Two Rivers elementary families -- what is your MS plan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a brand-new Executive Director (Kristina) who was not up to the task at all, and who followed the founding Executive Director (the only ED the school had ever had) right when covid hit. Lots of compounding factors for sure, but to me they all start there. Had they managed to skip Kristina and go to the ED they have now, who seems very good, or had the founding ED been steering the ship during covid, things might be much different.

PP's mention of the impact of Cooper's opening timing is also 100% correct.

If you look at the pathways data from eduscape, the Latin Cooper excuse doesn't hold up. Only a small number of TR kids are getting in there even in the first two years when they were taking 5th and 6th grade students. Meanwhile the number of students going to Young has dropped by a huge number each year, and the number of places that 4th and 5th grade students are going to has multiplied. Not just Cooper but SH, EH, Deal, Hardy, CHML, Cap City, Truth, and others. The number of kids going to Cooper is small compared to the total number of kids leaving.

Also Cooper has not had that impact on other schools. In terms of enrollment and retaining feeder kids, SH and EH have improved even as Cooper opened. The popularity of ITDS MS has stayed high and it's actually led to less attrition from ITDS in the upper grades. TR was struggling before Cooper and continues to struggle now. The fact that a small handful of TR students went there is really pretty irrelevant to the problems at TR and especially at Young MS.

That's not what I was saying, though. Yes, TR is struggling before and after. But in the initial year of Cooper, when 5th and 6th grade classes were being filled from scratch with nobody having sibling preference, SY 22-23, was a different year in the system. Only one single school (Brent) sent 10 or more kids to Cooper. It's fascinating to me that no TR students went to Cooper for 5th that year, but it did have 6th graders from both campuses. I'm not sure how many. But losing a "small handful" of students really can be a big deal, if those students are mostly from TR's precious few high academic performers. And even if kids didn't go directly from TR to Cooper, 95 new 5th grade seats introduced a lot more flexibility in the system as a whole. In the Ward 5/6 area, it was easier for TR students to find a seat that they wanted at any number of schools. It's not just about direct transfers, it's about the system as a whole.

That year took a big bite out of ITDS middle school too. It doesn't really show in the data, but ITDS is such a small school that losing even 5 kids is a big deal. A lot of the grade-level and above-grade-level kids went over to Cooper and the impact is still being felt in that cohort and through sibling preference. ITDS middle is still doing okay, but that particular year was rough.

Right, one year with more attrition than usual but then it's fine and schools adjust. Except at TR. And think about why TR had so few "academically advanced" students to spare anyway. There is no reason for that to be the case except that TR's academics has been weak for years and strong students had already left the school (or failed to be one strong students in the first place because of weak curriculum and instruction).

Also one factor no one has mentioned is the degree to which virtual instruction during Covid revealed to a lot of parents how weak the school was academically. And while I agree Ms. Kristina handled Covid poorly, you can't blame this on her. She had been with the school a short time-- what parents saw was an unengaging, unchallenging curriculum delivered with little conviction by often inexperienced and checked out teachers. It was shocking.

Talk to a parent who supervised their kid's 1st, 2nd or 3rd grade year on zoom at TR and you'll see. Though you won't find many of them at TR be abuse most of us bailed pretty quickly after that.

This is the heart of TR's issues. Their PK programming is warm and supportive and it pulls you in, but once you get to the elementary grades, it's a mess. Expeditions is a joke. And that's not on Ms. Kristina or Latin Cooper. That's on the TR education model.

Well no it's not fine after that. The cohorts that lost a lot of kids to Latin still don't have those kids, and there's a follow-on sibling impact, and it is disproportionately losing the highest kids. The impact is not limited to one year. The difficulty at TR is due to so many different things adding up, some big and some small, but they all matter.

