Why do so many private school kids go to St Andrews?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews, and McGill. These I don't get it.

Why not Oxybridge? Why not UBC?

Oxbridge and other UK schools have a vastly different system. You pick ONE subject and only study that one for three years.
St Andrews and McGill are much closer to the US approach

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are st Andrews and McGill on par?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews, McGill are for smart (not top) kids from privates who are full pay but get shut out of the top 25/50 for whatever reason - lame EC, too many peers also full play + legacy or ECs, not a recruited athlete. There are only so many spots at the top schools for each school, even though they claim it’s untrue.

The top kids now can’t get into ivies now, and top 20 is even dicey. Then these kids end up at the tufts, Emory’s, michigans which is where smart but not top kids would have gone. Now those kids who are smart but not top may not even get into the respectable schools like BC/BU anymore…. And they don’t want to go to Denison or Trinity or JMI after busting their butts for four years at privates. St Andrew and McGill are really great schools and studying abroad for four years is an appealing experience for some.

My kid chose St Andrews instead of Georgetown, Michigan and NYU.

Ours looks like he will do the same - not the exact same schools except one, but comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another plus is the peers. The UK peers you will have at St Andrews are on par with the top kids in the US. It is much harder for them to get in and most need A*A*A* just to be considered or a 42+/45 IB.

On par with more than that. If the future King of England attended, you know this is a school acceptable to the aristocracy. The idea that that would be appealing to (some, not all, before you come at me) private school kids is a no-brainer.

It’s not just William and Harry who went to StA. A lot of Europe’s royalty goes there.
It’s an excellent school. It’s inexpensive for people with dual citizenship (EU passports) too. Less hand holding than in the US, which I consider a plus. Students there tend to be more independent than in the US except maybe be the top 20 or so US universities that are full of driven, focused kids. No Greek life, which is also a plus imo.

It was less expensive. Then Brexit happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another plus is the peers. The UK peers you will have at St Andrews are on par with the top kids in the US. It is much harder for them to get in and most need A*A*A* just to be considered or a 42+/45 IB.

On par with more than that. If the future King of England attended, you know this is a school acceptable to the aristocracy. The idea that that would be appealing to (some, not all, before you come at me) private school kids is a no-brainer.

It’s not just William and Harry who went to StA. A lot of Europe’s royalty goes there.
It’s an excellent school. It’s inexpensive for people with dual citizenship (EU passports) too. Less hand holding than in the US, which I consider a plus. Students there tend to be more independent than in the US except maybe be the top 20 or so US universities that are full of driven, focused kids. No Greek life, which is also a plus imo.

It was less expensive. Then Brexit happened.

Dual citizens who live overseas pay international prices at UK schools. It's like state schools in the US -- residency, not citizenship, determines the tuition. Before Brexit, EU residents were eligible for the home price (UK, not Scottish) but no longer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews, and McGill. These I don't get it.

Why not Oxybridge? Why not UBC

Oxbridge and other UK schools have a vastly different system. You pick ONE subject and only study that one for three years.
St Andrews and McGill are much closer to the US approach

McGill yes, agree.

In practice not easy or automatic to get permission to change degrees at StA. Some do change their degree, with university permission, but not many. Some who request to change degree are denied by StA.

[Anonymous]

UBC, U Waterloo, and U Toronto (StGeorge campus) are other good options in Canada.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews, and McGill. These I don't get it.

Why not Oxybridge? Why not UBC

Oxbridge and other UK schools have a vastly different system. You pick ONE subject and only study that one for three years.
St Andrews and McGill are much closer to the US approach

McGill yes, agree.

In practice not easy or automatic to get permission to change degrees at StA. Some do change their degree, with university permission, but not many. Some who request to change degree are denied by StA.

Yes, good point. McGill is more flexible. StA is in the middle. UK is one subject only the whole time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:St Andrews, and McGill. These I don't get it.

