Is Communications a liberal arts major or a vocational major?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at the Common Data Sets for each University, for Bachelor's Degrees awarded.

For Michigan, in the 2022-23 data set, Communications was in the 200s, History in the 90s, and all Area/Ethnic Studies in the 60s.

I am a parent with a Michigan grad degree. My son is starting LSA this year.

I mentioned favoring dual majors but here I would propose a History Major with Communications Minor, especially if the student can write credibly about their specific interest in History and connect it to Michigan courses.

It's unlikely that top athletes will be interacting with your child's application. It makes sense to me that future NFL types would be interested in issues related to Communication. They are probably more interested in sports journalism, broadcast journalism. P.R., media virality, etc. Staying away from sports topics is probably sufficient.

Regarding other schools, just compare degrees awarded to the total size of the class.

How big should a major be to be big? Hard to say, depends on the size of the university. 200 or 300 grads a year is a good size department. 50 or fewer is small at a big school. The Ford Public Policy at Michigan is about 80 per year and that is a selective degree that accepts about 50% of internal applicants.

My husband was in a small but healthy liberal arts major at a big school. He knew almost all the other majors. It gives a big school a much smaller feel, if that is desired.

Look into the Michigan Honors College and Residential College options.

Best of luck!



DP:
This is soo helpful. Are the numbers in the CDS data the number of graduates that year or the number of kids who were accepted and matriculated w/that major that year?

And would you pick history because of the numbers? What if sociology or anthropology or economics were similar numbers?



PP above. I am an MBA who loves liberal arts subjects. I would choose History if I loved history and could effectively communicate my special area of interest. It is appealing that the grad numbers are half of the Communications numbers. That said, from what I read, there are people from this board whose kids have gotten in as LSA Undecided. The ultra-specialized "studies" degrees don't appeal to me personally because I never wanted to hyperfocus on a topic. And I do worry they could be career limiting for a generalist.

The CDS numbers are for Bachelor's grads. Numbers for matriculants would be a lot fuzzier since people change majors. In general, if there are capped or direct admit majors, you can find some kind of stats somehow. But maybe not cleanly from the CDS.

Regarding choice of other majors, that's so personal. I considered Psychology but ended up in Economics because I decided against pursuing an academic career and expected to go into business. History is a major that emphasizes context, taking the long view, and writing. All of those are a great counterbalance to more overt "vocational" skills. While I think anthropology and sociology are interesting topics, I feel they are slightly less practical majors. But that's my taste. I think few kids know what college level anthropology might be like, so I question if they know enough to write essays about their interest in it. The sociology majors I remember went into social work and human services careers. That is not my area, so can't comment on pros and cons. Economics is usually popular (it is the business/vocational major at schools that don't have a true major). It will be a more common choice, so probably will not help an app to stand out. At Michigan, the undergrad business major would be harder to get into (seats are limited and direct admit is ramping up this year).

At some point, the gamesmanship should end. I wouldn't recommend a kid write essays about a major they have no intent to pursue. It sounds like OP's kid has about 3-4 areas of interest. I view History as very writing-focused. And OP's kid has a "studies" interest to wrap in. Seems legit enough to apply as a History major or History/Communications (major or minor).

With enough AP credits, a dual major might well be possible and reduce the need to choose between.

Tangent: somehow I don't see going to Stanford for Communications, even though it's possible. I would recommend applying to schools that are better known for Journalism, etc.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I wasn't aware of communications being the athletes major.


