why even have college application essays anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep, seen many"essays that worked" that just aren't good or don't say much about the applicant. It's all so dumb.

Maybe bring back the interview instead. They they can "get to know the applicant" and there's no cheating. Just as subjective as the essay review.

There is an entire expose of how North Koreans are faking zoom interviews and getting hired for jobs, with the interviewer thinking the person is located in the US and thinks the interviewee is some random white or other non-Asian candidate.

https://www.wsj.com/business/north-korea-remote-jobs-e4daa727?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAitrKhs1bnjXdDqeJkTYsoyL1y2MbZtN45iGdu_L46OHvz941PwvgrxBBgEMnE%3D&gaa_ts=68961f4a&gaa_sig=MOnNjDwWkphfmaNdiCuPDH85pQ18PdMBVlQHSWui3VIKYePawvs-e7V3izJYUESILf6DLQZvaYb5-U69ptB9AQ%3D%3D

Only if you do the interviews in person, which would require AOs fanning all over the country and would be timely and expensive (meaning, that won't happen).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree - essays should be eliminated - unless you're applying for, say, creative writing.

In an ideal world, they’d administer essays in a timed, supervised setting so you could see how the kids can actually write without paid essay coaches and AI.

The purpose of the essay isn't writing? I think people need to read up a bit on admissions. It is a place to demonstrate your voice, purpose, and goals. If it was just to see writing quality, they'd just require Ap English Lang and get this over with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:chatgpt is ridiculously good - just watching sam altman this am on the enhancements and I decided to put in “college essay” 500 word prompt about nature impacting and shaping my life. The result was so insanely thoughtful and authentic it’s kinda scary. time to eliminate the essay, zero protection against this - although it does level the playing field where poor inner city kid can compete with Biff from Great Falls

There was a college session kid attended at which an admission person (can't remember what college) showed participants a sample of two or three essays one being slightly longer. The participants were asked to give feedback - what they thought was good or not. Kid said most comments were "essay was good" or "the second essay was more personable". At the end, someone asked what the Admissions rep thought, and he/she said both were written by AI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, seen many"essays that worked" that just aren't good or don't say much about the applicant. It's all so dumb.

Maybe bring back the interview instead. They they can "get to know the applicant" and there's no cheating. Just as subjective as the essay review.

There is an entire expose of how North Koreans are faking zoom interviews and getting hired for jobs, with the interviewer thinking the person is located in the US and thinks the interviewee is some random white or other non-Asian candidate.

https://www.wsj.com/business/north-korea-remote-jobs-e4daa727?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAitrKhs1bnjXdDqeJkTYsoyL1y2MbZtN45iGdu_L46OHvz941PwvgrxBBgEMnE%3D&gaa_ts=68961f4a&gaa_sig=MOnNjDwWkphfmaNdiCuPDH85pQ18PdMBVlQHSWui3VIKYePawvs-e7V3izJYUESILf6DLQZvaYb5-U69ptB9AQ%3D%3D

Only if you do the interviews in person, which would require AOs fanning all over the country and would be timely and expensive (meaning, that won't happen).

So if they’re found to have lied, they should get kicked out of college. Immediately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, seen many"essays that worked" that just aren't good or don't say much about the applicant. It's all so dumb.

Maybe bring back the interview instead. They they can "get to know the applicant" and there's no cheating. Just as subjective as the essay review.

There is an entire expose of how North Koreans are faking zoom interviews and getting hired for jobs, with the interviewer thinking the person is located in the US and thinks the interviewee is some random white or other non-Asian candidate.

https://www.wsj.com/business/north-korea-remote-jobs-e4daa727?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAitrKhs1bnjXdDqeJkTYsoyL1y2MbZtN45iGdu_L46OHvz941PwvgrxBBgEMnE%3D&gaa_ts=68961f4a&gaa_sig=MOnNjDwWkphfmaNdiCuPDH85pQ18PdMBVlQHSWui3VIKYePawvs-e7V3izJYUESILf6DLQZvaYb5-U69ptB9AQ%3D%3D

Only if you do the interviews in person, which would require AOs fanning all over the country and would be timely and expensive (meaning, that won't happen).

So if they’re found to have lied, they should get kicked out of college. Immediately.

How would they find this? No AO is going to remember the face of the person they interviewed via zoom 10+ months prior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, seen many"essays that worked" that just aren't good or don't say much about the applicant. It's all so dumb.