Why not Oxybridge? Why not UBC

Oxbridge and other UK schools have a vastly different system. You pick ONE subject and only study that one for three years.
St Andrews and McGill are much closer to the US approach

McGill yes, agree.

In practice not easy or automatic to get permission to change degrees at StA. Some do change their degree, with university permission, but not many. Some who request to change degree are denied by StA.

Not true. 1/3 of kids starting at Sta change their degree within 2 years. It is VERY common and VERY easy if within one of the 4 colleges.
Both of my kids changed degrees.

My son went from Mgmt single Honours to IR and History Joint Honors. IT was very easy to change as he took all 3 modules first 2 years.
My daughter started as IR and changed to Financial Economics.
Half of their friends changed majors within 24 months.

[Anonymous]

Correct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another plus is the peers. The UK peers you will have at St Andrews are on par with the top kids in the US. It is much harder for them to get in and most need A*A*A* just to be considered or a 42+/45 IB.

Wouldn't Oxbridge peets be on par with the top kids in the US? I would consider StA peers to be T50 level. Also, the admission requirement minimums seem to be ABB, not 3 A*s. E.g. https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/subjects/management/management-ma/#entry-requirements

You are wrong. The minimum is a worthless metric. Sta has the highest Tariff entry for Scottish students. And the highest in the UK.
The avg entry grades of Oxford/cambridge and Sta kids are very very similar for English students. Minimums get you to apply. If you are applying to non-competitive program, sure. Same everywhere. Please go to student room forum. It is a UK forum with kid discussing their acceptances and rejections….many A*A*A*s rejected at Sta. That is top of the top.

I looked there for a bit but I couldn't find any with three A*a rejected.

Not going to babysit you….you can look through here starting with the Oxford kid rejected at Sta: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7519579&page=48

The required grades don’t mean much for UK students. Obviously you have to get these grades to get in but all of the top universities require similar. And simply getting the grades doesn’t mean you automatically get in either. It isn’t a useful metric to rank quality of the university. As has been exhaustively discussed in this forum, St Andrews is extremely popular in the US but it is not super popular in the UK (for lots of reasons including extra year of study, weather, location, etc) nor is it super prestigious compared to Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, etc. However, it is a sort of hack for Americans because it is considered prestigious here.

Sums it up well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another plus is the peers. The UK peers you will have at St Andrews are on par with the top kids in the US. It is much harder for them to get in and most need A*A*A* just to be considered or a 42+/45 IB.

Wouldn't Oxbridge peets be on par with the top kids in the US? I would consider StA peers to be T50 level. Also, the admission requirement minimums seem to be ABB, not 3 A*s. E.g. https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/subjects/management/management-ma/#entry-requirements

You are wrong. The minimum is a worthless metric. Sta has the highest Tariff entry for Scottish students. And the highest in the UK.
The avg entry grades of Oxford/cambridge and Sta kids are very very similar for English students. Minimums get you to apply. If you are applying to non-competitive program, sure. Same everywhere. Please go to student room forum. It is a UK forum with kid discussing their acceptances and rejections….many A*A*A*s rejected at Sta. That is top of the top.

I looked there for a bit but I couldn't find any with three A*a rejected.

Not going to babysit you….you can look through here starting with the Oxford kid rejected at Sta: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7519579&page=48

The required grades don’t mean much for UK students. Obviously you have to get these grades to get in but all of the top universities require similar. And simply getting the grades doesn’t mean you automatically get in either. It isn’t a useful metric to rank quality of the university. As has been exhaustively discussed in this forum, St Andrews is extremely popular in the US but it is not super popular in the UK (for lots of reasons including extra year of study, weather, location, etc) nor is it super prestigious compared to Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, etc. However, it is a sort of hack for Americans because it is considered prestigious here.

Sums it up well.

