Absenteeism-reduction measures at Dranesville ES feel like misplaced student pressure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see how if you are from a foreign country, and it costs a lot to travel overseas, you'd want to get your money's worth and go for like a month so that your kids can be immersed in the culture and language, and spend time with relatives they rarely get to see. That seems reasonable and like it would also be educational and contribute to social-emotional learning!

I grew up in multicultural neighborhoods. No one was pulling their kids from school to travel for a month to the motherland. Those trips were important to the families, but they emphasized education more so. Trips were taken every few years during the summer, regardless of weather or travel deals.

Multiple months in summer to take the extended trip

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher last week I got Covid from a student who was sent with a runny nose. I got a fever and was miserable and missed 2 days of school. Then my assistant got it- 3 days off with a fever. Yesterday the teacher next door to me got it and will miss at least 2 days.
So now of course we don’t have subs and a few short weeks into the school year, we are all exhausted and splitting classes.
So FCPS touting send kids to school with fever free symptoms is going to run their workforce into the ground and it is already running on fumes.

What did you do in 2019? I remember DD's 2nd grade teacher and the entire rest of the teaching team had something similar (although I think DD's teacher caught the original illness from her own kid, not the kids in class). I mean...it's not like these are new issues that only apply to Covid? A couple years ago I got the flu before my flu shot had taken effect. It was awful. But it's also life.

DP, people get sick all the time and miss working in school. Just make sure, going forward, that you’re not one of those posters that piles on the bandwagon when somebody’s complaining that a teacher missed several school days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our country needs to stop bending over backwards begging families to send their kids to free schools. If they are absent for no real reason (like most of my students), they should unenroll them. In order to return to school, parents need to actually come to school to talk to admin and teachers about the expectations. The vast majority of students at my school scoring below grade level on assessments year after year are chronically absent.

+100. Just make real consequences for this behavior that impact parents and the nonsense will stop.

There are not enough officials to follow up on truancy issues and there is a reluctance to take those parents to court because the cases that most people are worried about, the poor families and the minority communities that tend to be behind academically, are families were they cannot afford to have a parent go to jail or miss work to make sure a kid goes to school. The parents who could be affected by legal actions have the money to fight charges and are more likely the families that take long vacations. And the families that really want to take that month trip to the homeland in January know that they can disenroll their child and then re-enroll their child when they come back. The AP/IB classes that the kid was in will still have that spot if the parents disenroll them in December or January so there is no real risk.

This means any consequences for enforcing attendance problems will end up impacting lower income families and families of kids who are probably already behind. Not to mention cost a hefty amount to the tax payer to enforce. Realistically speaking, Counties and States moved away from legal penalties because it simply wasn't working. It might impact the middle class families pulling their kids to go to Disney and on a cruise but it is not going to impact the chronically absent or who trvel for long periods of time.

No, that's not why. It's because we have become progressive and requiring lower income families to follow rules is mean and we don't want to be mean. Being nice is nicer (even if it harms the children who are the ones who need to be in school for academic and non-academic learning).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can see how if you are from a foreign country, and it costs a lot to travel overseas, you'd want to get your money's worth and go for like a month so that your kids can be immersed in the culture and language, and spend time with relatives they rarely get to see. That seems reasonable and like it would also be educational and contribute to social-emotional learning!

That’s homeschooling, then, if your educational choices are more valuable than the teacher’s. You have no idea how much it slows down classes to continually have to bring different kids up to speed.

[Anonymous]

My neighbor at a Title 1 school said their ES is also pushing kids to attend school more also. They were told it is a factor in boosting their school score.

We do know many families who take their ES kids out on vacations in excess of 10 days per year, outside of Spring break as its more convenient for them and apparently, they are the type of families the effort is being aimed at, not the sick kids.

There is a culture of "its ok to take take kids out on family vacations at any time," and they are focusing in on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a way to get sick kids to come to school and infect everyone else.

This is what I'm thinking. Wrong message students and staff should be home if they have a fever or infection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor at a Title 1 school said their ES is also pushing kids to attend school more also. They were told it is a factor in boosting their school score.

We do know many families who take their ES kids out on vacations in excess of 10 days per year, outside of Spring break as its more convenient for them and apparently, they are the type of families the effort is being aimed at, not the sick kids.

There is a culture of "its ok to take take kids out on family vacations at any time," and they are focusing in on this issue.

Are you saying that the kids who go on vacation for a week are harmed? Is there data to back up a week in the Bahamas hurting a kid academically? I know there are studies showing that FARMS and ELL kids missing school perform poorly academically, but do those studies show the same thing for UMC kids with highly educated parents taking vacation?

[Anonymous]

PP and I’m going to mention that possibly in the interest of stabilizing attendance, students with active, visible live lice can stay in school. Yes, even if they are scratching and uncomfortable and even if the teacher notices. Lice is now considered a public health “nuisance.” Possibly a principal can override but this is the new health department-FCPS agreement.

Also same protocol dictates that a student can also stay in school even after vomiting. If it’s a one-time event and without a fever and or diarrhea, can stay in school. A kid can have a jacking dry cough all day long and if there’s no fever, they stay. Oh - red, itchy eyes are fine but if there’s mucus or goopy discharge- sent home.