From 2016, but there doesn't seem to be anything more recent "Bleacher Report recently reported on the most popular majors for Power 5 Conference Football Players. Those conferences include the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), Big Ten Conference (B1G), Big 12 Conference (Big 12), Pac-12 Conference (Pac-12), and Southeastern Conference (SEC). Communication was the most popular major reported for Power 5 Players, with 323 majors, followed by Sociology (294), Business (291), General Studies (289), and Arts & Sciences (195). Of the 65 universities in the Power 5 conference, 38 reported Communication as being among their top five majors. "

https://www.natcom.org/sites/default/files/publications/NCA_C-Brief_2016_October.pdf

I'd assume that athletes who had to pass higher admissions bars are less likely to major in communications


Communications is under Art and Science

DP. No where in the source is that communicated. Seems pretty clear Communications and "arts and sciences" are separate fields, otherwise the number of communications majors would contribute to Arts and Sciences.


What college did you go to?
Check your school and come back.
Anonymous
Depends on the path. Mass communications is more vocational. Technical communication is more academic.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:All the Chinese are now majoring in communications.


Yep. Part of the takeover.

Related to AI technology

Also buying all of our farm land



Is communication related to AI technology?


Technical communications is absolutely.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I wasn't aware of communications being the athletes major.


From 2016, but there doesn't seem to be anything more recent "Bleacher Report recently reported on the most popular majors for Power 5 Conference Football Players. Those conferences include the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), Big Ten Conference (B1G), Big 12 Conference (Big 12), Pac-12 Conference (Pac-12), and Southeastern Conference (SEC). Communication was the most popular major reported for Power 5 Players, with 323 majors, followed by Sociology (294), Business (291), General Studies (289), and Arts & Sciences (195). Of the 65 universities in the Power 5 conference, 38 reported Communication as being among their top five majors. "

https://www.natcom.org/sites/default/files/publications/NCA_C-Brief_2016_October.pdf

I'd assume that athletes who had to pass higher admissions bars are less likely to major in communications


Communications is under Art and Science

DP. No where in the source is that communicated. Seems pretty clear Communications and "arts and sciences" are separate fields, otherwise the number of communications majors would contribute to Arts and Sciences.


What college did you go to?
Check your school and come back.

I went to a liberal arts college. Communications wasn't a degree, because you just studied English or Media Studies if you were interested in that path...
For what it's worth, at both of DC's schools the communications department is in the College of Communications.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at the Common Data Sets for each University, for Bachelor's Degrees awarded.

For Michigan, in the 2022-23 data set, Communications was in the 200s, History in the 90s, and all Area/Ethnic Studies in the 60s.

I am a parent with a Michigan grad degree. My son is starting LSA this year.

I mentioned favoring dual majors but here I would propose a History Major with Communications Minor, especially if the student can write credibly about their specific interest in History and connect it to Michigan courses.

It's unlikely that top athletes will be interacting with your child's application. It makes sense to me that future NFL types would be interested in issues related to Communication. They are probably more interested in sports journalism, broadcast journalism. P.R., media virality, etc. Staying away from sports topics is probably sufficient.

Regarding other schools, just compare degrees awarded to the total size of the class.

How big should a major be to be big? Hard to say, depends on the size of the university. 200 or 300 grads a year is a good size department. 50 or fewer is small at a big school. The Ford Public Policy at Michigan is about 80 per year and that is a selective degree that accepts about 50% of internal applicants.

My husband was in a small but healthy liberal arts major at a big school. He knew almost all the other majors. It gives a big school a much smaller feel, if that is desired.

Look into the Michigan Honors College and Residential College options.

Best of luck!



DP:
This is soo helpful. Are the numbers in the CDS data the number of graduates that year or the number of kids who were accepted and matriculated w/that major that year?

And would you pick history because of the numbers? What if sociology or anthropology or economics were similar numbers?



PP above. I am an MBA who loves liberal arts subjects. I would choose History if I loved history and could effectively communicate my special area of interest. It is appealing that the grad numbers are half of the Communications numbers. That said, from what I read, there are people from this board whose kids have gotten in as LSA Undecided. The ultra-specialized "studies" degrees don't appeal to me personally because I never wanted to hyperfocus on a topic. And I do worry they could be career limiting for a generalist.

