearly as special as it once was. They're dirtier and the maintenance is just a joke in comparison.

That all said, you can make Disney World relatively affordable. The only "unaffordable" part of WDW is the tickets. Nobody has to stay on property. And the flights to Orlando couldn't be cheaper. I have an annual pass this year, and I'll probably end up making five trips. I stay off property most of the time and have no problem getting hotels for under $100 a night in places like the Marriott Village.

For the snobs, I do a couple international trips a year, and several ski jaunts. But WDW is easy and always fun, so it balances out my travel very well. And with passes, the incremental cost is quite low.

You should start a thread about Disney World on a budget. We are a family of three and want to do a one or two day Disney World visit before our kid gets too old to enjoy it, and what you are suggesting here sounds good to me. I have just started looking at Disney travel advice online and a lot of it seems geared at a different kind of family having a different kind of experience. I just want to go for one or two days and get the most out of it (ride the best rides while minimizing line time, eat reasonably well without taking on a second mortgage). We don't need premiere pass everything and we have the endurance for one long park day (our kid is older and doesn't need to go back to the hotel for a nap or pool time after a few hours).

But much of the Disney advice seems to assume you are going for at least 3-4 days, that you HAVE to stay on property, that you HAVE to do a lot of these extras like the character meet and greets. I don't know that we need to do any of that for our kid to enjoy it? Also I know my DH will be a lot easier to deal with if we can keep it to a day or two.

Honestly, if you're just doing a day or 2 and don't want all the extras that come with WDW, I'd prioritize going to Disneyland in Anaheim as part of a larger trip to southern California.

This is the way

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest thing I learned from this thread is that most people don't know how to spell "lightning."

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't completely agree with these articles. No doubt Disney has far outpaced inflation, and the quality inside the parks has gone down. Anyone who spent time in Disney World in the 1980s and 1990s knows the place isn't nearly as special as it once was. They're dirtier and the maintenance is just a joke in comparison.

That all said, you can make Disney World relatively affordable. The only "unaffordable" part of WDW is the tickets. Nobody has to stay on property. And the flights to Orlando couldn't be cheaper. I have an annual pass this year, and I'll probably end up making five trips. I stay off property most of the time and have no problem getting hotels for under $100 a night in places like the Marriott Village.

For the snobs, I do a couple international trips a year, and several ski jaunts. But WDW is easy and always fun, so it balances out my travel very well. And with passes, the incremental cost is quite low.

You should start a thread about Disney World on a budget. We are a family of three and want to do a one or two day Disney World visit before our kid gets too old to enjoy it, and what you are suggesting here sounds good to me. I have just started looking at Disney travel advice online and a lot of it seems geared at a different kind of family having a different kind of experience. I just want to go for one or two days and get the most out of it (ride the best rides while minimizing line time, eat reasonably well without taking on a second mortgage). We don't need premiere pass everything and we have the endurance for one long park day (our kid is older and doesn't need to go back to the hotel for a nap or pool time after a few hours).

But much of the Disney advice seems to assume you are going for at least 3-4 days, that you HAVE to stay on property, that you HAVE to do a lot of these extras like the character meet and greets. I don't know that we need to do any of that for our kid to enjoy it? Also I know my DH will be a lot easier to deal with if we can keep it to a day or two.

Honestly, if you're just doing a day or 2 and don't want all the extras that come with WDW, I'd prioritize going to Disneyland in Anaheim as part of a larger trip to southern California.

This is the way

Only if you independently want to go to California. Otherwise with the extra money you are paying for the more expensive plane tickets, hotel, and car rental, you could buy the more expensive DisneyWorld park hopper and lightning lanes for 3 days.

[Anonymous]

I think that disney IS very very expensive but I also think disney is grappling with a tough problem with over crowding where there is not an obvious non money related solution.

I also think that in an attempt to 'do everything' people end up overspending and under enjoying disney.

For example, people who save up and spend 10k to do a full like week in park with their fam in July. End up completely exhausted, totally burned out and feeling like they spent maybe like six months rent on an experience they kind of regret.

I love disney, went a lot as a kid (dad was a florida resident, i would not say i am a disney adult) and I think the one lesson people really need to intake when going to disney is that you can strategically get a pretty full disney experience for a lot less money.