Ticket home is report of diarrhea, fever over 100.4 longer than 20 minutes, or anything that requires a 911 call or delivery of an epi pen.

Students sent home w/ diarrhea/fever/vomiting are told to be asymptomatic and fever free for 24 hours without use of analgesics or something like Pepto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor at a Title 1 school said their ES is also pushing kids to attend school more also. They were told it is a factor in boosting their school score.

We do know many families who take their ES kids out on vacations in excess of 10 days per year, outside of Spring break as its more convenient for them and apparently, they are the type of families the effort is being aimed at, not the sick kids.

There is a culture of "its ok to take take kids out on family vacations at any time," and they are focusing in on this issue.

Are you saying that the kids who go on vacation for a week are harmed? Is there data to back up a week in the Bahamas hurting a kid academically? I know there are studies showing that FARMS and ELL kids missing school perform poorly academically, but do those studies show the same thing for UMC kids with highly educated parents taking vacation?

DP - there’s probably no data either way, but 1) regardless of your SES, it gets more difficult for a kid to miss a week in the higher grades. ES is maybe negligible, MS is difficult, HS they will definitely find themselves behind. 2) there are more than likely no studies on the affects of absenteeism by class/income, because sadly, the majority of kids in the US are low income. They also aren’t generally missing school to spend a week at Disney - it’s more days here and there because they missed the bus and no one could drive them, they had to help with child care, older kids didn’t feel like going, or they wanted to pick up a shift at a job. Stuff like that. Then they start to get behind and now they really don’t want to go because their grades are slipping and they don’t understand the material. It builds on itself. That’s the reality for the average student in the US, not a kid being out for a week with a bad case of pneumonia + all the other less serious illnesses and they end up missing 18 days, or a kid taking a week long Caribbean cruise in May.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor at a Title 1 school said their ES is also pushing kids to attend school more also. They were told it is a factor in boosting their school score.

We do know many families who take their ES kids out on vacations in excess of 10 days per year, outside of Spring break as its more convenient for them and apparently, they are the type of families the effort is being aimed at, not the sick kids.

There is a culture of "its ok to take take kids out on family vacations at any time," and they are focusing in on this issue.

Are you saying that the kids who go on vacation for a week are harmed? Is there data to back up a week in the Bahamas hurting a kid academically? I know there are studies showing that FARMS and ELL kids missing school perform poorly academically, but do those studies show the same thing for UMC kids with highly educated parents taking vacation?

It’s not the UMC families that are missing all the days at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see how if you are from a foreign country, and it costs a lot to travel overseas, you'd want to get your money's worth and go for like a month so that your kids can be immersed in the culture and language, and spend time with relatives they rarely get to see. That seems reasonable and like it would also be educational and contribute to social-emotional learning!

I grew up in multicultural neighborhoods. No one was pulling their kids from school to travel for a month to the motherland. Those trips were important to the families, but they emphasized education more so. Trips were taken every few years during the summer, regardless of weather or travel deals.

Multiple months in summer to take the extended trip

PP. Yep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the school nurse there (a health department employee) has been consulted on any of these measures. Doubtful.

FCPS has pretty clearly said attendance policies for illness are back to pre-pandemic. The fact that some people on DCUM cannot get used to that idea doesn't change it.

Precovid kids still aren’t supposed to come to school when sick, and some children are going to miss due to chronic illness or other issues. Here are all the current reasons your child should stay home: severe coughing, pink eye, diarrhea, vomiting, fever, rash/fever, strep.

Agree this is misplaced. My children have had low level gunk since the beginning of September and we haven’t missed a day, but we would if we had any of the above symptoms.

Disagree. Yes, kids get sick and should stay home and yes, kids are getting sick more and for longer after covid.

But the big problem is parents who have decided that school is optional and have passed that idea on to their kids. It's not a low SES idea either, it's across all SES. It's all over this forum, everywhere. And it harms kids to miss school.

There is data showing that it hurts struggling children, but is there data showing that it hurts high achievers? My kid is in middle school and we're fine with them sleeping in on occasion or leaving early. They do great in school, sit down with khan academy when they don't get a concept in math, read a ton

No, at least not at the secondary level.

That's what you're telling yourself...

Please cite the evidence that it harms high achieving children at the secondary level, then.

It is going to be something that is going to harm your school now that the VDOE has decided that it is a grading factor for a schools health, or how ever they are referring to it, and you can bet that schools are going to be paying more attention to it. I know parents at Dranesville whose kids were pulled at least 3 times in a year for family vacations, I saw the pictures on their FB page. You see people posting asking about how to log in to schoology while abroad and how many days kids can miss school in a row before they are dis-enrolled. I would bet that a solid percentage of the kids considered to have high absentee rates are kids whose parents decided to take January off and visit family or go to Disney multiple times in a year.

Do those trips hurt the kids? Probably not because the parents tend to make sure their kids complete what work they can. Do those trips end up creating extra work for Teachers, who are already overly tasked? Yes.

