AI outperforming physicians. Ban humans from practicing certain medicine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

I’d rather have a robot for surgery. Been to too many dictors who should not be doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

Been to too many doctors who should not be doctors.

This is true. Universities seem to be nothing more than diploma mills these days, giving anyone with the money a degree, and everyone has the money now with government loans they hand out like candy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a link but a couple months ago they had an interview on NPR (A1 maybe?) on this issue. The result was that AI was better for routine issues but that human physicians were much better on detecting cases that fell outside the routine.

This is ALREADY one of my biggest frustrations with human physicians - they are trained to think "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras," and will make patients suffer catastrophic issues to prove it's not horses. So anything that reinforces that bias further could be dangerous.

I wonder if AI would have the same bias against a zebra diagnosis.

DP but yes they do.
They suffer from confirmation bias as well. They are still programmed by humans, and most all humans are flawed and egotistical.
I have noticed that certain questioning techniques tend to get them to become more questioning of the information they express and questioning their "sources", but even then they are programmed to be "loyal" to certain things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, radiology. Why isn't that a field that will get absolutely decimated by AI. They will just take images and have them interpreted by AI that can use image analysis and machine vision that is going to be less error probe and less biased than a radiologist. No need to pay an army of radiologists $500k salaries anymore when AI can do all of the work in 1/10th the time, with less errors, and for a fraction of the cost.

I would not sign up to have an ERCP performed by AI. You wouldn’t either.

People won't have a choice soon when insurance no longer covers physician fees when AI will cost $20 with less error...

I don’t think you know what an ERCP is. AI cannot even reliably drive cars. It definitely cannot do this radiological procedure in its present state.

And how fast did the smartphone evolve again?

Great point—not that fast. Mine has more computing power than involved in the moon landing and still cannot drive my car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

I’d rather have a robot for surgery. Been to too many doctors who should not be doctors.

Autonomous surgical robots aren't coming anytime soon. An Nvidia article from last year talks about robots that've been trained to autonomously lift a piece of human tissue, tie a surgical knot, and one other thing that I forget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

Been to too many doctors who should not be doctors.

This is true. Universities seem to be nothing more than diploma mills these days, giving anyone with the money a degree, and everyone has the money now with government loans they hand out like candy.

STFU comrade.

[Anonymous]

Keep telling yourselves AI won't replace doctors:

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.fawzikatranji/video/7504918683874053384

This is only the beta testing too. It's not even refined and polished yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

Been to too many doctors who should not be doctors.

This is true. Universities seem to be nothing more than diploma mills these days, giving anyone with the money a degree, and everyone has the money now with government loans they hand out like candy.

STFU comrade.

Where's the lie though? A college diploma most likely means you're nothing more than certified as being in debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Discussed here: https://erictopol.substack.com/p/when-doctors-with-ai-are-outperformed

The studies are small, and I think it's too early to say whether today's AI is better. But I would be surprised if there's not significant progress in the next few years.

The good scenario: Docs will learn to integrate AI into their practice, reducing busywork and improving diagnostic accuracy, leaving more time for patient interaction.

Bad scenario: They trust AI too much and become over reliant on it, not fixing its mistakes, and/or overrule AI even when it's right because they don't trust it enough.

Both of these things will happen. It will become harder to know who is a truly good or great doctor. At the same time, the quality of the average to below average doctor will increase in some ways and decrease in other ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many doctors have not learned or barely practice the art of hands on medicine. They rely on labs, which is something AI can do pretty well. But hands on is really needed in many contexts and often helps to avoid expensive tests.

AI can't really replicate hands on medicine; doctors need to do more of this.

What do I need hands in medicine for though for many types of issues?

Let's say I have some kind of unknown infection. I take images of the skin rash, input my symptoms into AI, along with my labs delivered electronically and AI comes up with the highest probable diagnosis and appropriate course of action/treatment. I don't really need a handson clinical, do I? AI can also keep training itself on the entire body of new research and literature available so that it can constantly update the best prescription for treatment regimens, optimal dosing for drugs, etc. while a human physician probably almost never reads any literature after med school.

Struggling here to see why we need any doctors for hands on work if AI now does it with less error rates than a human.

Human doctor here. Since I graduated from medical school, not a work day has gone by that I have not read or consulted something in the medical literature. I graduated in 2004. Doctors CONSTANTLY consult literature. And not at the level of your average layperson “doing their research.” You have to know how reliable sources are, how to interpret the data, understand trial design, and assess whether it’s applicable to your specific patient.

It is bone chilling to read these uninformed opinions suggesting that people stop reading after medical school. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

Been to too many doctors who should not be doctors.

This is true. Universities seem to be nothing more than diploma mills these days, giving anyone with the money a degree, and everyone has the money now with government loans they hand out like candy.

You evidently have no clue what is required to get admitted to or through medical school and residency. Just because you couldn’t do it doesn’t mean anyone can.

May you receive the medical care you deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

But this won't be used to decrease gatekeeping. It will be used to increase profits. Nobody cares about health.

+1. We can’t have nice things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

Been to too many doctors who should not be doctors.

This is true. Universities seem to be nothing more than diploma mills these days, giving anyone with the money a degree, and everyone has the money now with government loans they hand out like candy.

STFU comrade.

Where's the lie though? A college diploma most likely means you're nothing more than certified as being in debt.

I chuckled. So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we actually cared about health, the AI would be free to patients. Doctors could still be available for those who wanted a human, for hands-on issues (like surgery), and for consultation if/when the AI was inconclusive. But about 75% of the time I go to see a whitecoat, it's simply because I need someone with letters after their name to order the Rx I already know I need and can ask for by name. And the NP I typically see is often looking up the answers on google anyway.

Just let me connect to the data myself, thanks.

Been to too many doctors who should not be doctors.

This is true. Universities seem to be nothing more than diploma mills these days, giving anyone with the money a degree, and everyone has the money now with government loans they hand out like candy.

You evidently have no clue what is required to get admitted to or through medical school and residency. Just because you couldn’t do it doesn’t mean anyone can.

May you receive the medical care you deserve.

Did you even think about that before hitting enter?

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the comments but it would be interesting to compare how well women and POC are diagnosed by AI vs doctors. Or is AI trained to dismiss complaints of women and POC by the human inputs.