Need advice: AP Stat vs AP Calc AB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have kids accepted to selective colleges without AP Calculus?

DC is a strong applicant, but math has been a weakness. I would prefer DC take AP Stats senior year as a humanities major. He has strong ECs and awards in his area of interest. He is definitely not studying STEM. The drop deadline is coming up soon so wanted to ask here.

Every student will be considered in the context of their peers. So if this is a good school where most of the college bound students are taking Calculus AB or Calculus BC or Multivariable, the student taking Stats is going to be at a distinct disadvantage at selective colleges. Rigor is a big thing that colleges look at. And Stats are weak rigor, which is going to hurt even for likely humanities students.

Most selective colleges do not admit by major. Likely Art History majors don't just waltz into Princeton. At schools like Princeton, the only students that didn't take Calculus BC - the most popular AP class taken by Princeton students - would be students from private schools that don't offer AP classes, as well as students, usually FGLI, from crappy public high schools that also don't offer AP level math. That's it. An unhooked student from a well-resourced high school that chooses Stats while most of their peers take Calculus has effectively zero chance of admission to a T20 school today. At this level, a likely humanities major can get by with Calculus AB, but refusing to take Calculus all together is a very quick journey to the rejection pile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have kids accepted to selective colleges without AP Calculus?

DC is a strong applicant, but math has been a weakness. I would prefer DC take AP Stats senior year as a humanities major. He has strong ECs and awards in his area of interest. He is definitely not studying STEM. The drop deadline is coming up soon so wanted to ask here.

Every student will be considered in the context of their peers. So if this is a good school where most of the college bound students are taking Calculus AB or Calculus BC or Multivariable, the student taking Stats is going to be at a distinct disadvantage at selective colleges. Rigor is a big thing that colleges look at. And Stats are weak rigor, which is going to hurt even for likely humanities students.

Most selective colleges do not admit by major. Likely Art History majors don't just waltz into Princeton. At schools like Princeton, the only students that didn't take Calculus BC - the most popular AP class taken by Princeton students - would be students from private schools that don't offer AP classes, as well as students, usually FGLI, from crappy public high schools that also don't offer AP level math. That's it. An unhooked student from a well-resourced high school that chooses Stats while most of their peers take Calculus has effectively zero chance of admission to a T20 school today. At this level, a likely humanities major can get by with Calculus AB, but refusing to take Calculus all together is a very quick journey to the rejection pile.

Agreed that colleges consistently speak of rigor in the context of the students high school is of paramount importance. But we also have to note that it is in the context of assessing if the student will be successful at the institution and demonstrating fit with their curriculum. While yes, if there are a couple of competitive students vying for a spot and all else is equal *perhaps* this will tip the scale in favor of the student that took Calc. But all else equal is generally not the case. If the student without calc had characteristics or qualities the college seeks, ECs that demontrate grit, compassion, leadership or otherwise. I could see this easily tip the scales in Stat students direction.

But your note of school context is important. The challenge this student might face is they are up against several high-flyers in their school. Some of which may do it all. AP Calc BC, Physics C, Chem AND AP Lang, Lit, French, Euro, US History, etc AND have great ECs AND.... When comes down to a game of inches, little things become differentiators

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have kids accepted to selective colleges without AP Calculus?

DC is a strong applicant, but math has been a weakness. I would prefer DC take AP Stats senior year as a humanities major. He has strong ECs and awards in his area of interest. He is definitely not studying STEM. The drop deadline is coming up soon so wanted to ask here.

Every student will be considered in the context of their peers. So if this is a good school where most of the college bound students are taking Calculus AB or Calculus BC or Multivariable, the student taking Stats is going to be at a distinct disadvantage at selective colleges. Rigor is a big thing that colleges look at. And Stats are weak rigor, which is going to hurt even for likely humanities students.

Most selective colleges do not admit by major. Likely Art History majors don't just waltz into Princeton. At schools like Princeton, the only students that didn't take Calculus BC - the most popular AP class taken by Princeton students - would be students from private schools that don't offer AP classes, as well as students, usually FGLI, from crappy public high schools that also don't offer AP level math. That's it. An unhooked student from a well-resourced high school that chooses Stats while most of their peers take Calculus has effectively zero chance of admission to a T20 school today. At this level, a likely humanities major can get by with Calculus AB, but refusing to take Calculus all together is a very quick journey to the rejection pile.