I for example have a family of five. The last time we did disney we had a family wedding in florida so we were going anyway but still flight shopped a lot and got us all down there using a regional airline for about $1100 round trip (into Sanford Orlando).

I price shopped for deals on property and I got a combo deal of four nights and two days of park tickets at the Caribbean resort for about $2700. We did a couple pool days, a couple park days, hit up downtown Disney and had what I thought was a really great Disney experience (even better that it was late September so the park was basically empty).

We spent a little extra to stay on property because the benefits of transportation/no rental car were valuable but that was a great 5 days at disney as a family of 5 for under 5k including flights (but not including food/souvenirs obviously).

This isn't negligible of course but it also doesn't seem insane to be measured against the value we got.

Anyway long story short I think people need to be more strategic about how they spend money at disney and they can maximize those dollars more.

[Anonymous]

Wow, she paid 10% of her household income to do Disney the "average person" way. $8000 WITHOUT all the extras is crazy. We haven't been to Disney, I haven't wanted to go because of all the app nonsense. This makes me want to go even less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't completely agree with these articles. No doubt Disney has far outpaced inflation, and the quality inside the parks has gone down. Anyone who spent time in Disney World in the 1980s and 1990s knows the place isn't nearly as special as it once was. They're dirtier and the maintenance is just a joke in comparison.

That all said, you can make Disney World relatively affordable. The only "unaffordable" part of WDW is the tickets. Nobody has to stay on property. And the flights to Orlando couldn't be cheaper. I have an annual pass this year, and I'll probably end up making five trips. I stay off property most of the time and have no problem getting hotels for under $100 a night in places like the Marriott Village.

For the snobs, I do a couple international trips a year, and several ski jaunts. But WDW is easy and always fun, so it balances out my travel very well. And with passes, the incremental cost is quite low.

You should start a thread about Disney World on a budget. We are a family of three and want to do a one or two day Disney World visit before our kid gets too old to enjoy it, and what you are suggesting here sounds good to me. I have just started looking at Disney travel advice online and a lot of it seems geared at a different kind of family having a different kind of experience. I just want to go for one or two days and get the most out of it (ride the best rides while minimizing line time, eat reasonably well without taking on a second mortgage). We don't need premiere pass everything and we have the endurance for one long park day (our kid is older and doesn't need to go back to the hotel for a nap or pool time after a few hours).

But much of the Disney advice seems to assume you are going for at least 3-4 days, that you HAVE to stay on property, that you HAVE to do a lot of these extras like the character meet and greets. I don't know that we need to do any of that for our kid to enjoy it? Also I know my DH will be a lot easier to deal with if we can keep it to a day or two.

How old is your kid? I think my number 1 advice is to wait until the kid is older (unless you have a Disney princess obsessed 5 year old). That will make the trip less stressful and more fun.

The other piece of advice is to go in the off season for lower prices and a better experience.

This means that the ideal time is late elementary (kid between 8-11) so you can skip a few days of school in January or early Dec without worrying about it.

As far as costs - staying on property really adds a lot of value and isn’t necessarily that much more expensive especially factoring in free transport (no car rental needed). You can also save up Marriot points to stay in Swan for free. Or if you do want to rent a car there are many affordable hotels off property- cheaper than most places we vacation.

For the tickets, I would splurge on 3 day park hoppers. This is the most important part of the vacation so not the place to skimp!

But here is my biggest price saving tip for you … leave your DH at home lol!

I wouldn't recommend Swan for Marriott points. It's a very poor redemption value. Plus, you can get it for relatively cheap. Really I wouldn't use points anywhere in Orlando. The value is terrible compared to international resorts and some European city hotels.

For Hilton Waldorf Astoria is 90,000/night in the off season and worth it IMO but I have a Hilton Amex so get a lot of points

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the issues for Disney
-annual passes for FL residents are cheap and there are some very heavy users who live locally.
-DAS passes were using lightning lanes and it wasn't just the disabled person, it was their entire party. Obviously it wasn't every DAS person, but there were some heavy users who rode 20 rides + a day. It caused an increase in ride times for everyone.

