Do not overshoot for your ED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

The reason for people who need aid to ED at a top school is that the very best schools have great aid. Getting into Princeton is very hard, but, for broke people, paying for it is not that hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

So you were saying that if these same kids can't afford full pay they are screwed from the beginning because they couldn't do Ed anyway?

If you can't afford it ED, you can't afford it RD either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

Emory, Pomona, Williams, Cornell are all about the same. Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins are better examples.

Same what? Pomona has a lower overall acceptance rate than Northwestern and JHU. (A decade ago, its acceptance rate was also lower than Duke, but Duke has gotten a lot more popular recently.) Personally, I think Williams' acceptance rate is slightly higher only because of it's location leads to more self-selection of the academically qualified. And admission to Cornell's CS or Engineering programs is probably more selective than any program offered by any of the schools you mentioned.

Slightly wrong.

Pomona class of 2028: 6.6%

SAT range: 1480 and 1560

JHU: 6.2%

SAT Range: 1530 - 1570

NU: 7.5%

SAT range: 1490 to 1580

I'd say JHU and NU's CS and Biomed programs are way harder as well (comparable to CS at Cornell)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

Emory, Pomona, Williams, Cornell are all about the same. Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins are better examples.

Same what? Pomona has a lower overall acceptance rate than Northwestern and JHU. (A decade ago, its acceptance rate was also lower than Duke, but Duke has gotten a lot more popular recently.) Personally, I think Williams' acceptance rate is slightly higher only because of it's location leads to more self-selection of the academically qualified. And admission to Cornell's CS or Engineering programs is probably more selective than any program offered by any of the schools you mentioned.

Slightly wrong.

Pomona class of 2028: 6.6%

SAT range: 1480 and 1560

JHU: 6.2%

SAT Range: 1530 - 1570

NU: 7.5%

SAT range: 1490 to 1580

I'd say JHU and NU's CS and Biomed programs are way harder as well (comparable to CS at Cornell)

Northwestern, JHU, Pomona are same difficulty to get in. I think yield is also same. Interesting because JHU and Northwestern are T10 and much more famous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

Emory, Pomona, Williams, Cornell are all about the same. Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins are better examples.

Same what? Pomona has a lower overall acceptance rate than Northwestern and JHU. (A decade ago, its acceptance rate was also lower than Duke, but Duke has gotten a lot more popular recently.) Personally, I think Williams' acceptance rate is slightly higher only because of it's location leads to more self-selection of the academically qualified. And admission to Cornell's CS or Engineering programs is probably more selective than any program offered by any of the schools you mentioned.

Slightly wrong.

Pomona class of 2028: 6.6%

SAT range: 1480 and 1560

JHU: 6.2%

SAT Range: 1530 - 1570

NU: 7.5%

SAT range: 1490 to 1580

I'd say JHU and NU's CS and Biomed programs are way harder as well (comparable to CS at Cornell)

My unhooked kid got into Pomona, Hopkins and an Ivy RD last year. He did not have any incredible ECS, fairly standard. He did write some amazing essays and likely had great recs in addition to the gpa and test scores. He did not ED anywhere. In our circle, kids did much better in the RD rounds than early last year and there was a ton of WL movement as well.

So I’d say not “under shooting” is a concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

So you were saying that if these same kids can't afford full pay they are screwed from the beginning because they couldn't do Ed anyway?

If you can't afford it ED, you can't afford it RD either.

The issue is when you can afford it with aid, but might get a significantly better offer at a different school that might change the decision. Families have to decide if the ED school is the top choice and worth the cost regardless of other options, or if they’d want to be able to compare costs at multiple schools after more aid packages come in. Folks who are full pay or at least don’t need to compare aid packages to make an informed decision are at an advantage with ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

So you were saying that if these same kids can't afford full pay they are screwed from the beginning because they couldn't do Ed anyway?

If you can't afford it ED, you can't afford it RD either.

The issue is when you can afford it with aid, but might get a significantly better offer at a different school that might change the decision. Families have to decide if the ED school is the top choice and worth the cost regardless of other options, or if they’d want to be able to compare costs at multiple schools after more aid packages come in. Folks who are full pay or at least don’t need to compare aid packages to make an informed decision are at an advantage with ED.

Running the NPC allows you to make an informed decision no matter what your income level. If you run the NPC for multiple schools, that allows you to comparison shop before you even apply. The calculators will tell you what sort of aid package you are likely to get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

Emory, Pomona, Williams, Cornell are all about the same. Duke, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins are better examples.

