Does foreign language choice in HS matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely should matter. Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, and Korean, are substantially more challenging to native English speakers than languages like Spanish, French, etc.

That said, it probably isn’t taken into consideration much, if at all.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely should matter. Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, and Korean, are substantially more challenging to native English speakers than languages like Spanish, French, etc.

That said, it probably isn’t taken into consideration much, if at all.

Asian, middle east languages would certainly stand out. This coming from a parent of kids that took 4 and 3 years of Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

Good point, and someone earlier referenced the link with certain professional career paths, as well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Anytime we need Mandarin, we are going to use a native speaker who speaks English, not some white American who stumbled through four years of high school Mandarin.

It’s about pursuit of a rigorous program, and frankly, a student choosing Spanish or French (assuming Chinese is also available) could be viewed as taking the easiest way out for those four years of FL coursework.

If I was looking at otherwise identical students and one completed four years of Mandarin Chinese as their FL and the other completed four years of Spanish - I mean, if you understand the fact that the former is far more complex to master, you would have to tip the scale to that side, if think.

And then as to your last point, I guess it depends on how far a student pursues native fluency. I know of students who completed a Mandarin Chinese immersion program in the K-5 period, then returned for HS (with, as another poster pointed out, a class full of classmates surrounding them who use the language daily at home, as their primary family language) and some of them are very, very, very capable of reaching effective native fluency at 17 years old, with no indication in accent or otherwise.

Whether any of these languages is relevant at all depends on the intended major. I'm really doubtful that unless you actually intend to major in foreign languages, that a college will care a lot which language you took. The committee is going to regard four years of any language as "rigorous" for the purpose of assessing your curriculum's rigor.

You may very well be right for many schools, but I can tell you from very recent firsthand knowledge (as a parent accompanying an athletic recruit minor through the pre-read process) that at least one T20 school (and really, a T3 school) completely 180'd on the previously active recruitment process b/c the highest level of STEM courses available through his school (Calculus B/C and III, Linear Algebra, Physics C) were not on his transcript at the end of 11th grade. It didn't matter that 1/2 of those courses are on his plate for his senior year, or most importantly ... that he has a very specific non-STEM academic plan that's evident in his ECs and that obviously doesn't involve CS, engineering, or math). It didn't matter. Rigor, rigor, rigor.

This might be an anomaly, but it was literally our experience three months ago.

Your assumption that this transfers to language choice is wrong. Sorry, they don’t care if you took Spanish or French or Chinese or whatever.

Again, what do you base that statement on?

Otherwise, as reader, I'm only left to conclude that you are a panicky parent trying to convince yourself it doesn't matter.

And what do you base your statement that they do care what language they took on?

If you're the PP with the kid who didn't get recruited, that doesn't support your case at all. You didn't even mention foreign language at all in your single kid sample size anecdote.

You refuse to answer the question of how you know they DON'T take FL choice into consideration, but instead ask me to defend a statement I never made?

Nobody in this thread, including me, has made a statement that the AOs or admissions process DO take the FL selection into consideration. The furthest I've gone is in asserting that they should, based on the unifying theme of academic rigor.

Now that we're past those pleasantries, how about you share with everyone how you know they DON'T (since you HAVE asserted that they don't care)?

DP: I've been to a ton of college admissions events over the years for my 3 kids, youngest visiting schools now. I have NEVER heard a school say they rank languages based on their rigor and parents do ask such things. Many want to see 4+ years of the same language in high school. People don't choose their languages based on how hard they are--they choose them based on what is available/strong at their school and what they think will be useful to them. Also, even if a language has a higher difficulty rating for English speakers, it doesn't tell you how difficult the class was at their particular school--they just might not progress as quickly through the language as they do with an easier one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

What do you get with Latin that you don't get with French?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

What do you get with Latin that you don't get with French?

Latin roots and stems. And an amazing grounding in grammar. My kid scored 36/36 in the first sitting of ACT reading and English with no prep (and a 26 in science— so this is not a “she’s perfect” thing).

Me: Wow. One of your English teachers did an amazing job (also thinking: and did no one teach you to read a chart or graph?)
Her: that’s not English class. That’s all Latin.
Me: Even the Reading Comp
Her: Especially the Reading Comp

I guess translating the Odyssey taught her something important?