The CDS numbers are for Bachelor's grads. Numbers for matriculants would be a lot fuzzier since people change majors. In general, if there are capped or direct admit majors, you can find some kind of stats somehow. But maybe not cleanly from the CDS.

Regarding choice of other majors, that's so personal. I considered Psychology but ended up in Economics because I decided against pursuing an academic career and expected to go into business. History is a major that emphasizes context, taking the long view, and writing. All of those are a great counterbalance to more overt "vocational" skills. While I think anthropology and sociology are interesting topics, I feel they are slightly less practical majors. But that's my taste. I think few kids know what college level anthropology might be like, so I question if they know enough to write essays about their interest in it. The sociology majors I remember went into social work and human services careers. That is not my area, so can't comment on pros and cons. Economics is usually popular (it is the business/vocational major at schools that don't have a true major). It will be a more common choice, so probably will not help an app to stand out. At Michigan, the undergrad business major would be harder to get into (seats are limited and direct admit is ramping up this year).

At some point, the gamesmanship should end. I wouldn't recommend a kid write essays about a major they have no intent to pursue. It sounds like OP's kid has about 3-4 areas of interest. I view History as very writing-focused. And OP's kid has a "studies" interest to wrap in. Seems legit enough to apply as a History major or History/Communications (major or minor).

With enough AP credits, a dual major might well be possible and reduce the need to choose between.

Tangent: somehow I don't see going to Stanford for Communications, even though it's possible. I would recommend applying to schools that are better known for Journalism, etc.


I posted earlier.

If you have journalistic extracurriculars, is that not good enough “evidence” for a communications major at any of the schools mentioned (incl Stanford)? Doesn’t that make sense if combined with history or American studies as a major?

Also, isn’t sociology the study of society, and would touch on things such as race, identity, gender and sexuality, inequality, immigration, social class, & institutions.
Wouldn’t that be a good match with communications or interdisciplinary American studies?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at the Common Data Sets for each University, for Bachelor's Degrees awarded.

For Michigan, in the 2022-23 data set, Communications was in the 200s, History in the 90s, and all Area/Ethnic Studies in the 60s.

I am a parent with a Michigan grad degree. My son is starting LSA this year.

I mentioned favoring dual majors but here I would propose a History Major with Communications Minor, especially if the student can write credibly about their specific interest in History and connect it to Michigan courses.

It's unlikely that top athletes will be interacting with your child's application. It makes sense to me that future NFL types would be interested in issues related to Communication. They are probably more interested in sports journalism, broadcast journalism. P.R., media virality, etc. Staying away from sports topics is probably sufficient.

Regarding other schools, just compare degrees awarded to the total size of the class.

How big should a major be to be big? Hard to say, depends on the size of the university. 200 or 300 grads a year is a good size department. 50 or fewer is small at a big school. The Ford Public Policy at Michigan is about 80 per year and that is a selective degree that accepts about 50% of internal applicants.

My husband was in a small but healthy liberal arts major at a big school. He knew almost all the other majors. It gives a big school a much smaller feel, if that is desired.

Look into the Michigan Honors College and Residential College options.

Best of luck!



DP:
This is soo helpful. Are the numbers in the CDS data the number of graduates that year or the number of kids who were accepted and matriculated w/that major that year?

And would you pick history because of the numbers? What if sociology or anthropology or economics were similar numbers?



PP above. I am an MBA who loves liberal arts subjects. I would choose History if I loved history and could effectively communicate my special area of interest. It is appealing that the grad numbers are half of the Communications numbers. That said, from what I read, there are people from this board whose kids have gotten in as LSA Undecided. The ultra-specialized "studies" degrees don't appeal to me personally because I never wanted to hyperfocus on a topic. And I do worry they could be career limiting for a generalist.

The CDS numbers are for Bachelor's grads. Numbers for matriculants would be a lot fuzzier since people change majors. In general, if there are capped or direct admit majors, you can find some kind of stats somehow. But maybe not cleanly from the CDS.