Agreed that colleges consistently speak of rigor in the context of the students high school is of paramount importance. But we also have to note that it is in the context of assessing if the student will be successful at the institution and demonstrating fit with their curriculum. While yes, if there are a couple of competitive students vying for a spot and all else is equal *perhaps* this will tip the scale in favor of the student that took Calc. But all else equal is generally not the case. If the student without calc had characteristics or qualities the college seeks, ECs that demontrate grit, compassion, leadership or otherwise. I could see this easily tip the scales in Stat students direction.

But your note of school context is important. The challenge this student might face is they are up against several high-flyers in their school. Some of which may do it all. AP Calc BC, Physics C, Chem AND AP Lang, Lit, French, Euro, US History, etc AND have great ECs AND.... When comes down to a game of inches, little things become differentiators

This is just not accurate for high stats schools and unhooked kids. Kid does not need to be THE #1 gpa kid with the highest rigor for a top 15ish school, but needs to be in the top grouping for rigor and gpa. No school will look at a unhooked stats-taker and take him above an unhooked
calc-taker. Stop spreading misinformation about how this “perhaps” tips the scales. Highly ranked schools are very upfront: we want THE most rigorous path and high grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have kids accepted to selective colleges without AP Calculus?

DC is a strong applicant, but math has been a weakness. I would prefer DC take AP Stats senior year as a humanities major. He has strong ECs and awards in his area of interest. He is definitely not studying STEM. The drop deadline is coming up soon so wanted to ask here.

Every student will be considered in the context of their peers. So if this is a good school where most of the college bound students are taking Calculus AB or Calculus BC or Multivariable, the student taking Stats is going to be at a distinct disadvantage at selective colleges. Rigor is a big thing that colleges look at. And Stats are weak rigor, which is going to hurt even for likely humanities students.

Most selective colleges do not admit by major. Likely Art History majors don't just waltz into Princeton. At schools like Princeton, the only students that didn't take Calculus BC - the most popular AP class taken by Princeton students - would be students from private schools that don't offer AP classes, as well as students, usually FGLI, from crappy public high schools that also don't offer AP level math. That's it. An unhooked student from a well-resourced high school that chooses Stats while most of their peers take Calculus has effectively zero chance of admission to a T20 school today. At this level, a likely humanities major can get by with Calculus AB, but refusing to take Calculus all together is a very quick journey to the rejection pile.

Agreed that colleges consistently speak of rigor in the context of the students high school is of paramount importance. But we also have to note that it is in the context of assessing if the student will be successful at the institution and demonstrating fit with their curriculum. While yes, if there are a couple of competitive students vying for a spot and all else is equal *perhaps* this will tip the scale in favor of the student that took Calc. But all else equal is generally not the case. If the student without calc had characteristics or qualities the college seeks, ECs that demontrate grit, compassion, leadership or otherwise. I could see this easily tip the scales in Stat students direction.

But your note of school context is important. The challenge this student might face is they are up against several high-flyers in their school. Some of which may do it all. AP Calc BC, Physics C, Chem AND AP Lang, Lit, French, Euro, US History, etc AND have great ECs AND.... When comes down to a game of inches, little things become differentiators

Anecdotally, I’ve seen this at our high school. 20-30 applicants for one college, and the one unhooked kid who gets in has a couple Bs and stopped at AB Calc, when I’m assuming by school data the other kids had BC and beyond and all As.

The one kid to another Ivy is talented in the arts and schedule might not be as rigorous (but still “most rigorous”) as the other 30 applicants.

It’s important to have the most rigorous box checked… then they move onto the rest of the application.

