UMD Cuts Computer Science Class by 50%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thumbs up to Maryland's Information Science program. My son had an internship there when he was a CS major at UMCP, and when he went out into the job market, he earned a lot of positive feedback and second looks (and hiring opportunities) due to the info sci background.

CS degree also requires some info science classes. It's probably the internship that garnered the second look, not necessarily internship at UMDCP's IS program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CS majors and classes are enot important for the high paying jobs the unwashed masses are clamoring for. It's not a big deal. programming is the easiest skill to learn for free on the Internet.

CS is more than programming. You sound ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS majors and classes are enot important for the high paying jobs the unwashed masses are clamoring for. It's not a big deal. programming is the easiest skill to learn for free on the Internet.

CS is more than programming. You sound ignorant.

EVERY thread pertaining to CS...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it, don’t we need more CS majors, not fewer? Why would a state not be trying to graduate as many competent cs majors as possible? I get not admitting people who can’t hack it, but shouldn’t anyone with the grades and test scores who wants to try be given a chance? This seems incredibly short-sighted for the economy of the state.

They don’t have the professors. None of the schools do. There was just a big article about Pomona basically cutting its CS major because it can’t staff the department in California. Not enough people got CS degrees decades ago and I think most universities want phds which aren’t that common for CS folks. I think the immigration debacle of the last few years is also playing into this, but not sure—-from what people tell me, the CS majors from other countries aren’t that great as far as the higher skillsets.

They don't need PHD CS to teach the entry level courses. A BS/MS and industry experience would be just fine. However, if you can make $200-300K working in industry easily, why would you want to be paid $80K to teach. So until universities are willing to pay more for CS teachers, they won't find enough.

I'm chair of a department (R1 public), and most CS professors in T1 schools are hired in the six-figure range. However, you are correct that it is difficult to compete with industry jobs that pay $200-300k when we are offering $150k. Many times this leads to a failed search and possible loss of a tenure line. People with MS degrees can be hired as non-tenure track faculty, but again, it's not easy convincing someone to take the job at $85K. And the university is not going to significantly increase the department budget to pay the market rate. Also, it's not fair to students to over-enroll classes just to meet demand--there is a tipping point in which the class size is too large and the drop/withdrawal/fail rate increases significantly.

Thanks for your insight. That is exactly what I thought was happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's one way to prop up unpopular majors. You can be a math or physics major and take enough CS classes to be indistinguishable from a CS major

where are you getting this stuff from?

My kid is a dual math/CS major. A math degree + a handful of CS classes <> CS major.

DC laid out all the classes that they need to take for both degrees. There are a lot of CS classes for the CS major, and only like 3 math classes.

It is definitely "distinguishable".

The real issue is most computer science majors can’t handle the math needed for math degrees.

PP here.. I bet the reverse is true, too.. many math majors wouldn't be able to handle some of the CS classes. These majors aren't interchangeable.

And my freshman at UMD is considering double majoring in the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UMD recently changed the CS LEP rules for class entering in 2024. Only 600 slots and virtually no transfers in. "Find another major!" When we were at the open house in the spring they said 9,000 applicants indicated CS. 3,000 of those were admitted. 600 of those were admitted to CS. 450 enrolled. But at that time it wasn't that hard to transfer in. Anyway, crazy numbers for the state flagship. Take everything into account and the admit rate for CS this year will likely be 10-15%. Until this year the total class was 450 direct admits + 1,000 internal/external transfer= 1,450. Now it'll be 600 direct admits + 100 internal/external transfers= 700. If your kid's heart is set on in-state flagship CS, without plausible major substitutions, this could force you to go out of state or private even if you clear the increasingly tough hurdle of getting into UMD. UMBC is the #2 MD state engineering school, but involves a lot of tradeoffs.

From the UMD CS webpage:
First Year Applicants | Undergraduate Computer Science at UMD

Fall 2024 Computer Science LEP FAQ | Undergraduate Computer Science at UMD

The Computer Science major is a limited enrollment program (LEP), and we receive thousands of applications each year. For the Fall 2024 admissions cycle, we expect to have spots for about 600 first year students. As such, direct admission to the Computer Science major as a first-year student is very competitive.

If you are accepted to the university but not to Computer Science, you MUST be prepared to pursue an alternative major.

While we plan to increase the number of freshmen directly admitted to the Computer Science major by 150 slots (from 450 to 600 enrolled freshmen), the number of slots for new external transfers and internal transfers coming from a different UMD major will be reduced to 100 per year (down from 1,000).

I take umbrage only at your comment about the obligations of state flagships. Those vary tremendously from state to state and one cannot assume that a state can provide the education that say, California, Texas, Michigan, Virginia, can. Those states/commonwealths decided very early on to establish public education at a time when property was cheap and they could. Other states prioritized other issues. You cannot condemn all state schools because your kid cannot get into UMDCP. Many of these institutions were established 200 years ago and for a variety of geographical issues cannot expand further. Many flagships are negligible; you wouldn't want to apply. We are fortunate in the DC area to have UMDCP and UVA and the private in DC. Virginians have a wealth of large and small (W&M) institutions to apply to. It is what it is. Much of that was established 200 years ago. And BTW UVA and W&M can't grow larger geographically because, like Harvard and other slacs, they were established early and the towns have grown aorund them. They cannot expand further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS majors and classes are enot important for the high paying jobs the unwashed masses are clamoring for. It's not a big deal. programming is the easiest skill to learn for free on the Internet.

CS is not just programming.

Lower level programming has been off shored for many years. That's not where the money's at.

