Tech Prodigy and College Choices: Balancing Advanced Skills with Less Prestigious Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you might be interested in this story
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stanley-zhong-google-software-engineer/

My kids experience was similar and I can assure you that Ivy League schools are most certainly not looking for kids gifted in programming or technology for their CS programs.

Stanley Zhong had a 3.96 unweighted GPA, though. OP's kid is getting some Cs. That's a big difference.

The other big difference is that he attended Gunn High school which is one of the most competitive in the country. I read an estimate that his GPA put him only in the top 9% of students which meant around 40 other students had higher GPA's at his school taking the most rigorous classes. So trying to get in as a CS major when so many other students are ranked higher at your high school is going to be tough.

The other huge difference is Stanley's father, Nan Zhong, is a Software Engineering Manager at Google. Previously he co-founded two startups, created the #1 ranked communication app on Android (featured by Fortune and Amazing Android Apps for Dummies), and raised $10M in venture funding. Before that, he led the team that built AWS's Elastic Load Balancing service. So not surprising he got hired at Google.

OP kid is taking regular classes. If he is at a rigorous private school then the B's and C's might make sense but if he is at a public school where most have massive grade inflation getting C's looks really bad. In life and any job you have to be willing to get through the tedious boring stuff to be able to concentrate on what interests you. It doesn't matter if you have the skill if you aren't willing to do what it takes. Prestigious schools are for students who have the skill AND the drive AND the ability to do what it takes to be successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you might be interested in this story
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stanley-zhong-google-software-engineer/

My kids experience was similar and I can assure you that Ivy League schools are most certainly not looking for kids gifted in programming or technology for their CS programs.

Stanley Zhong had a 3.96 unweighted GPA, though. OP's kid is getting some Cs. That's a big difference.

The other big difference is that he attended Gunn High school which is one of the most competitive in the country. I read an estimate that his GPA put him only in the top 9% of students which meant around 40 other students had higher GPA's at his school taking the most rigorous classes. So trying to get in as a CS major when so many other students are ranked higher at your high school is going to be tough.

The other huge difference is Stanley's father, Nan Zhong, is a Software Engineering Manager at Google. Previously he co-founded two startups, created the #1 ranked communication app on Android (featured by Fortune and Amazing Android Apps for Dummies), and raised $10M in venture funding. Before that, he led the team that built AWS's Elastic Load Balancing service. So not surprising he got hired at Google.

OP kid is taking regular classes. If he is at a rigorous private school then the B's and C's might make sense but if he is at a public school where most have massive grade inflation getting C's looks really bad. In life and any job you have to be willing to get through the tedious boring stuff to be able to concentrate on what interests you. It doesn't matter if you have the skill if you aren't willing to do what it takes. Prestigious schools are for students who have the skill AND the drive AND the ability to do what it takes to be successful.

For ivies, Cs look really bad even coming from a rigorous high school

[Anonymous]

One has to wonder if Mark Zuckerberg would have been accepted to Harvard these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking for some advice about my 15-year-old son. Up until 8th grade, he excelled in advanced courses, always getting top grades. But something changed in high school – he stopped taking all honors and advanced classes and switched to regular ones. Despite this shift, he's still acing standardized tests, scoring around 1550 on SAT practice tests with ease. His regular school grades are a mix, with As, Bs, and occasional Cs, particularly in subjects like foreign languages that don't interest him.

He's now looking at colleges that are easier to get into, focusing on those with good Computer Science programs. His list includes Iowa State, George Mason University, Arizona State, University of Arizona, and Oregon State. He doesn't care about the school and just wants to get a CS degree.

Here’s where it gets impressive: his tech skills are extraordinary. Beyond basic coding, he’s adept at creating complex software solutions. He’s skilled in a wide array of programming languages and technologies, including Docker, JavaScript frameworks, Python, Java, C++, and more. He has an amazing ability to grasp and master new tech concepts, languages, and frameworks quickly. In my role as a senior director and hiring manager at a FAANG company, I see that his skills are comparable to those of our seasoned principal engineers and architects. He’s tackled challenging coding tasks and aced the tough coding tests we set for hiring these high-level positions.