Maybe bring back the interview instead. They they can "get to know the applicant" and there's no cheating. Just as subjective as the essay review.

There is an entire expose of how North Koreans are faking zoom interviews and getting hired for jobs, with the interviewer thinking the person is located in the US and thinks the interviewee is some random white or other non-Asian candidate.

https://www.wsj.com/business/north-korea-remote-jobs-e4daa727?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAitrKhs1bnjXdDqeJkTYsoyL1y2MbZtN45iGdu_L46OHvz941PwvgrxBBgEMnE%3D&gaa_ts=68961f4a&gaa_sig=MOnNjDwWkphfmaNdiCuPDH85pQ18PdMBVlQHSWui3VIKYePawvs-e7V3izJYUESILf6DLQZvaYb5-U69ptB9AQ%3D%3D

Only if you do the interviews in person, which would require AOs fanning all over the country and would be timely and expensive (meaning, that won't happen).

So if they’re found to have lied, they should get kicked out of college. Immediately.

How would they find this? No AO is going to remember the face of the person they interviewed via zoom 10+ months prior.

They could easily set up
Something to take a screenshot and compare it to the photos from the SAT ID scans and student ID photos when the kid is on campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what my kid did:

Spend summer (5 weeks) on draft common app (8 drafts).

Then hit a roadblock. Got ideas from paid AI (turn off data sharing) on where the weaknesses were and how to improve.
Re-drafted a few more times w/that guidance.

Asked again for specific types of examples for areas of improvement and fed it about 20 pages of notes, draft essays, anecdotes, and other personal (storyboard) information. It pulled out the most salient anecdotes from the firsthand notes to use and how to frame them and ranked them from most powerful relevant to PQ to least.

Kid framed used some of those examples (reworded though) with another edit. Its very detailed, unique and personal filled with lived experience.

Paid essay editor reviewed it with a professional/polish edit, said it was quite strong and perhaps one of the strongest seen (so far) this year.

I would love to hear college decisions for your kid because AOs constantly say they know when AI has been used. i would ignore the paid essay editor — as they did not review through the eyes of an AO, but rather an editor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, seen many"essays that worked" that just aren't good or don't say much about the applicant. It's all so dumb.

Maybe bring back the interview instead. They they can "get to know the applicant" and there's no cheating. Just as subjective as the essay review.

There is an entire expose of how North Koreans are faking zoom interviews and getting hired for jobs, with the interviewer thinking the person is located in the US and thinks the interviewee is some random white or other non-Asian candidate.

https://www.wsj.com/business/north-korea-remote-jobs-e4daa727?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAitrKhs1bnjXdDqeJkTYsoyL1y2MbZtN45iGdu_L46OHvz941PwvgrxBBgEMnE%3D&gaa_ts=68961f4a&gaa_sig=MOnNjDwWkphfmaNdiCuPDH85pQ18PdMBVlQHSWui3VIKYePawvs-e7V3izJYUESILf6DLQZvaYb5-U69ptB9AQ%3D%3D

Only if you do the interviews in person, which would require AOs fanning all over the country and would be timely and expensive (meaning, that won't happen).

So if they’re found to have lied, they should get kicked out of college. Immediately.

How would they find this? No AO is going to remember the face of the person they interviewed via zoom 10+ months prior.

They could easily set up
Something to take a screenshot and compare it to the photos from the SAT ID scans and student ID photos when the kid is on campus.

Is their an SAT ID scan? BTW, it's possible to have a deepfake where it's the kid's actual face talking during the interview, but a completely different person actually answering the interview questions. Current versions are very convincing...and within 12-24 months will be nearly perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree - essays should be eliminated - unless you're applying for, say, creative writing.

In an ideal world, they’d administer essays in a timed, supervised setting so you could see how the kids can actually write without paid essay coaches and AI.

The purpose of the essay isn't writing? I think people need to read up a bit on admissions. It is a place to demonstrate your voice, purpose, and goals. If it was just to see writing quality, they'd just require Ap English Lang and get this over with.

They can demonstrate voice and purpose in a neutral setting that’s proctored and timed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what my kid did:

Spend summer (5 weeks) on draft common app (8 drafts).

Then hit a roadblock. Got ideas from paid AI (turn off data sharing) on where the weaknesses were and how to improve.
Re-drafted a few more times w/that guidance.