Regarding choice of other majors, that's so personal. I considered Psychology but ended up in Economics because I decided against pursuing an academic career and expected to go into business. History is a major that emphasizes context, taking the long view, and writing. All of those are a great counterbalance to more overt "vocational" skills. While I think anthropology and sociology are interesting topics, I feel they are slightly less practical majors. But that's my taste. I think few kids know what college level anthropology might be like, so I question if they know enough to write essays about their interest in it. The sociology majors I remember went into social work and human services careers. That is not my area, so can't comment on pros and cons. Economics is usually popular (it is the business/vocational major at schools that don't have a true major). It will be a more common choice, so probably will not help an app to stand out. At Michigan, the undergrad business major would be harder to get into (seats are limited and direct admit is ramping up this year).

At some point, the gamesmanship should end. I wouldn't recommend a kid write essays about a major they have no intent to pursue. It sounds like OP's kid has about 3-4 areas of interest. I view History as very writing-focused. And OP's kid has a "studies" interest to wrap in. Seems legit enough to apply as a History major or History/Communications (major or minor).

With enough AP credits, a dual major might well be possible and reduce the need to choose between.

Tangent: somehow I don't see going to Stanford for Communications, even though it's possible. I would recommend applying to schools that are better known for Journalism, etc.


I posted earlier.

If you have journalistic extracurriculars, is that not good enough “evidence” for a communications major at any of the schools mentioned (incl Stanford)? Doesn’t that make sense if combined with history or American studies as a major?

Also, isn’t sociology the study of society, and would touch on things such as race, identity, gender and sexuality, inequality, immigration, social class, & institutions.
Wouldn’t that be a good match with communications or interdisciplinary American studies?


PP. I feel that Communications can be paired with many majors. The applicant should decide which of their interests to showcase. I do follow the logic shared above. Just make sure that the plan can be effectively and convincingly described.

Sociology/Communications sounds like a fit for non-profit/advocacy/political communications jobs. Maybe the applicant should make a list of potential dream jobs and work back from that.

I looked at Stanford's latest CDS. It has percentages instead of BA counts. With a class size of about 2,000, there were only 0.8% graduating in Communications and 2% in Ethnic/Gender Studies. Not sure how to evaluate this considering that there is also a large 15% categorized under "Interdisciplinary Studies". You'd have to know specifics about Stanford to know what classes those students are pursuing.

Anonymous
There's a few subfields.

Number of Bachelor's Degrees

Speech communication and rhetoric 31,737
Communication, general 10,236
Mass communication/media studies 9,120

I suspect the "mass communication/media studies" is more liberal arts while "speech communication and rhetoric" is more vocational and "general" can go either way.
Anonymous
This is so helpful.
What if kid lists Comm and English? Is one easier to get into than the other?

Think Stanford.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:This is so helpful.
What if kid lists Comm and English? Is one easier to get into than the other?

Think Stanford.


Same as above.
Anonymous
Is communications really an easier entry to T20 than other majors like English or history or sociology?
Anonymous
Digital marketing.

You can always work plus get rich if you feel like it.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's where they stick athletes and admits they made a mistake on who are incapable of the math required for a business or stem major or the writing and research required for a liberal arts major


Is that true for all schools?

My daughter is actually really interested in this…


A major is usually only 25% of college coursework. So it doesn't control/dominate the experience. When people feel concerned about a major, I always suggest dual majoring.

English major counts are declining. I see Communications, like Marketing, as a more commerce-oriented field, but I believe these topics are worthy of being college majors so I don't think they should be disdained.

I have no association between athletes and Communications. Only with Kinesiology, P.E. Education, and Sports Management majors. I learned about kinesiology from watching player bios during games. I associate Communications with women who might otherwise go into English or Marketing.