Here's the part that irks me a bit: I talk to friends who have older kids and are just starting to learn programming at Ivy League schools, and it's hard not to feel that my son, who is far more advanced in tech, won't have the same prestigious college on his resume. This makes me wonder how important is a prestigious university for him. He’s incredibly talented in tech but isn’t pursuing challenging academic courses anymore. Should I push him towards more renowned universities, or is it okay to support his choice of more accessible colleges, given his exceptional skills? Will his advanced abilities in tech get recognized in the industry, even if he doesn’t graduate from a highly sought-after school?

If you are a hiring manager at a FAANG company, then you know there are kids getting hired without college degrees. It sounds like your kid may not actually enjoy college all that much, regardless of the name.

Very possible that college in general is just not for him. In any event, if your kid doesn't care about brand names, then pick a college with minimal required classes and in an area of the country that is dynamic in what interests him. Iowa State seems like a really odd choice unless Ames has some secret start-up community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One has to wonder if Mark Zuckerberg would have been accepted to Harvard these days.

I think a kid with a 1600 SAT from Philips Exeter still has a pretty good shot at Harvard acceptance these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:High school and college admissions tend to reward good generalists, and also kids who are highly motivated to hit externally-established goals. Doesn’t sound like that’s your kid. That’s cool, though. Life has a way of rewarding those who are self-motivated, and who specialize and have the ability to go deep.

It’s a different thing, parenting kids who just aren’t extrinsically motivated. Be honest (with yourself first, and then with him) about your concerns, your hopes, and your fears. Know he’s on a different journey. He just is. Tune out the chatter of the parents of the kids who are on a more standard path. They don’t know what they don’t know.

Trust him, and his skills. And keep the conversation going. You sound like a great, astute parent. Trust that, too.

This, your kid sounds really talented but not in a way that will appeal to tippy top schools without stellar academics which he is unlikely to have (and let’s be honest, in today’s world, that means not only no Cs, but also not many, if any, Bs). But that’s ok because his tech skill set will make him successful in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking for some advice about my 15-year-old son. Up until 8th grade, he excelled in advanced courses, always getting top grades. But something changed in high school – he stopped taking all honors and advanced classes and switched to regular ones. Despite this shift, he's still acing standardized tests, scoring around 1550 on SAT practice tests with ease. His regular school grades are a mix, with As, Bs, and occasional Cs, particularly in subjects like foreign languages that don't interest him.

He's now looking at colleges that are easier to get into, focusing on those with good Computer Science programs. His list includes Iowa State, George Mason University, Arizona State, University of Arizona, and Oregon State. He doesn't care about the school and just wants to get a CS degree.

Here’s where it gets impressive: his tech skills are extraordinary. Beyond basic coding, he’s adept at creating complex software solutions. He’s skilled in a wide array of programming languages and technologies, including Docker, JavaScript frameworks, Python, Java, C++, and more. He has an amazing ability to grasp and master new tech concepts, languages, and frameworks quickly. In my role as a senior director and hiring manager at a FAANG company, I see that his skills are comparable to those of our seasoned principal engineers and architects. He’s tackled challenging coding tasks and aced the tough coding tests we set for hiring these high-level positions.

Here's the part that irks me a bit: I talk to friends who have older kids and are just starting to learn programming at Ivy League schools, and it's hard not to feel that my son, who is far more advanced in tech, won't have the same prestigious college on his resume. This makes me wonder how important is a prestigious university for him. He’s incredibly talented in tech but isn’t pursuing challenging academic courses anymore. Should I push him towards more renowned universities, or is it okay to support his choice of more accessible colleges, given his exceptional skills? Will his advanced abilities in tech get recognized in the industry, even if he doesn’t graduate from a highly sought-after school?

My ivy kid says many SWE people he works with in silicon valley have a bootcamp certificate. The catch here is their background is often in engineering.