Maybe state schools do it differently. But looking at the UC acceptances at our school, it’s holistic after you pass the basic rigor test, which doesn’t necessarily include Calc or even APUSH,

[Anonymous]

Also adding having AP Stats at our school doesn’t preclude you from having the “most rigorous” box checked. Neither does not having APUSH or AP Physics etc. It’s based on the totality of your schedule and number of APs based on what the school allows. No one gets an edge piling on outside APs or taking linear algebra at a CC in terms of box checked although you can submit outside stuff to colleges separately. That kind of gaming doesn’t send to work based on results we see in our community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have kids accepted to selective colleges without AP Calculus?

DC is a strong applicant, but math has been a weakness. I would prefer DC take AP Stats senior year as a humanities major. He has strong ECs and awards in his area of interest. He is definitely not studying STEM. The drop deadline is coming up soon so wanted to ask here.

Every student will be considered in the context of their peers. So if this is a good school where most of the college bound students are taking Calculus AB or Calculus BC or Multivariable, the student taking Stats is going to be at a distinct disadvantage at selective colleges. Rigor is a big thing that colleges look at. And Stats are weak rigor, which is going to hurt even for likely humanities students.

Most selective colleges do not admit by major. Likely Art History majors don't just waltz into Princeton. At schools like Princeton, the only students that didn't take Calculus BC - the most popular AP class taken by Princeton students - would be students from private schools that don't offer AP classes, as well as students, usually FGLI, from crappy public high schools that also don't offer AP level math. That's it. An unhooked student from a well-resourced high school that chooses Stats while most of their peers take Calculus has effectively zero chance of admission to a T20 school today. At this level, a likely humanities major can get by with Calculus AB, but refusing to take Calculus all together is a very quick journey to the rejection pile.

Agreed that colleges consistently speak of rigor in the context of the students high school is of paramount importance. But we also have to note that it is in the context of assessing if the student will be successful at the institution and demonstrating fit with their curriculum. While yes, if there are a couple of competitive students vying for a spot and all else is equal *perhaps* this will tip the scale in favor of the student that took Calc. But all else equal is generally not the case. If the student without calc had characteristics or qualities the college seeks, ECs that demontrate grit, compassion, leadership or otherwise. I could see this easily tip the scales in Stat students direction.

But your note of school context is important. The challenge this student might face is they are up against several high-flyers in their school. Some of which may do it all. AP Calc BC, Physics C, Chem AND AP Lang, Lit, French, Euro, US History, etc AND have great ECs AND.... When comes down to a game of inches, little things become differentiators

This is just not accurate for high stats schools and unhooked kids. Kid does not need to be THE #1 gpa kid with the highest rigor for a top 15ish school, but needs to be in the top grouping for rigor and gpa. No school will look at a unhooked stats-taker and take him above an unhooked
calc-taker. Stop spreading misinformation about how this “perhaps” tips the scales. Highly ranked schools are very upfront: we want THE most rigorous path and high grades.

If this was the case, test scores, essays, ecs, recs, wouldn't matter. You're suggesting "No [selective] school" would do this. Meaning EVERY school, regardless of the rest of the application, will kick the AP Stats kid to the curb. Come on now...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also adding having AP Stats at our school doesn’t preclude you from having the “most rigorous” box checked. Neither does not having APUSH or AP Physics etc. It’s based on the totality of your schedule and number of APs based on what the school allows. No one gets an edge piling on outside APs or taking linear algebra at a CC in terms of box checked although you can submit outside stuff to colleges separately. That kind of gaming doesn’t send to work based on results we see in our community.

It’s a rare school that gives a kid the most rigor check with no calculus. It would not happen at our private and frankly I don’t think it would happen at most schools in the DMV outside of some Title One schools.

Op, why didn’t you try the tutor route?

[Anonymous]

https://hechingerreport.org/proof-points-high-school-calculus-college-admissions-survey/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also adding having AP Stats at our school doesn’t preclude you from having the “most rigorous” box checked. Neither does not having APUSH or AP Physics etc. It’s based on the totality of your schedule and number of APs based on what the school allows. No one gets an edge piling on outside APs or taking linear algebra at a CC in terms of box checked although you can submit outside stuff to colleges separately. That kind of gaming doesn’t send to work based on results we see in our community.

It’s a rare school that gives a kid the most rigor check with no calculus. It would not happen at our private and frankly I don’t think it would happen at most schools in the DMV outside of some Title One schools.