Asked again for specific types of examples for areas of improvement and fed it about 20 pages of notes, draft essays, anecdotes, and other personal (storyboard) information. It pulled out the most salient anecdotes from the firsthand notes to use and how to frame them and ranked them from most powerful relevant to PQ to least.

Kid framed used some of those examples (reworded though) with another edit. Its very detailed, unique and personal filled with lived experience.

Paid essay editor reviewed it with a professional/polish edit, said it was quite strong and perhaps one of the strongest seen (so far) this year.

I would love to hear college decisions for your kid because AOs constantly say they know when AI has been used. i would ignore the paid essay editor — as they did not review through the eyes of an AO, but rather an editor.

NP. Colleges admissions officials overestimate their ability to discern ethics. In fact, they tend to admit students who are the least ethical and have the most hustle.

[Anonymous]

This whole situation is very sad. Essays were always a good place for thoughtful students to distinguish themselves.

And being able to write something well is a huge predictor for subsequent success - logical thought, organization, being articulate, understanding readers. These are very useful skills in life.

I have Gen Z kids. Great kids. But tech and all its possibilities threaten to ruin them as functional, thoughtful, empathetic, and useful members of society.

Honestly, I think Silicon Valley is basically Satan at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep, seen many"essays that worked" that just aren't good or don't say much about the applicant. It's all so dumb.

Maybe bring back the interview instead. They they can "get to know the applicant" and there's no cheating. Just as subjective as the essay review.

There is an entire expose of how North Koreans are faking zoom interviews and getting hired for jobs, with the interviewer thinking the person is located in the US and thinks the interviewee is some random white or other non-Asian candidate.

https://www.wsj.com/business/north-korea-remote-jobs-e4daa727?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=ASWzDAitrKhs1bnjXdDqeJkTYsoyL1y2MbZtN45iGdu_L46OHvz941PwvgrxBBgEMnE%3D&gaa_ts=68961f4a&gaa_sig=MOnNjDwWkphfmaNdiCuPDH85pQ18PdMBVlQHSWui3VIKYePawvs-e7V3izJYUESILf6DLQZvaYb5-U69ptB9AQ%3D%3D

Only if you do the interviews in person, which would require AOs fanning all over the country and would be timely and expensive (meaning, that won't happen).

So if they’re found to have lied, they should get kicked out of college. Immediately.

How would they find this? No AO is going to remember the face of the person they interviewed via zoom 10+ months prior.

If the kid isn’t as impressive once they get to the college as they seemed to be during the application process, that’s a clue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole situation is very sad. Essays were always a good place for thoughtful students to distinguish themselves.

And being able to write something well is a huge predictor for subsequent success - logical thought, organization, being articulate, understanding readers. These are very useful skills in life.

I have Gen Z kids. Great kids. But tech and all its possibilities threaten to ruin them as functional, thoughtful, empathetic, and useful members of society.

Honestly, I think Silicon Valley is basically Satan at this point.

true dat - but the college admissions process was always rife with corruption - chatgpt just makes it available for all

[Anonymous]

It’s not that serious. Everybody is using AI the way the previous poster did. Not to draft something but to improve something. To help with brainstorming.

A lot of colleges even say explicitly that that is OK.

Did you read George tech’s AI college app policy? They explicitly say that it is there to help you generate ideas, but that you should not copy and paste content you did not create directly into your application. But they actually encourage you to use AI the same way you would “collaborate with other people” to “brainstorm, edit, and refine your ideas” and also to “construct your résumé in the activities portion of the common app”; they think AI could be very helpful as a collaborator when you do not have access to other assistance.

They basically tell you to use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree - essays should be eliminated - unless you're applying for, say, creative writing.

In an ideal world, they’d administer essays in a timed, supervised setting so you could see how the kids can actually write without paid essay coaches and AI.

The purpose of the essay isn't writing? I think people need to read up a bit on admissions. It is a place to demonstrate your voice, purpose, and goals. If it was just to see writing quality, they'd just require Ap English Lang and get this over with.

They can demonstrate voice and purpose in a neutral setting that’s proctored and timed.

The problem is that all the parents with no ethics will be getting their kids double time accommodations for their “special needs”. I think they need to do away with all of that - accommodations are fine during school when the goal is to actually educate the kid, but once you’re talking about life, college, and how kids perform in their careers, the idea of some people getting double time is completely unfair and frankly ridiculous. If they genuinely need all that extra time in order to get the same grades as everyone else then they need to go to a lower level college.