How much are you actually paying your advocates/attorneys and are they even worth it?

[Anonymous]

I think hiring an Advocate helped my marriage. It was good for DH to hear the advocate's opinions in these meetings, and see the written exchange between us. When the school employees are dishonest, manipulative and incompetent, and our children were not being well-served, having an expert involved on our side showed DH that the problem was the school (not his own spouse or kids). The kids and I are not professionals, after all! I think DH treats me with more respect than he used to, and a large part of that was the advocate checking and validating what I was saying and doing.

[Anonymous]

OP I think it's worth it to get the IEP, but beyond that I think it's a better use of money to hire outside professionals. I think Eig is the big name in sped law who has a good track record-expensive, but likely worth it. We knew one family that used him and were very pleased and we almost used his colleague (who works in VA). Very impressed with her. If he wants an evaluation or thinks it's better suited for an advocate go with who he recommends.

As mentioned, advocates are part of an unregulated field. Yes, you have teachers who do it, etc., but there is no advocate licensure, no training in advocacy ethics, no place to make a formal complaint. Several we spoke to were parents who raised kids with SN which is great, but not a qualification because there is so much variety in SN.

[Anonymous]

What do you want with the IEP?

If you feel strongly team-taught mainstream or self-contained are needed and in the case of team taught where there are kids without IEPs, school won't consider it, then sure get a lawyer.

If you want academic help in a 1 teacher mainstream classroom, or your child is any type of classroom and you want specific services like OT, ST,PT, save your money and hire private professionals. Even if you work full time there are some with weekend hours or who will come to your home during weekdays. Get on waitlists. Even if an advocate gets you those services, they are often in groups with kids with vastly different needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I think it's worth it to get the IEP, but beyond that I think it's a better use of money to hire outside professionals. I think Eig is the big name in sped law who has a good track record-expensive, but likely worth it. We knew one family that used him and were very pleased and we almost used his colleague (who works in VA). Very impressed with her. If he wants an evaluation or thinks it's better suited for an advocate go with who he recommends.

As mentioned, advocates are part of an unregulated field. Yes, you have teachers who do it, etc., but there is no advocate licensure, no training in advocacy ethics, no place to make a formal complaint. Several we spoke to were parents who raised kids with SN which is great, but not a qualification because there is so much variety in SN.

Be very, very careful with advocates. I routinely see things they have screwed up. I also see advocates provide inaccurate information regularly, either to clients and also often on social media. This is a legal area, so non attorneys just are not going to get it. It's so much better to work with a special education attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I think it's worth it to get the IEP, but beyond that I think it's a better use of money to hire outside professionals. I think Eig is the big name in sped law who has a good track record-expensive, but likely worth it. We knew one family that used him and were very pleased and we almost used his colleague (who works in VA). Very impressed with her. If he wants an evaluation or thinks it's better suited for an advocate go with who he recommends.

As mentioned, advocates are part of an unregulated field. Yes, you have teachers who do it, etc., but there is no advocate licensure, no training in advocacy ethics, no place to make a formal complaint. Several we spoke to were parents who raised kids with SN which is great, but not a qualification because there is so much variety in SN.

I see them the same way I see “life coaches” made up titles that anybody without any training whatsoever can say they are and charge ridiculous prices doing so. Advocates are worse in my opinion though because they take advantage of parents desperate to get help for their kids. The advocates know that and charge accordingly. It’s gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would start with an advocate to advocate for the IEP. Them get a lawyer for the placement issue down the line, since you aren't going to go from no IEP to restrictive placement in one step.

Nope, just go right to a special ed lawyer. Advocates are not a regulated field - waste of time and money.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think it's worth it to get the IEP, but beyond that I think it's a better use of money to hire outside professionals. I think Eig is the big name in sped law who has a good track record-expensive, but likely worth it. We knew one family that used him and were very pleased and we almost used his colleague (who works in VA). Very impressed with her. If he wants an evaluation or thinks it's better suited for an advocate go with who he recommends.

As mentioned, advocates are part of an unregulated field. Yes, you have teachers who do it, etc., but there is no advocate licensure, no training in advocacy ethics, no place to make a formal complaint. Several we spoke to were parents who raised kids with SN which is great, but not a qualification because there is so much variety in SN.

I see them the same way I see “life coaches” made up titles that anybody without any training whatsoever can say they are and charge ridiculous prices doing so. Advocates are worse in my opinion though because they take advantage of parents desperate to get help for their kids. The advocates know that and charge accordingly. It’s gross.