I agree with you about everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think given your propensity for long-term thinking, you're not going to be that happy at Two Rivers even though lower elementary is fine. You won't stop trying to solve your middle school problem if that's the kind of thinking you tend to do. How do I know? Because I'm like that too. Honestly, Two Rivers' middle school wasn't that great before it fell apart, it's just that people were reserving judgment because it was so new. Getting a school back on track is HARD and takes many years.

I think in your shoes, the thing to do is take a hard look at the middle schools in the area. Do you like ANY of them? If not, then you know you need to move. If you can identify a few that you'd be okay with, then you can stay and work on your path to those schools, and/or prepare to move house.

As to whether to choose Two Rivers for lower elementary, I suppose it depends on what you like and what your other options are.

OP here and thank you for the tough love-- this is what I needed to hear. I think I have been trying to talk myself into it because I know we're going to get an offer there, but you are right that I'm never going to be chill about the MS plan and it will stress me out. We have other schools on our list with MSs we're happy with, I just don't know if we'll get in there.

So really the issue is whether it's worth it to me to go to TR for a few years while we try to get our kid into a school with a better feed, or if I'd rather stay at our IB during that process. Either way we're not going to stay at TR past 1st or 2nd if we can help it.

I was in a similar position and ended up moving to Arlington (despite really, really not wanting to leave DC). I love it hear - the public schools are diverse and solid so i don't stress about it anymore, I drive less because my kids take the bus to school and I can still walk to a lot of places, there are more safe places for my kids (now tweens) to hang out alone. I realize a lot of people are locked into their homes now because of interest rates, but if you can move I highly recommend at least thinking about it. it is harder to move or switch schools as kids get older and it is definitely harder to become friends with other parents once your kids are old enough that you don't know their friends' parents.

[Anonymous]

I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

[Anonymous]

MV P St fell apart, behaviorally and administratively and academically, due to leadership. And due to the opening of a second campus, which overstretched the admin team caused the loss of the DCI guarantee. So it's kind of similar to Two Rivers. It seems like MV Calle Ocho is doing a lot better, which is an interesting wrinkle and not the same as Two Rivers' situation. But I can see how Hill families might give Two Rivers a try if Calle Ocho was too far.

CMI also took a downturn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

Huh, I wonder if that was part of the bump in EH 6th grade enrollment this year as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

Huh, I wonder if that was part of the bump in EH 6th grade enrollment this year as well.

That's interesting, how big a bump?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

Huh, I wonder if that was part of the bump in EH 6th grade enrollment this year as well.

That's interesting, how big a bump?

I may be getting this wrong but I feel like it was a whole extra 40 kids or so - a lot given the small size of the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

Huh, I wonder if that was part of the bump in EH 6th grade enrollment this year as well.

That's interesting, how big a bump?

I may be getting this wrong but I feel like it was a whole extra 40 kids or so - a lot given the small size of the school

Almost the whole 5th grade at Payne went to EH last year, which was more than had been in the past, so I think that contributed to it as well. They were at least 30 kids over their projected enrollment so they had to add a teacher and re-do schedules to add an extra specials/elective class as well. It is a tricky guessing game they have to do in the spring to predict enrollment/hire staff. Based on prior years enrollments they need to decide before the prior lottery how many spots to open up for OOB students, and then also take all IB students who enroll, which can change at any time.

[Anonymous]

Agree with most of the factors above. Another seemed to be that the emphasis on “community” and “warmth” slipped into a toxic positivity / gaslighting / head in the sand/ conflict averse approach to addressing problems. When teachers raised problems administrators didn’t make hard choices to confront the problems. The strong warm culture started to feel full of buzzwords, doublespeak, smiles and songs about community “we are the boat”, and reading the mission in unison at every gathering - literally - etc. Meanwhile educators were supported less and less and kid’s were not thriving/ learning much and deep parent engagement was rebuffed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with most of the factors above. Another seemed to be that the emphasis on “community” and “warmth” slipped into a toxic positivity / gaslighting / head in the sand/ conflict averse approach to addressing problems. When teachers raised problems administrators didn’t make hard choices to confront the problems. The strong warm culture started to feel full of buzzwords, doublespeak, smiles and songs about community “we are the boat”, and reading the mission in unison at every gathering - literally - etc. Meanwhile educators were supported less and less and kid’s were not thriving/ learning much and deep parent engagement was rebuffed.