We are pretty wealthy and would love to go multiple times a year, staying at premium resorts, but I can't convince DH to return. His #1 beef is with how crowded it is. Even though you're paying $$$, you get an insanely crowded park with obnoxious wait times. 60-90 minutes for my 3 year old to ride Ariel during the lowest month of the year, during a week day? It's so unenjoyable because of the wait times. And we also spent most of the day on our phones trying to book lightning lanes. It wasn't like this before with Fast pass.

Disabled children wanting to ride with their parents (the horror!) is not what is making lines long for you.

I think the problem was not disabled children but rather "disabled" children. A lot of people faking it or using disabilities that don't actually cause problems, and then bringing 10-15 people with them. I'm sorry you're depressed, Marsha, but just pop a prozac and in line like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't completely agree with these articles. No doubt Disney has far outpaced inflation, and the quality inside the parks has gone down. Anyone who spent time in Disney World in the 1980s and 1990s knows the place isn't nearly as special as it once was. They're dirtier and the maintenance is just a joke in comparison.

That all said, you can make Disney World relatively affordable. The only "unaffordable" part of WDW is the tickets. Nobody has to stay on property. And the flights to Orlando couldn't be cheaper. I have an annual pass this year, and I'll probably end up making five trips. I stay off property most of the time and have no problem getting hotels for under $100 a night in places like the Marriott Village.

For the snobs, I do a couple international trips a year, and several ski jaunts. But WDW is easy and always fun, so it balances out my travel very well. And with passes, the incremental cost is quite low.

You should start a thread about Disney World on a budget. We are a family of three and want to do a one or two day Disney World visit before our kid gets too old to enjoy it, and what you are suggesting here sounds good to me. I have just started looking at Disney travel advice online and a lot of it seems geared at a different kind of family having a different kind of experience. I just want to go for one or two days and get the most out of it (ride the best rides while minimizing line time, eat reasonably well without taking on a second mortgage). We don't need premiere pass everything and we have the endurance for one long park day (our kid is older and doesn't need to go back to the hotel for a nap or pool time after a few hours).

But much of the Disney advice seems to assume you are going for at least 3-4 days, that you HAVE to stay on property, that you HAVE to do a lot of these extras like the character meet and greets. I don't know that we need to do any of that for our kid to enjoy it? Also I know my DH will be a lot easier to deal with if we can keep it to a day or two.

How old is your kid? I think my number 1 advice is to wait until the kid is older (unless you have a Disney princess obsessed 5 year old). That will make the trip less stressful and more fun.

The other piece of advice is to go in the off season for lower prices and a better experience.

This means that the ideal time is late elementary (kid between 8-11) so you can skip a few days of school in January or early Dec without worrying about it.

As far as costs - staying on property really adds a lot of value and isn’t necessarily that much more expensive especially factoring in free transport (no car rental needed). You can also save up Marriot points to stay in Swan for free. Or if you do want to rent a car there are many affordable hotels off property- cheaper than most places we vacation.

For the tickets, I would splurge on 3 day park hoppers. This is the most important part of the vacation so not the place to skimp!

But here is my biggest price saving tip for you … leave your DH at home lol!

I wouldn't recommend Swan for Marriott points. It's a very poor redemption value. Plus, you can get it for relatively cheap. Really I wouldn't use points anywhere in Orlando. The value is terrible compared to international resorts and some European city hotels.

For Hilton Waldorf Astoria is 90,000/night in the off season and worth it IMO but I have a Hilton Amex so get a lot of points

Well I have a free place to stay in NYC so I don’t need the Waldorf I do need a place to stay in Disneyworld so Swan is a good deal. The Marriots outside the property are fewer points but Swan has a nicer pool and is walkable to two parks. It’s just more MAGIC!!

That said … I do fantasize about getting a 10 day ticket (additional days after 4 days get marginally much lower quickly), staying in a very cheap place, and just dipping into the parks on a leisurely basis with no rush. If I did that with points I would look for a Residence Inn with a kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And for those who are going to criticize: yes, I know it's an opinion piece and not an informative article. I find its points quite salient.

There's actually a lot of great info and data points in there- it's a very good example of the bifurcation of the economy. So many people here are in that upper 10% that it feels fine to us.