Also, after taking AP Latin, she skipped a year of HS French. And she swears that Latin is saving her in learning a non-Romance language in college because “underneath it all, the declinations are declinations” (I have no idea what this sentence even means. I got out of HS Spanish as soon as possible and never looked back). She swears Latin was the most useful class she took in HS. IR/foreign language major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

What do you get with Latin that you don't get with French?

Latin roots and stems. And an amazing grounding in grammar. My kid scored 36/36 in the first sitting of ACT reading and English with no prep (and a 26 in science— so this is not a “she’s perfect” thing).

Me: Wow. One of your English teachers did an amazing job (also thinking: and did no one teach you to read a chart or graph?)
Her: that’s not English class. That’s all Latin.
Me: Even the Reading Comp
Her: Especially the Reading Comp

I guess translating the Odyssey taught her something important?

Also, after taking AP Latin, she skipped a year of HS French. And she swears that Latin is saving her in learning a non-Romance language in college because “underneath it all, the declinations are declinations” (I have no idea what this sentence even means. I got out of HS Spanish as soon as possible and never looked back). She swears Latin was the most useful class she took in HS. IR/foreign language major.

Thank you for sharing.

Love reading direct, insightful, firsthand experience here.

[Anonymous]

DC will have taken 6 years of Japanese by graduation by their own choice. It's a hard language but been great to take something outside of the norm (Spanish/French). I don't think this will get them *in* to any particular school but could make their overall applications stand out depending on other apps that admissions person read in the moment both in language and length of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

What do you get with Latin that you don't get with French?

The grammar and structure it teaches transfers easily to the other Romance languages and even helps understanding it in English/German. It is a fantastic base and makes other European language acquisition easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC will have taken 6 years of Japanese by graduation by their own choice. It's a hard language but been great to take something outside of the norm (Spanish/French). I don't think this will get them *in* to any particular school but could make their overall applications stand out depending on other apps that admissions person read in the moment both in language and length of time.

My DS chose Japanese & Latin, quite the combo. Maybe it made a smidgen of 'hey this is different' during review. Who knows. He did it for fun and interest.

Either way I wish your DC much success should they decide to keep pursuing the language.

Note: https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/ap-score-distributions-by-subject-2022.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

What do you get with Latin that you don't get with French?

The grammar and structure it teaches transfers easily to the other Romance languages and even helps understanding it in English/German. It is a fantastic base and makes other European language acquisition easier.

+1. My kid says it is also enormously helpful in learning/ understanding Russian grammar. I dint take either language and couldn’t explain why, but she’s convinced.

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering about the idea that Chinese or Hindi are more useful professionally than other languages.

I agree that they are widely spoken, and in countries with rapid development, but they're also in countries where English is widely taught. How often do people who have learned Chinese or Hindi in high school or college find themselves in a situation where their Chinese or Hindi is better than the other person's English, and thus the language of the interaction?

In contrast, I know so many people who speak Spanish and use it regularly at work.

Just pondering since I have a kid who could pick either for high school.

[Anonymous]

How does german compare?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. But if one had to rank.. Latin would be at the top

Mandarin Chinese is not only more difficult for a native English speaker to master, but pragmatically it’s not even a fair fight. Latin will come in handy when you’re planning to storm the Vatican or if you ever gain access to a time machine … for literally everything else, bet on Mandarin Chinese.

Latin is actually impactful for medics and lawyers. But you couldn't possibly have known that.

AI is shitting over both of those career tracks as I reply. But please, regale us further re: the value of Latin over Mandarin Chinese in the 21st century.

Not disagreeing that Mandarin Chinese is a great option for kids to learn.

But I will say that the most useful class I took in high school was Latin. Learning how to structure thinking and how form and function are deeply connected was arguably more important to me when i was working on my physics PhD dissertation experiments than the math/physics I took in high school.

What do you get with Latin that you don't get with French?

The grammar and structure it teaches transfers easily to the other Romance languages and even helps understanding it in English/German. It is a fantastic base and makes other European language acquisition easier.

French grammar and structure are the same as Latin's. And it offers a closer/better jumpstart on learning other Romance languages. (I'll give you that Latin roots and stems are more useful for supporting English and German vocabulary acquisition.)