Same what? Pomona has a lower overall acceptance rate than Northwestern and JHU. (A decade ago, its acceptance rate was also lower than Duke, but Duke has gotten a lot more popular recently.) Personally, I think Williams' acceptance rate is slightly higher only because of it's location leads to more self-selection of the academically qualified. And admission to Cornell's CS or Engineering programs is probably more selective than any program offered by any of the schools you mentioned.

Slightly wrong.

Pomona class of 2028: 6.6%

SAT range: 1480 and 1560

JHU: 6.2%

SAT Range: 1530 - 1570

NU: 7.5%

SAT range: 1490 to 1580

I'd say JHU and NU's CS and Biomed programs are way harder as well (comparable to CS at Cornell)

Meh, I used the 2027 data because that's what appeared in my google searches. Anyhow, for the past 10-15 years, Pomona has a had a lower acceptance rate, although JHU's went down a bit this year for whatever reason. If you want to look at the c/o 2028 that's fine though. I think we can all admit that this is all supremely pedantic. As someone above noted, all three schools are similarly difficult admissions-wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

So you were saying that if these same kids can't afford full pay they are screwed from the beginning because they couldn't do Ed anyway?

If you can't afford it ED, you can't afford it RD either.

The issue is when you can afford it with aid, but might get a significantly better offer at a different school that might change the decision. Families have to decide if the ED school is the top choice and worth the cost regardless of other options, or if they’d want to be able to compare costs at multiple schools after more aid packages come in. Folks who are full pay or at least don’t need to compare aid packages to make an informed decision are at an advantage with ED.

Running the NPC allows you to make an informed decision no matter what your income level. If you run the NPC for multiple schools, that allows you to comparison shop before you even apply. The calculators will tell you what sort of aid package you are likely to get.

Only for need based aid, not merit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen so many normal smart, top of class kids who could have been admitted at great schools like Emory, Pomona or even Cornell but overshot during ED/EA for schools like top Ivies and Williams and wasted their ED. They ended up getting rejected/waitlisted everywhere during RD for schools they should have ED'ed, waited for the WL to clear all the way til July and they never cleared.

So you were saying that if these same kids can't afford full pay they are screwed from the beginning because they couldn't do Ed anyway?

If you can't afford it ED, you can't afford it RD either.

The issue is when you can afford it with aid, but might get a significantly better offer at a different school that might change the decision. Families have to decide if the ED school is the top choice and worth the cost regardless of other options, or if they’d want to be able to compare costs at multiple schools after more aid packages come in. Folks who are full pay or at least don’t need to compare aid packages to make an informed decision are at an advantage with ED.

Running the NPC allows you to make an informed decision no matter what your income level. If you run the NPC for multiple schools, that allows you to comparison shop before you even apply. The calculators will tell you what sort of aid package you are likely to get.

Only for need based aid, not merit

I have run NPCs that cough up "merit" estimates (discounts).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ED is a manipulative tool colleges use to gain a more attractive yield at the expense of student insecurity.

I wish ED would go away. But they only justification for it from a student perspective is if it is their definitive 1st choice, bar none. If they don't know, wait and do RD. Don't force yourself toward a 3rd or 2nd choice because of fear. Go only for your #1 and if it doesn't work out, just default to RD like most people.

I disagree with your opinion that ED a manipulative tool. However, I 100 percent agree that a kid should only apply ED to a school if it’s the kid’s first choice, bar none. If successful, it relieves one of a lot of pressure and anxiety. Both my kids did this, as did I when I was a kid. In all of our situations it was a case of “if this school takes me, I’m going there,” so why not ED? This is the only reason why someone should ED.

[Anonymous]

ED improves odds. But you can also improve odds by doing many RD apps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ED improves odds. But you can also improve odds by doing many RD apps.

Not necessarily. You might think if you send 20 apps to colleges that have 5% admit rates, then statistically you should get one of them.

But if you are a sub-par candidate, every single one of them will reject you for the same reasons. You are multiplying by zero twenty times in a row and wasting your application fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ED improves odds. But you can also improve odds by doing many RD apps.

Not necessarily. You might think if you send 20 apps to colleges that have 5% admit rates, then statistically you should get one of them.

But if you are a sub-par candidate, every single one of them will reject you for the same reasons. You are multiplying by zero twenty times in a row and wasting your application fees.

More nuanced than that though, since certain colleges value certain things more than others.

So a borderline candidate with one extraordinarily strong area might fare better with 20 applications than with 10