As a hiring manager in silicon valley, OP has a better picture of what's going on. No reason to be irked by his or her kid not having an ivy resume. My ivy kid said all his hiring managers were non-ivy grads. Nearly all the people he works for are non-ivy grads.

While this might be true in the past, right now the competition is very high and like any other profession if companies have a choice to make they will go for ivy from CS.

Well, that would be foolish since those are not nearly the best places to gain a CS education. And they don't get to be great companies by making foolish choices. If they are looking for an Ivy decoration, they will put it in the C suite or in business development under finance.

[Anonymous]

Without rigor and Cs, your kid is eliminating the possibility of selective schools. Look at these threads and see the stats of kids being rejected. I would make a no Cs rule because it’s not asking too much to pull a B or B minus with low rigor. I have an ADHD kid so I know where you are coming from, but all kids need to be held to reasonable standards. Also, I’m not sure why you think your kid would be successful/happy at a selective university based on their current high school experience? You need to find a school that fits the kid you have. Finally, I recommend you lean into their strength. Can your kid compete nationally in coding contests or get accepted to an elite summer program - not the “pay to play” like Brown , ect offers - but something meaningful that Admissions recognizes as a true accomplishment. Also, I assume you can get your kid an internship at your firm or through your connections? I have no doubt your kid will be successful and wish you luck finding the right fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He has put together a list of solid state schools that he can get into with his grades. Some are in nice locations with walkable towns, which you might focus on. This kid will need balance in his life.

I say just get out of his way. His resume will trump most any from an Ivy. He probably doesn't need to go to college. Be grateful that he has come up with a list and wants to go. And he may still get Cs in history class in college and that's okay too.

Or he can focus on building his github profile and picking up projects as a free lance developer. Pair an impressive presence github and experience with even a crappy CS degree, and he'll get hired anywhere

This is solid advice. There is a lot out there for techno geeks who have zero interest in people management or doing anything besides tech. And there is a SERIOUS dearth of programmers with actual ability as opposed to kids that go for CS because they know it's an easy way to get a well paying job. OP's kid will be fine. May not get into Google/Microsoft from the word go, but once he has that first job, no one will care where his degree is from, if he is as OP described.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One has to wonder if Mark Zuckerberg would have been accepted to Harvard these days.

I think a kid with a 1600 SAT from Philips Exeter still has a pretty good shot at Harvard acceptance these days.

Yep, try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[
And there is a SERIOUS dearth of programmers with actual ability as opposed to kids that go for CS because they know it's an easy way to get a well paying job. OP's kid will be fine. May not get into Google/Microsoft from the word go, but once he has that first job, no one will care where his degree is from, if he is as OP described.

This.

Lots of CS majors who can do web stuff with scripting languages. Those are not the best paying jobs, because too much supply not enough jobs.

Coders who can do real-time embedded software in C for a POSIX API are always in shortage, and those jobs pay much better because of the shortage.

[Anonymous]

The coming oversupply in CS is of people with "AI" backgrounds. I have seen at least 3 AI boom/bust cycles so far in my lifetime. There are SOOOO many CS ugrads trying to concentrate in AI right now. There will not be enough AI work for all of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're a hiring manager at a FAANG company. Can't you just hire your kid if he's that good, regardless of what school he comes out of?

OP here, FAANG companies are weird there are a lot of rules about nepotism and equity when hiring people.

What's weird about not allowing nepotism? IMO, that's a good thing. Rules out bringing in unqualified people just because of family connections.

-former FAANG employee with a CS kid

Yeah, but OP must know people in the industry she can connect her son with at other companies. Between that, his skills and a degree from a perfectly respectable school like Arizona or GMU he should be fine.

[Anonymous]

OP you sound insufferable. Leave the kid alone!

[Anonymous]

OP - I would suggest looking for an open curriculum college that has CS. There are no or minimal distribution requirements at these schools. Brown is actually one of them. But students that are pointy can take the classes that interest them.

Also, if he does not already have it, I would consider getting your student an EF coach. I have an ADHD kid and the EF coach has helped tremendously.