Spot on. Former TR patent and the "toxic positivity" was awful-- it basically means you can't have a useful conversation with the administration or anyone on the FSA about anything because if you aren't all rah-rah-TR-is-amazing, people will just avoid you and not respond to emails. I think people are afraid to confront realities because it's easier to be avoidant and pretend everything is great.

I also just personally can't stand all that stuff like reading the mission statement together. It's cult-like. If you want to stay mission-driven then the focus should be on accountability. Make sure that major decisions or consistent with your core mission and be able to explain to people how that is the case. But just reciting stuff together out loud is not a form of accountability and actually feels like a manipulation tactic to get people not to ask questions or criticize. Again: cult-like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

Huh, I wonder if that was part of the bump in EH 6th grade enrollment this year as well.

That's interesting, how big a bump?

I may be getting this wrong but I feel like it was a whole extra 40 kids or so - a lot given the small size of the school

Almost the whole 5th grade at Payne went to EH last year, which was more than had been in the past, so I think that contributed to it as well. They were at least 30 kids over their projected enrollment so they had to add a teacher and re-do schedules to add an extra specials/elective class as well. It is a tricky guessing game they have to do in the spring to predict enrollment/hire staff. Based on prior years enrollments they need to decide before the prior lottery how many spots to open up for OOB students, and then also take all IB students who enroll, which can change at any time.

It was actually only about half of the Payne 5th grade class. 24 students from Payne out of a class of 46. 29 from Maury out of a class of 46. 27 from Miner out of a class of 43.

It was a bigger 6th grade class though. 150 in SY23-24 vs 112 in SY22-23.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

Huh, I wonder if that was part of the bump in EH 6th grade enrollment this year as well.

That's interesting, how big a bump?

I may be getting this wrong but I feel like it was a whole extra 40 kids or so - a lot given the small size of the school

Almost the whole 5th grade at Payne went to EH last year, which was more than had been in the past, so I think that contributed to it as well. They were at least 30 kids over their projected enrollment so they had to add a teacher and re-do schedules to add an extra specials/elective class as well. It is a tricky guessing game they have to do in the spring to predict enrollment/hire staff. Based on prior years enrollments they need to decide before the prior lottery how many spots to open up for OOB students, and then also take all IB students who enroll, which can change at any time.

It was actually only about half of the Payne 5th grade class. 24 students from Payne out of a class of 46. 29 from Maury out of a class of 46. 27 from Miner out of a class of 43.

It was a bigger 6th grade class though. 150 in SY23-24 vs 112 in SY22-23.

True, although Payne also has a BES and DHOH self contained class that probably counts towards enrollment, but may matriculate elsewhere. Also, I knew a few kids who initially enrolled elsewhere but then transferred to EH in the fall. I assume they were counted as enrolled at the first/prior school?
I know this is not the point of this thread, but I wonder where/how it is tracked when kids unenroll and re-enroll somewhere else mid year.

Anyway , I have a few friends who have stuck with TR and said they have had some good teachers into middle school, so hopefully things can stabilize a bit over there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think L-T got virtually every IB 2nd grader & up back from TR post-pandemic. There was a massive influx. Maybe 2-4 in every year from K up over a 1.5 year period? We also got a ton of kids from MV suddenly. Knowing nothing about any of those 4 schools, I assumed something was going on just looking at the sudden shift in enrollment trends.

Huh, I wonder if that was part of the bump in EH 6th grade enrollment this year as well.

That's interesting, how big a bump?