"in 1992 there were 88,000 households worth $20 million or more in 2022 dollars; by 2022, there were 644,000"

"Ms. Cressel figures that her seven days in Orlando cost about $8,000 for two adults and three kids — around 15 percent of what she and her daughter earn each year after taxes"

I think the basic way it works is that for those in the upper 10%, they go every year or every other year if they are big fans. If you are a huge fan and poorer, it's a once every 5 or 7 year thing.

Ms Cressel’s hassles seemed to come mostly from her scooter. But, her visit was compared to a father and daughter who spent 4 days and about $7K (before premier pass). If the Cressel family spent fewer days and invested more in the upgrades for 4 instead of 7 days, they might have had a better time. For a time the premier pass was only for hotel guests but I think it has expanded given that the family stayed off property. Full disclosure, my family used the premier pass at our last visit and it was amazing. Hardly any waits, rode everything we wanted. But we have no desire to go multiple times a year, it was a one and done or maybe in a few years we’ll go back.

Or maybe Ms Cressel could branch out and visit some national parks or cities/states new to her family.

[Anonymous]

I actually used to work at Disney in high school and seasonally during college to maintain status. I even stayed in touch with some of the friends I made there.

And Disney is a no from me. I don't like the nickel and diming by having you pay extra for ride passes. And to make that work you basically have to be constantly on your phone. A lot of the small little things we gave people for free are gone. Things like free bread at restaurants, or the free pins we used to give away, or the roaming puppets.

But also they laid off a lot of my friends who had stayed and worked their way up in Guest Relations. They were expensive due to tenure but also were the experts in making special visits work and arranging park events. The little extras are all gone now. All while prices have gone up. It's just a theme park but they made this big deal out of selling it as a cultural expectation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't completely agree with these articles. No doubt Disney has far outpaced inflation, and the quality inside the parks has gone down. Anyone who spent time in Disney World in the 1980s and 1990s knows the place isn't nearly as special as it once was. They're dirtier and the maintenance is just a joke in comparison.

That all said, you can make Disney World relatively affordable. The only "unaffordable" part of WDW is the tickets. Nobody has to stay on property. And the flights to Orlando couldn't be cheaper. I have an annual pass this year, and I'll probably end up making five trips. I stay off property most of the time and have no problem getting hotels for under $100 a night in places like the Marriott Village.

For the snobs, I do a couple international trips a year, and several ski jaunts. But WDW is easy and always fun, so it balances out my travel very well. And with passes, the incremental cost is quite low.

You should start a thread about Disney World on a budget. We are a family of three and want to do a one or two day Disney World visit before our kid gets too old to enjoy it, and what you are suggesting here sounds good to me. I have just started looking at Disney travel advice online and a lot of it seems geared at a different kind of family having a different kind of experience. I just want to go for one or two days and get the most out of it (ride the best rides while minimizing line time, eat reasonably well without taking on a second mortgage). We don't need premiere pass everything and we have the endurance for one long park day (our kid is older and doesn't need to go back to the hotel for a nap or pool time after a few hours).

But much of the Disney advice seems to assume you are going for at least 3-4 days, that you HAVE to stay on property, that you HAVE to do a lot of these extras like the character meet and greets. I don't know that we need to do any of that for our kid to enjoy it? Also I know my DH will be a lot easier to deal with if we can keep it to a day or two.

How old is your kid? I think my number 1 advice is to wait until the kid is older (unless you have a Disney princess obsessed 5 year old). That will make the trip less stressful and more fun.

The other piece of advice is to go in the off season for lower prices and a better experience.

This means that the ideal time is late elementary (kid between 8-11) so you can skip a few days of school in January or early Dec without worrying about it.

As far as costs - staying on property really adds a lot of value and isn’t necessarily that much more expensive especially factoring in free transport (no car rental needed). You can also save up Marriot points to stay in Swan for free. Or if you do want to rent a car there are many affordable hotels off property- cheaper than most places we vacation.

For the tickets, I would splurge on 3 day park hoppers. This is the most important part of the vacation so not the place to skimp!

But here is my biggest price saving tip for you … leave your DH at home lol!

I wouldn't recommend Swan for Marriott points. It's a very poor redemption value. Plus, you can get it for relatively cheap. Really I wouldn't use points anywhere in Orlando. The value is terrible compared to international resorts and some European city hotels.