Wrong again. Nobody is ranking any uni based on grades. saying it isn’t popular in the UK is just not factual. There are more than 11,000 Applicants from RUK (Rest of UK, not counting Scotland) to St Andrews….That is a HUGE number. Another 5,000 applications from Scottish Students.

DATA from UCAS and St Andrews
Total # of Applications to St Andrews was 26k with 16k from the UK (8k total undergrads)
For comparison, Durham had 34k applicatinos last year (17k total undergrads). Cambridge had 21k (13k undergrads)., Imperial had 30k (11k undergrads), UCL and Edinburgh 70k with 25k students at each.

So please show me again where it not popular with UK students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another plus is the peers. The UK peers you will have at St Andrews are on par with the top kids in the US. It is much harder for them to get in and most need A*A*A* just to be considered or a 42+/45 IB.

Wouldn't Oxbridge peets be on par with the top kids in the US? I would consider StA peers to be T50 level. Also, the admission requirement minimums seem to be ABB, not 3 A*s. E.g. https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/subjects/management/management-ma/#entry-requirements

You are wrong. The minimum is a worthless metric. Sta has the highest Tariff entry for Scottish students. And the highest in the UK.
The avg entry grades of Oxford/cambridge and Sta kids are very very similar for English students. Minimums get you to apply. If you are applying to non-competitive program, sure. Same everywhere. Please go to student room forum. It is a UK forum with kid discussing their acceptances and rejections….many A*A*A*s rejected at Sta. That is top of the top.

I looked there for a bit but I couldn't find any with three A*a rejected.

Not going to babysit you….you can look through here starting with the Oxford kid rejected at Sta: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7519579&page=48

The required grades don’t mean much for UK students. Obviously you have to get these grades to get in but all of the top universities require similar. And simply getting the grades doesn’t mean you automatically get in either. It isn’t a useful metric to rank quality of the university. As has been exhaustively discussed in this forum, St Andrews is extremely popular in the US but it is not super popular in the UK (for lots of reasons including extra year of study, weather, location, etc) nor is it super prestigious compared to Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, etc. However, it is a sort of hack for Americans because it is considered prestigious here.

Sums it up well.

Wrong again. Nobody is ranking any uni based on grades. saying it isn’t popular in the UK is just not factual. There are more than 11,000 Applicants from RUK (Rest of UK, not counting Scotland) to St Andrews….That is a HUGE number. Another 5,000 applications from Scottish Students.

DATA from UCAS and St Andrews
Total # of Applications to St Andrews was 26k with 16k from the UK (8k total undergrads)
For comparison, Durham had 34k applicatinos last year (17k total undergrads). Cambridge had 21k (13k undergrads)., Imperial had 30k (11k undergrads), UCL and Edinburgh 70k with 25k students at each.

So please show me again where it not popular with UK students?

Facts are not going to sway those with outdated cultural biases. The old guard English will never accept that the Scots have an institution that rivals their own top universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another plus is the peers. The UK peers you will have at St Andrews are on par with the top kids in the US. It is much harder for them to get in and most need A*A*A* just to be considered or a 42+/45 IB.

Wouldn't Oxbridge peets be on par with the top kids in the US? I would consider StA peers to be T50 level. Also, the admission requirement minimums seem to be ABB, not 3 A*s. E.g. https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/subjects/management/management-ma/#entry-requirements

You are wrong. The minimum is a worthless metric. Sta has the highest Tariff entry for Scottish students. And the highest in the UK.
The avg entry grades of Oxford/cambridge and Sta kids are very very similar for English students. Minimums get you to apply. If you are applying to non-competitive program, sure. Same everywhere. Please go to student room forum. It is a UK forum with kid discussing their acceptances and rejections….many A*A*A*s rejected at Sta. That is top of the top.

I looked there for a bit but I couldn't find any with three A*a rejected.