No need to double major, just take courses in other subjects and find the applied ones that'll lead to a job. Major in the fun, coursework in the things that'll get you the job


Would these Comm majors be over or under subscribed, compared to history, sociology, ethnic studies, American studies?


That would likely depend heavily on the school. Look for data on bachelor's degrees awarded. Not all schools would have every major you listed. National stats don't matter because local job markets vary.

I personally am in favor of having a practical-sounding major. That's why dualing or minoring is useful. You get more chances to talk about that factoid "What's your major" than chances to list or discuss individual classes.


If all these majors are in the same school, then it should be quite easy to double major. Agree on long term benefit.

But if there is a strategic advantage in declaring one major at the application phase, I wouldn’t want my kid to declare communications if all of those slots are taken by athletes?? Make sense?

Kid has demonstrated EC interest in media/communications (2 ECs and 1 internship), along with other activities highlighting sociology/history/hyphenated Americana (4 ECs and another internship) etc…

Thinking schools like:
Vanderbilt
Michigan
Stanford
USC

Is it advantageous at any of these types of schools to declare Comm as a major over sociology/Am Studies etc? How would you even tell?

Please help!


Not sure.
See College Raptor.
Stanford has 25 Comm & Media Studies grads and 25 History and 12 Sociology?

Assume this is graduates? If so, sociology is the way to go, right?

https://www.collegeraptor.com/colleges/majors/Stanford-University-CA--243744


It would appear sociology is undersubscribed
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's where they stick athletes and admits they made a mistake on who are incapable of the math required for a business or stem major or the writing and research required for a liberal arts major


Is that true for all schools?

My daughter is actually really interested in this…
I'm sure it's not true at UPenn, where the athletes who are stuck there *are* capable of the math required for a business major or the writing and research required for a liberal arts major
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's where they stick athletes and admits they made a mistake on who are incapable of the math required for a business or stem major or the writing and research required for a liberal arts major


Is that true for all schools?

My daughter is actually really interested in this…


A major is usually only 25% of college coursework. So it doesn't control/dominate the experience. When people feel concerned about a major, I always suggest dual majoring.

English major counts are declining. I see Communications, like Marketing, as a more commerce-oriented field, but I believe these topics are worthy of being college majors so I don't think they should be disdained.

I have no association between athletes and Communications. Only with Kinesiology, P.E. Education, and Sports Management majors. I learned about kinesiology from watching player bios during games. I associate Communications with women who might otherwise go into English or Marketing.

No need to double major, just take courses in other subjects and find the applied ones that'll lead to a job. Major in the fun, coursework in the things that'll get you the job


Would these Comm majors be over or under subscribed, compared to history, sociology, ethnic studies, American studies?


That would likely depend heavily on the school. Look for data on bachelor's degrees awarded. Not all schools would have every major you listed. National stats don't matter because local job markets vary.

I personally am in favor of having a practical-sounding major. That's why dualing or minoring is useful. You get more chances to talk about that factoid "What's your major" than chances to list or discuss individual classes.


If all these majors are in the same school, then it should be quite easy to double major. Agree on long term benefit.

But if there is a strategic advantage in declaring one major at the application phase, I wouldn’t want my kid to declare communications if all of those slots are taken by athletes?? Make sense?

Kid has demonstrated EC interest in media/communications (2 ECs and 1 internship), along with other activities highlighting sociology/history/hyphenated Americana (4 ECs and another internship) etc…

Thinking schools like:
Vanderbilt
Michigan
Stanford
USC

Is it advantageous at any of these types of schools to declare Comm as a major over sociology/Am Studies etc? How would you even tell?

Please help!


Not sure.
See College Raptor.
Stanford has 25 Comm & Media Studies grads and 25 History and 12 Sociology?

Assume this is graduates? If so, sociology is the way to go, right?

https://www.collegeraptor.com/colleges/majors/Stanford-University-CA--243744


It would appear sociology is undersubscribed


I think probably more undersubscribed than Comm
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