I may be getting this wrong but I feel like it was a whole extra 40 kids or so - a lot given the small size of the school

Almost the whole 5th grade at Payne went to EH last year, which was more than had been in the past, so I think that contributed to it as well. They were at least 30 kids over their projected enrollment so they had to add a teacher and re-do schedules to add an extra specials/elective class as well. It is a tricky guessing game they have to do in the spring to predict enrollment/hire staff. Based on prior years enrollments they need to decide before the prior lottery how many spots to open up for OOB students, and then also take all IB students who enroll, which can change at any time.

It was actually only about half of the Payne 5th grade class. 24 students from Payne out of a class of 46. 29 from Maury out of a class of 46. 27 from Miner out of a class of 43.

It was a bigger 6th grade class though. 150 in SY23-24 vs 112 in SY22-23.

True, although Payne also has a BES and DHOH self contained class that probably counts towards enrollment, but may matriculate elsewhere. Also, I knew a few kids who initially enrolled elsewhere but then transferred to EH in the fall. I assume they were counted as enrolled at the first/prior school?
I know this is not the point of this thread, but I wonder where/how it is tracked when kids unenroll and re-enroll somewhere else mid year.

Anyway , I have a few friends who have stuck with TR and said they have had some good teachers into middle school, so hopefully things can stabilize a bit over there!

All data based on audited enrollment student counts that happen in late September/early October

[Anonymous]

As a parent of a kid who was at TR for years before and then the tail end of the pandemic I can assure you that none of the things people are blaming on Covid or Kristina or community meetings were newly discovered in the past few years. TR certainly offers a warm and nurturing ECE environment. The problem is and has always been that the school has no clue how to adjust for middle to upper ES and the changes in kids that accompany chronological age. I have no idea how EL is supposed to work, but certainly it can't be the way TR deploys it. They have always had a tail wagging the dog approach to core subjects. Instead of having a curriculum based on verb conjugation or core math principles they start with whatever the EL concept is and back into the core learning. It results in suboptimal educational outcomes and kids who are not prepared to study or learn. Kristina was incompetent and wielded race as a sword and shield to prevent the board or anyone else from asking hard questions. She was an EL consultant with little to no experience running anything. In many ways she was the poster child for what is wrong with TR; the Board focused on EL fluency and their principles of inclusion instead of core administration of an educational institution and learning. Covid merely exposed how unprepared and unserious she and the TR Board were.

When JO Wilson reopens in 2026 it will be the death knell for TR 4th street. I assume it will be shuttered by 2029 at the latest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with most of the factors above. Another seemed to be that the emphasis on “community” and “warmth” slipped into a toxic positivity / gaslighting / head in the sand/ conflict averse approach to addressing problems. When teachers raised problems administrators didn’t make hard choices to confront the problems. The strong warm culture started to feel full of buzzwords, doublespeak, smiles and songs about community “we are the boat”, and reading the mission in unison at every gathering - literally - etc. Meanwhile educators were supported less and less and kid’s were not thriving/ learning much and deep parent engagement was rebuffed.

Spot on. Former TR patent and the "toxic positivity" was awful-- it basically means you can't have a useful conversation with the administration or anyone on the FSA about anything because if you aren't all rah-rah-TR-is-amazing, people will just avoid you and not respond to emails. I think people are afraid to confront realities because it's easier to be avoidant and pretend everything is great.

I also just personally can't stand all that stuff like reading the mission statement together. It's cult-like. If you want to stay mission-driven then the focus should be on accountability. Make sure that major decisions or consistent with your core mission and be able to explain to people how that is the case. But just reciting stuff together out loud is not a form of accountability and actually feels like a manipulation tactic to get people not to ask questions or criticize. Again: cult-like.

All of this is spot on. I’ll just add that I found the parent community at TRY overall very bizarre and cult-like, particularly around the COVID closures. There were glaring issues that no one seemed concerned with—the former TRY ES principal basically didn’t bother to show up the second half of the year. The year after we left, both 5th grade teachers quit mid-year and there was NO substitute/no full time replacements hired for the remainder of the year. Someone else mentioned the MS issues—additional days off to deal with “behavior issues”.
Again: cult-like (or ignorant).