Not going to babysit you….you can look through here starting with the Oxford kid rejected at Sta: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7519579&page=48

The required grades don’t mean much for UK students. Obviously you have to get these grades to get in but all of the top universities require similar. And simply getting the grades doesn’t mean you automatically get in either. It isn’t a useful metric to rank quality of the university. As has been exhaustively discussed in this forum, St Andrews is extremely popular in the US but it is not super popular in the UK (for lots of reasons including extra year of study, weather, location, etc) nor is it super prestigious compared to Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, etc. However, it is a sort of hack for Americans because it is considered prestigious here.

Sums it up well.

Wrong again. Nobody is ranking any uni based on grades. saying it isn’t popular in the UK is just not factual. There are more than 11,000 Applicants from RUK (Rest of UK, not counting Scotland) to St Andrews….That is a HUGE number. Another 5,000 applications from Scottish Students.

DATA from UCAS and St Andrews
Total # of Applications to St Andrews was 26k with 16k from the UK (8k total undergrads)
For comparison, Durham had 34k applicatinos last year (17k total undergrads). Cambridge had 21k (13k undergrads)., Imperial had 30k (11k undergrads), UCL and Edinburgh 70k with 25k students at each.

So please show me again where it not popular with UK students?

Facts are not going to sway those with outdated cultural biases. The old guard English will never accept that the Scots have an institution that rivals their own top universities.

Wrong…..one William graduated from St Andrews, it became ok for the “old guard”to send their kids. noted the number of other royals and EU royals who have attended and currently attend.

Don’t spread misinformation on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another plus is the peers. The UK peers you will have at St Andrews are on par with the top kids in the US. It is much harder for them to get in and most need A*A*A* just to be considered or a 42+/45 IB.

Wouldn't Oxbridge peets be on par with the top kids in the US? I would consider StA peers to be T50 level. Also, the admission requirement minimums seem to be ABB, not 3 A*s. E.g. https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/subjects/management/management-ma/#entry-requirements

You are wrong. The minimum is a worthless metric. Sta has the highest Tariff entry for Scottish students. And the highest in the UK.
The avg entry grades of Oxford/cambridge and Sta kids are very very similar for English students. Minimums get you to apply. If you are applying to non-competitive program, sure. Same everywhere. Please go to student room forum. It is a UK forum with kid discussing their acceptances and rejections….many A*A*A*s rejected at Sta. That is top of the top.

I looked there for a bit but I couldn't find any with three A*a rejected.

Not going to babysit you….you can look through here starting with the Oxford kid rejected at Sta: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7519579&page=48

The required grades don’t mean much for UK students. Obviously you have to get these grades to get in but all of the top universities require similar. And simply getting the grades doesn’t mean you automatically get in either. It isn’t a useful metric to rank quality of the university. As has been exhaustively discussed in this forum, St Andrews is extremely popular in the US but it is not super popular in the UK (for lots of reasons including extra year of study, weather, location, etc) nor is it super prestigious compared to Oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, etc. However, it is a sort of hack for Americans because it is considered prestigious here.

Sums it up well.

Wrong again. Nobody is ranking any uni based on grades. saying it isn’t popular in the UK is just not factual. There are more than 11,000 Applicants from RUK (Rest of UK, not counting Scotland) to St Andrews….That is a HUGE number. Another 5,000 applications from Scottish Students.

DATA from UCAS and St Andrews
Total # of Applications to St Andrews was 26k with 16k from the UK (8k total undergrads)
For comparison, Durham had 34k applicatinos last year (17k total undergrads). Cambridge had 21k (13k undergrads)., Imperial had 30k (11k undergrads), UCL and Edinburgh 70k with 25k students at each.

So please show me again where it not popular with UK students?

Are yield numbers available? What happens when students get offers from StA AND Cambridge? StA AND Oxford? StA AND LSE?

The Oxbridge application numbers are depressed because students are only allowed to apply to one of the two. St. A is a great school, and gets amazing students, esp. from Scotland. But I'd guess it is not the first choice of the most ambitious students outside of Scotland.