The big money in the future is going to be AI and ML.

What is ML?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS majors and classes are enot important for the high paying jobs the unwashed masses are clamoring for. It's not a big deal. programming is the easiest skill to learn for free on the Internet.

CS is not just programming.

Lower level programming has been off shored for many years. That's not where the money's at.

The big money in the future is going to be AI and ML.

What is ML?

Machine learning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:U can still take the core CS classes ..just not graduate as a CS major. Employers care about which classes you took and do you know your stuff

If you want to be a CS major, it is better to go somewhere you can actually major in what you want. Go to UMBC if you need in-state, or find a private college that offers good merit where you can major in CS (no direct admit).

+1 this might up UMBC's desirability, which is a good thing.

Employer perspective:
I would happily hire a new grad with a BSCS from UMBC, especially for cybersecurity work. Rankings are mostly meaningless to me. I probably would prefer MIT or UIUC CMU for a BSCS/MSCS major, over others. However, the difference between VT, GMU, UMD CP, UVa, UNC, NC state, Duke, and UMBC is largely ignorable on the job.

I care a whole lot which specialization a student chose in their upper level CS electives. I don’t happen to need AI/ML, but I do need strong systems background, strong assembly, and thorough understanding of security and networking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they explain why they are doing this?

CS is popular and the CS department isn't big enough. They could expand to meet demand, but there are tenured humanities professors who need students

Because all these kids aiming for CS are going to migrate over to Art History and Classics? Right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:U can still take the core CS classes ..just not graduate as a CS major. Employers care about which classes you took and do you know your stuff

If you want to be a CS major, it is better to go somewhere you can actually major in what you want. Go to UMBC if you need in-state, or find a private college that offers good merit where you can major in CS (no direct admit).

+1 this might up UMBC's desirability, which is a good thing.

Employer perspective:
I would happily hire a new grad with a BSCS from UMBC, especially for cybersecurity work. Rankings are mostly meaningless to me. I probably would prefer MIT or UIUC CMU for a BSCS/MSCS major, over others. However, the difference between VT, GMU, UMD CP, UVa, UNC, NC state, Duke, and UMBC is largely ignorable on the job.

I care a whole lot which specialization a student chose in their upper level CS electives. I don’t happen to need AI/ML, but I do need strong systems background, strong assembly, and thorough understanding of security and networking.

Duke CS grad vs UMBC
sure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:U can still take the core CS classes ..just not graduate as a CS major. Employers care about which classes you took and do you know your stuff

If you want to be a CS major, it is better to go somewhere you can actually major in what you want. Go to UMBC if you need in-state, or find a private college that offers good merit where you can major in CS (no direct admit).

+1 this might up UMBC's desirability, which is a good thing.

Employer perspective:
I would happily hire a new grad with a BSCS from UMBC, especially for cybersecurity work. Rankings are mostly meaningless to me. I probably would prefer MIT or UIUC CMU for a BSCS/MSCS major, over others. However, the difference between VT, GMU, UMD CP, UVa, UNC, NC state, Duke, and UMBC is largely ignorable on the job.

I care a whole lot which specialization a student chose in their upper level CS electives. I don’t happen to need AI/ML, but I do need strong systems background, strong assembly, and thorough understanding of security and networking.

I don't know about you, but in general, employers prefer Duke over UIUC by data

Duke: $159,845
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?198419-Duke-University&fos_code=1107&fos_credential=3

UIUC: $143,775
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?145637-University-of-Illinois-Urbana-Champaign&fos_code=1107&fos_credential=3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:U can still take the core CS classes ..just not graduate as a CS major. Employers care about which classes you took and do you know your stuff

If you want to be a CS major, it is better to go somewhere you can actually major in what you want. Go to UMBC if you need in-state, or find a private college that offers good merit where you can major in CS (no direct admit).

+1 this might up UMBC's desirability, which is a good thing.

Employer perspective:
I would happily hire a new grad with a BSCS from UMBC, especially for cybersecurity work. Rankings are mostly meaningless to me. I probably would prefer MIT or UIUC CMU for a BSCS/MSCS major, over others. However, the difference between VT, GMU, UMD CP, UVa, UNC, NC state, Duke, and UMBC is largely ignorable on the job.

I care a whole lot which specialization a student chose in their upper level CS electives. I don’t happen to need AI/ML, but I do need strong systems background, strong assembly, and thorough understanding of security and networking.

I don't know about you, but in general, employers prefer Duke over UIUC by data

Duke: $159,845
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?198419-Duke-University&fos_code=1107&fos_credential=3

UIUC: $143,775
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?145637-University-of-Illinois-Urbana-Champaign&fos_code=1107&fos_credential=3

UMBC: $95052
Still impressive but Duke grads make 50% more.
Obviously in a different tier.

[Anonymous]

So choose a different school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's one way to prop up unpopular majors. You can be a math or physics major and take enough CS classes to be indistinguishable from a CS major

where are you getting this stuff from?

My kid is a dual math/CS major. A math degree + a handful of CS classes <> CS major.

DC laid out all the classes that they need to take for both degrees. There are a lot of CS classes for the CS major, and only like 3 math classes.

It is definitely "distinguishable".

The real issue is most computer science majors can’t handle the math needed for math degrees.

PP here.. I bet the reverse is true, too.. many math majors wouldn't be able to handle some of the CS classes. These majors aren't interchangeable.

And my freshman at UMD is considering double majoring in the two.

PP here.. mine is actually double majoring in math and CS. That doesn't mean that most majors would do fine as a CS major. Not sure why you are "shocked".