Op, why didn’t you try the tutor route?

This. Our FCPS counselor said ap calc bc is needed for “most rigorous.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also adding having AP Stats at our school doesn’t preclude you from having the “most rigorous” box checked. Neither does not having APUSH or AP Physics etc. It’s based on the totality of your schedule and number of APs based on what the school allows. No one gets an edge piling on outside APs or taking linear algebra at a CC in terms of box checked although you can submit outside stuff to colleges separately. That kind of gaming doesn’t send to work based on results we see in our community.

It’s a rare school that gives a kid the most rigor check with no calculus. It would not happen at our private and frankly I don’t think it would happen at most schools in the DMV outside of some Title One schools.

Op, why didn’t you try the tutor route?

This. Our FCPS counselor said ap calc bc is needed for “most rigorous.”

If this is the case, then I'm glad circumstances moved us away from FCPS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also adding having AP Stats at our school doesn’t preclude you from having the “most rigorous” box checked. Neither does not having APUSH or AP Physics etc. It’s based on the totality of your schedule and number of APs based on what the school allows. No one gets an edge piling on outside APs or taking linear algebra at a CC in terms of box checked although you can submit outside stuff to colleges separately. That kind of gaming doesn’t send to work based on results we see in our community.

It’s a rare school that gives a kid the most rigor check with no calculus. It would not happen at our private and frankly I don’t think it would happen at most schools in the DMV outside of some Title One schools.

Op, why didn’t you try the tutor route?

This. Our FCPS counselor said ap calc bc is needed for “most rigorous.”

If this is the case, then I'm glad circumstances moved us away from FCPS!

But why? Don’t you think most rigorous has to mean highest math and English at a minimum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also adding having AP Stats at our school doesn’t preclude you from having the “most rigorous” box checked. Neither does not having APUSH or AP Physics etc. It’s based on the totality of your schedule and number of APs based on what the school allows. No one gets an edge piling on outside APs or taking linear algebra at a CC in terms of box checked although you can submit outside stuff to colleges separately. That kind of gaming doesn’t send to work based on results we see in our community.

It’s a rare school that gives a kid the most rigor check with no calculus. It would not happen at our private and frankly I don’t think it would happen at most schools in the DMV outside of some Title One schools.

Op, why didn’t you try the tutor route?

This. Our FCPS counselor said ap calc bc is needed for “most rigorous.”

If this is the case, then I'm glad circumstances moved us away from FCPS!

But why? Don’t you think most rigorous has to mean highest math and English at a minimum?

No, I actually don’t. But your view is same as the mindset of parents who are upset that the school doesn’t offer more APs or why freshmen can’t take certain APs and there’s not use engaging in a debate about it.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, kids who are truly focused on the humanities (not just pretending to be for an edge) are so rare that I think it's hard to make generalizations about them. If you are applying to colleges with sub-10 percent admissions rates, it is almost certainly safer to take calculus. I doubt taking stats instead would get an application "thrown out" on its own, but the very high percentage of admitted students taking calculus at Harvard and Princeton speaks for itself. That said, my humanities kid who is applying to reasonably selective schools is taking AP Stats and not worrying much about that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD took AP Calc (AB). She applied to a college where we found out after the fact that for her major, they would "only consider applicants taking AP Calc (BC)", but this ended up not true, had zero baring in her case and they offered her a place on that major.

So even when it's in writing there's not always a hard and fast rule about it, especially if they are looking at various other aspects of your application.

Which school and major requires AP Calc BC?

Plenty. University of British Columbia for one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also adding having AP Stats at our school doesn’t preclude you from having the “most rigorous” box checked. Neither does not having APUSH or AP Physics etc. It’s based on the totality of your schedule and number of APs based on what the school allows. No one gets an edge piling on outside APs or taking linear algebra at a CC in terms of box checked although you can submit outside stuff to colleges separately. That kind of gaming doesn’t send to work based on results we see in our community.

lol...nope, it does. For the high school that is strong but only offers Calc BC, taking linear or diff will make a difference. Stop deluding yourself.