I actually think most of the advocates mean well and are trying to help parents, but they don't know what they don't know. This is a legal area and your child's rights are at stake. You want an attorney who knows the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think it's worth it to get the IEP, but beyond that I think it's a better use of money to hire outside professionals. I think Eig is the big name in sped law who has a good track record-expensive, but likely worth it. We knew one family that used him and were very pleased and we almost used his colleague (who works in VA). Very impressed with her. If he wants an evaluation or thinks it's better suited for an advocate go with who he recommends.

As mentioned, advocates are part of an unregulated field. Yes, you have teachers who do it, etc., but there is no advocate licensure, no training in advocacy ethics, no place to make a formal complaint. Several we spoke to were parents who raised kids with SN which is great, but not a qualification because there is so much variety in SN.

I see them the same way I see “life coaches” made up titles that anybody without any training whatsoever can say they are and charge ridiculous prices doing so. Advocates are worse in my opinion though because they take advantage of parents desperate to get help for their kids. The advocates know that and charge accordingly. It’s gross.

I actually think most of the advocates mean well and are trying to help parents, but they don't know what they don't know. This is a legal area and your child's rights are at stake. You want an attorney who knows the law.

I think most of the advocates are money hungry who charge special needs parents a premium because they know they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used Lisa Fagan who is an advocate who also advertises she is an attorney. Technically, if I recall correctly she is trained as maybe a tax attorney and got familiar with SN law to advocate for her own kids.

She was fine the first time and we were frustrated enough with one professional I didn't mind her being harsh. The second time she seemed to follow her own agenda and was rude to professionals we liked. She also prolonged the process more when we were already ready to agree, costing us more money.

I also didn't like how both times she would come back and tell me the PSL says that the teachers say X (gossip) about you. First off, I kept communications polite and professional and in writing and she saw that and she agreed we did nothing wrong. Really all the gossip part did was attempt to create drama and it made me see both her and the PSL as less professional. It's none of my business what they say about me behind my back, what matters is getting my kids needs met. Stick to the IEP and my child's needs.

This is a strange criticism. I would be upset if my attorney was told this and did not tell me. Sometimes attorneys have to be the bearer of bad news.

We had a good experience with Paula Rosenstock. She is an attorney trained in sped law, who is professional and interacts respectfully with everyone involved. She sticks to legal rights and getting the job done efficiently. She didn't try to manipulate us or play on our emotions at all.

[Anonymous]

We've gotten a lot of feedback on this thread but I'm still curious to know the hourly rates for advocates. Is there a difference in rates based on whether the non-attorney advocate has a background in education vs being a parent who has been through the process? You don't have to share the name if you don't want to but I want to know:
1. rate
2. background in education (former teacher)? parent? other?
3. school district

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've gotten a lot of feedback on this thread but I'm still curious to know the hourly rates for advocates. Is there a difference in rates based on whether the non-attorney advocate has a background in education vs being a parent who has been through the process? You don't have to share the name if you don't want to but I want to know:
1. rate
2. background in education (former teacher)? parent? other?
3. school district

I was charged $300 for someone who used to work at a private school, didn't know the law, gave us bad advice, and didn't know how to help us overcome resistance from the school. That was the same rate as the much much more effective and knowledgeable attorney who we later hired. I soooo wish we had just gone right to the attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've gotten a lot of feedback on this thread but I'm still curious to know the hourly rates for advocates. Is there a difference in rates based on whether the non-attorney advocate has a background in education vs being a parent who has been through the process? You don't have to share the name if you don't want to but I want to know:
1. rate
2. background in education (former teacher)? parent? other?
3. school district

I was charged $300 for someone who used to work at a private school, didn't know the law, gave us bad advice, and didn't know how to help us overcome resistance from the school. That was the same rate as the much much more effective and knowledgeable attorney who we later hired. I soooo wish we had just gone right to the attorney.

it’s insane these advocates charge $300/hr when they have no actual credentials. What’s more insane is they know parents are desperate enough to pay it and that’s how they get away with it. Even if someone ends up not using them they are making more than the majority of people make a day in one single hour. unbelievable. Attorneys charge that much because they actually are credentialed and expected to know the law and policies etc…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've gotten a lot of feedback on this thread but I'm still curious to know the hourly rates for advocates. Is there a difference in rates based on whether the non-attorney advocate has a background in education vs being a parent who has been through the process? You don't have to share the name if you don't want to but I want to know:
1. rate
2. background in education (former teacher)? parent? other?
3. school district