For Hilton Waldorf Astoria is 90,000/night in the off season and worth it IMO but I have a Hilton Amex so get a lot of points

Well I have a free place to stay in NYC so I don’t need the Waldorf I do need a place to stay in Disneyworld so Swan is a good deal. The Marriots outside the property are fewer points but Swan has a nicer pool and is walkable to two parks. It’s just more MAGIC!!

That said … I do fantasize about getting a 10 day ticket (additional days after 4 days get marginally much lower quickly), staying in a very cheap place, and just dipping into the parks on a leisurely basis with no rush. If I did that with points I would look for a Residence Inn with a kitchen.

Sorry I wasn't clear,cI was referring to the Waldorf Astoria in Orlando. I think that is a good deal and what we did when we went to Universal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the issues for Disney
-annual passes for FL residents are cheap and there are some very heavy users who live locally.
-DAS passes were using lightning lanes and it wasn't just the disabled person, it was their entire party. Obviously it wasn't every DAS person, but there were some heavy users who rode 20 rides + a day. It caused an increase in ride times for everyone.

We are pretty wealthy and would love to go multiple times a year, staying at premium resorts, but I can't convince DH to return. His #1 beef is with how crowded it is. Even though you're paying $$$, you get an insanely crowded park with obnoxious wait times. 60-90 minutes for my 3 year old to ride Ariel during the lowest month of the year, during a week day? It's so unenjoyable because of the wait times. And we also spent most of the day on our phones trying to book lightning lanes. It wasn't like this before with Fast pass.

Same. Can't get my spouse to go. And I hate staring at my phone all day. You should try Universal. It's actually easier to do without the constant phone staring. Plus maybe your spouse will like EPIC Universe if he's a Nintendo person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cost is outrageous. We are in the “wealthy” tier but it’s too much for us. However, the market tells us that it is not for the wealthy. Or, not just for the wealthy. That place is busting at the seams.

We went last summer for a wedding. The bride and groom weren’t wealthy and they go every year. Same with many of the guests. As long as people are making it work and pay those insane prices, Disney will keep charging them. For us? It’s too high and we’re not going back.

Flights to Orlando and hotels are relatively cheaper than a lot of other vacations. Even food at Disney is comparatively affordable. It’s really the tickets that are the added cost; but a lot of people can save up annually for the he ticket.

The money isn't what's keeping people away, it's the crowding and wait times.

I actually wonder if that's why EPIC Universe is not allowing annual pass holders to use their passes. I think they're trying to change the game so that people will come from farther away, spend more money, and actually enjoy it. They're not even letting staff have discounted park entrance right now. They have to pay up like the rest of us schmos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the issues for Disney
-annual passes for FL residents are cheap and there are some very heavy users who live locally.
-DAS passes were using lightning lanes and it wasn't just the disabled person, it was their entire party. Obviously it wasn't every DAS person, but there were some heavy users who rode 20 rides + a day. It caused an increase in ride times for everyone.

We are pretty wealthy and would love to go multiple times a year, staying at premium resorts, but I can't convince DH to return. His #1 beef is with how crowded it is. Even though you're paying $$$, you get an insanely crowded park with obnoxious wait times. 60-90 minutes for my 3 year old to ride Ariel during the lowest month of the year, during a week day? It's so unenjoyable because of the wait times. And we also spent most of the day on our phones trying to book lightning lanes. It wasn't like this before with Fast pass.

Same. Can't get my spouse to go. And I hate staring at my phone all day. You should try Universal. It's actually easier to do without the constant phone staring. Plus maybe your spouse will like EPIC Universe if he's a Nintendo person.

I preferred universal even though they have fewer rides for me as a person who is screen sensitive. You don't have to bother with reservations or criss-crossing the park. We basically did everything in order (went off season) we are excited to go to Epic Universe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are wealthy people with advanced degrees and are not from the south or Midwest, are not overweight, and we love Disney and so do our kids (now teens.) We go every 18 months or so (among lots of different vacations) and occasionally do a Disney Cruise. It’s not in lieu of other travel, but in addition to. I refuse to go to other theme parks that are not Disney/Universal. Kings Dominion and Hershey - no thanks.

You are missing out if you're not going to Busch Gardens Williamsburg. The landscaping alone makes it worth the visit. I find it much more enjoyable than Hershey.