That’s a lot of words to admit there’s no evidence it’s harming high achievers at the secondary level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor at a Title 1 school said their ES is also pushing kids to attend school more also. They were told it is a factor in boosting their school score.

We do know many families who take their ES kids out on vacations in excess of 10 days per year, outside of Spring break as its more convenient for them and apparently, they are the type of families the effort is being aimed at, not the sick kids.

There is a culture of "its ok to take take kids out on family vacations at any time," and they are focusing in on this issue.

Are you saying that the kids who go on vacation for a week are harmed? Is there data to back up a week in the Bahamas hurting a kid academically? I know there are studies showing that FARMS and ELL kids missing school perform poorly academically, but do those studies show the same thing for UMC kids with highly educated parents taking vacation?

DP. There is a disruption to the classroom. Imagine having students throughout the year coming and going for extended periods. Now that teacher has to either cobble together a "work packet" that may or may not get done by student on vacation, spend instruction time or non-class time getting the student up to speed, and has to rework or slow down the lessons to accommodate the absences.

For every parent who thinks it's just their kid who'll be out for an extra week in March, there are half a dozen other families thinking the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the school nurse there (a health department employee) has been consulted on any of these measures. Doubtful.

FCPS has pretty clearly said attendance policies for illness are back to pre-pandemic. The fact that some people on DCUM cannot get used to that idea doesn't change it.

Precovid kids still aren’t supposed to come to school when sick, and some children are going to miss due to chronic illness or other issues. Here are all the current reasons your child should stay home: severe coughing, pink eye, diarrhea, vomiting, fever, rash/fever, strep.

Agree this is misplaced. My children have had low level gunk since the beginning of September and we haven’t missed a day, but we would if we had any of the above symptoms.

Disagree. Yes, kids get sick and should stay home and yes, kids are getting sick more and for longer after covid.

But the big problem is parents who have decided that school is optional and have passed that idea on to their kids. It's not a low SES idea either, it's across all SES. It's all over this forum, everywhere. And it harms kids to miss school.

There is data showing that it hurts struggling children, but is there data showing that it hurts high achievers? My kid is in middle school and we're fine with them sleeping in on occasion or leaving early. They do great in school, sit down with khan academy when they don't get a concept in math, read a ton

No, at least not at the secondary level.

That's what you're telling yourself...

Please cite the evidence that it harms high achieving children at the secondary level, then.

It is going to be something that is going to harm your school now that the VDOE has decided that it is a grading factor for a schools health, or how ever they are referring to it, and you can bet that schools are going to be paying more attention to it. I know parents at Dranesville whose kids were pulled at least 3 times in a year for family vacations, I saw the pictures on their FB page. You see people posting asking about how to log in to schoology while abroad and how many days kids can miss school in a row before they are dis-enrolled. I would bet that a solid percentage of the kids considered to have high absentee rates are kids whose parents decided to take January off and visit family or go to Disney multiple times in a year.

Do those trips hurt the kids? Probably not because the parents tend to make sure their kids complete what work they can. Do those trips end up creating extra work for Teachers, who are already overly tasked? Yes.

That’s a lot of words to admit there’s no evidence it’s harming high achievers at the secondary level.

Adding additional strain on teachers, which leads to more leaving the profession.

Does that finally have a first hand consequence for you to stop being entitled and self centered?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My neighbor at a Title 1 school said their ES is also pushing kids to attend school more also. They were told it is a factor in boosting their school score.

We do know many families who take their ES kids out on vacations in excess of 10 days per year, outside of Spring break as its more convenient for them and apparently, they are the type of families the effort is being aimed at, not the sick kids.

There is a culture of "its ok to take take kids out on family vacations at any time," and they are focusing in on this issue.

Are you saying that the kids who go on vacation for a week are harmed? Is there data to back up a week in the Bahamas hurting a kid academically? I know there are studies showing that FARMS and ELL kids missing school perform poorly academically, but do those studies show the same thing for UMC kids with highly educated parents taking vacation?

It’s not the UMC families that are missing all the days at school.

I know UMC and MC families who have received letters for high absenteeism because they pulled their kids for vacations due to cost, one of the kids was a 9th grader. They took 2 different cruises after breaks because it was less expensive and less crowded. There are plenty of MC and UMC families taking month long international trips to visit family. The excuse for taking all of January is because the temperatures are better then in the summer when it is too hot to do anything during the trip. I know plenty of families who make their way back to various Asian countries for Lunar New Year and stay for an extended trip because it is expensive to fly and it take so long to get there.

The difference is that most of the parents doing this are in a place to support their kids with school work and try and find ways to complete school work during the trip. You see people posting on this site asking for VPN info to access schoology on a pretty regular basis. Some will ask parents for class work, which causes the Teacher extra work if they agree to get things together for the family. So the kids might be completing work while they are out but there will be work that has to be made up when they come home.

The poor families with high absentee rates tend to have kids missing school because there isn't a parent available to get the child up and out to school, school isn't a priority, the child is needed to work, the child is needed to watch siblings, or the parents are not home to realize that the child is choosing to not go to school. The parents are normally not in a place to help the child with school work and the child falls farther and farther behind in school.