I was charged $300 for someone who used to work at a private school, didn't know the law, gave us bad advice, and didn't know how to help us overcome resistance from the school. That was the same rate as the much much more effective and knowledgeable attorney who we later hired. I soooo wish we had just gone right to the attorney.

it’s insane these advocates charge $300/hr when they have no actual credentials. What’s more insane is they know parents are desperate enough to pay it and that’s how they get away with it. Even if someone ends up not using them they are making more than the majority of people make a day in one single hour. unbelievable. Attorneys charge that much because they actually are credentialed and expected to know the law and policies etc…

Yes, that's what my attorney charged (years ago so it probably went up) and that seemed reasonable/low to me as an attorney myself who would bill much higher. I too thought it was insane once I realized a non credentialed "advocate" was charging the same exact rate!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've gotten a lot of feedback on this thread but I'm still curious to know the hourly rates for advocates. Is there a difference in rates based on whether the non-attorney advocate has a background in education vs being a parent who has been through the process? You don't have to share the name if you don't want to but I want to know:
1. rate
2. background in education (former teacher)? parent? other?
3. school district

I was charged $300 for someone who used to work at a private school, didn't know the law, gave us bad advice, and didn't know how to help us overcome resistance from the school. That was the same rate as the much much more effective and knowledgeable attorney who we later hired. I soooo wish we had just gone right to the attorney.

it’s insane these advocates charge $300/hr when they have no actual credentials. What’s more insane is they know parents are desperate enough to pay it and that’s how they get away with it. Even if someone ends up not using them they are making more than the majority of people make a day in one single hour. unbelievable. Attorneys charge that much because they actually are credentialed and expected to know the law and policies etc…

Yes, that's what my attorney charged (years ago so it probably went up) and that seemed reasonable/low to me as an attorney myself who would bill much higher. I too thought it was insane once I realized a non credentialed "advocate" was charging the same exact rate!

What do advocates do vs what attorneys do? I would think advocates with an educational background can help revise the IEP and attorneys can help enforce compliance with the IEP process. Is that how it is working for most? $300/hour is outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've gotten a lot of feedback on this thread but I'm still curious to know the hourly rates for advocates. Is there a difference in rates based on whether the non-attorney advocate has a background in education vs being a parent who has been through the process? You don't have to share the name if you don't want to but I want to know:
1. rate
2. background in education (former teacher)? parent? other?
3. school district

I was charged $300 for someone who used to work at a private school, didn't know the law, gave us bad advice, and didn't know how to help us overcome resistance from the school. That was the same rate as the much much more effective and knowledgeable attorney who we later hired. I soooo wish we had just gone right to the attorney.

it’s insane these advocates charge $300/hr when they have no actual credentials. What’s more insane is they know parents are desperate enough to pay it and that’s how they get away with it. Even if someone ends up not using them they are making more than the majority of people make a day in one single hour. unbelievable. Attorneys charge that much because they actually are credentialed and expected to know the law and policies etc…

Yes, that's what my attorney charged (years ago so it probably went up) and that seemed reasonable/low to me as an attorney myself who would bill much higher. I too thought it was insane once I realized a non credentialed "advocate" was charging the same exact rate!

What do advocates do vs what attorneys do? I would think advocates with an educational background can help revise the IEP and attorneys can help enforce compliance with the IEP process. Is that how it is working for most? $300/hour is outrageous.

Our first advocate as a bulldog, but got the job done. The first thing she wanted to do was observe the classroom where our child was struggling and the teacher was so bad and they knew this advocate was so fierce they basically switched our kid. So we waited a few weeks and had the advocate observe there and low and behold it was a good match. Suddenly they were giving out child all the services on the IEP too, so basically just hiring her got things moving. Her reputation preceded her so they knew not to mess with her. No meeting needed. The rest of the year went fine. She retired.

A few years later we hired another advocate. She was focused on how the IEP was written and getting more services. The extra services were fine the first year, but pretty lousy after that and we didn't want to keep having to have meetings and pay and advocate. It was stress, time off from work and draining. Same thing with how the IEP was written. Being detailed and focused on wording helped right after the meeting, but things fell apart by the next school year and once again we just didn't have the energy for it all. It was more worth it financially and mentally to simply get the services outside of school and have low expectations for school. It kept the peace with the team and way less stress on us.

One year we did hire a lawyer, but the issues were egregious and we wanted to get to the point. It was efficient and lasting, but not cheap. I don't recall the price of all this, but I know everything went way up in cost after the pandemic.