No feedback on writing in elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS English Teacher here. We do our best. But the kind of feedback OP is talking about it not physically possible anymore.

All of my 5 classes are 29 students+. If I was to give the time I wanted to all students, it would take 5 minutes per essay AT LEAST. I’m not a math teacher but….
29x5=145 students.
145x5mins=over 12 hours of grading

Not to mention we have two large papers per 9 weeks or so. We only have 1.5 hours of planning per day. 7.5 hours per week to plan, grade, cover classes, attend meetings..

I refuse to work past the duty day anymore. The only solution is to reduce class sizes and allow us our full planning time during the school day.

I leave feedback on the rough draft and encourage them to come in at lunch or go to the writing center. I also conference during class time. However, the main feedback is given on the rough draft. If I provided them feedback on the rough draft, I don’t give feedback again on the final. No time.

Agree that we need smaller class sizes.

MCPS wastes so much money on useless random initiatives. Let’s reallocate that money to more teachers and smaller class sizes, which would benefit all students.

[Anonymous]

I am a first grade teacher and all of my written assignments have feedback in to a rubric. I also do quick 4 minute conferences with them throughout the week before passing copying the assignment for their portfolio and sending it home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS English Teacher here. We do our best. But the kind of feedback OP is talking about it not physically possible anymore.

All of my 5 classes are 29 students+. If I was to give the time I wanted to all students, it would take 5 minutes per essay AT LEAST. I’m not a math teacher but….
29x5=145 students.
145x5mins=over 12 hours of grading

Not to mention we have two large papers per 9 weeks or so. We only have 1.5 hours of planning per day. 7.5 hours per week to plan, grade, cover classes, attend meetings..

I refuse to work past the duty day anymore. The only solution is to reduce class sizes and allow us our full planning time during the school day.

I leave feedback on the rough draft and encourage them to come in at lunch or go to the writing center. I also conference during class time. However, the main feedback is given on the rough draft. If I provided them feedback on the rough draft, I don’t give feedback again on the final. No time.

Agree that we need smaller class sizes.

MCPS wastes so much money on useless random initiatives. Let’s reallocate that money to more teachers and smaller class sizes, which would benefit all students.

You're a high school teacher. An elementary teacher has max 28-30 students. They should be able to provide more feedback. FWIW, our child's HS English teacher actually provides real feedback so it is possible. I don't know whether this teacher has to work overtime to do it or is just a genius and really fast but it is really appreciated by the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a first grade teacher and all of my written assignments have feedback in to a rubric. I also do quick 4 minute conferences with them throughout the week before passing copying the assignment for their portfolio and sending it home.

+ This is what we received with most assignments minus with conferences with three kids through elementary except for maybe 2-3 teachers total so most are able to do it in. A lot of thanks to this poster for doing those conferences. It requires a lot more work than many teachers are willing to put in!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know how long it would take to give written detailed on every essay for every student?

And yet somehow in the past it was done. Homework was also graded and corrected. Boggles the mind. Guess time was slower then.

Teachers weren't bogged down with the mindless BS they have to do now. I had one planning period this week to myself. One. I called a parent and graded a few things. I didn't have time to write any lesson plans so I will spend hours on it this weekend. My mom used to teach and she never wrote a lesson plan. That's what the teacher's manual was for. She'd flip the page and teach the next lesson. She did this for every subject. One spelling test per week and an occasional math/science/social studies test. She wasn't chasing down student assignments and calling parents all of the time. If the kid didn't hand it in, they got a zero. She didn't need to document evert attempt to contact the parent. She didn't need to create retakes and grade them. My mom walked into school 15 minutes before the kids and left 15 minutes after the kids. Nothing was done at home.

My mom taught in a high poverty urban school district for four decades starting in the 1960s. They didn’t get a teacher’s edition for the textbooks and they didn’t have a planning period free of meetings. She wrote every lesson herself and set up all of the hands on experiences before leaving each day. Often it was 5 pm or later. After dinner, she graded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know how long it would take to give written detailed on every essay for every student?

And yet somehow in the past it was done. Homework was also graded and corrected. Boggles the mind. Guess time was slower then.

Teachers weren't bogged down with the mindless BS they have to do now. I had one planning period this week to myself. One. I called a parent and graded a few things. I didn't have time to write any lesson plans so I will spend hours on it this weekend. My mom used to teach and she never wrote a lesson plan. That's what the teacher's manual was for. She'd flip the page and teach the next lesson. She did this for every subject. One spelling test per week and an occasional math/science/social studies test. She wasn't chasing down student assignments and calling parents all of the time. If the kid didn't hand it in, they got a zero. She didn't need to document evert attempt to contact the parent. She didn't need to create retakes and grade them. My mom walked into school 15 minutes before the kids and left 15 minutes after the kids. Nothing was done at home.

My mom taught in a high poverty urban school district for four decades starting in the 1960s. They didn’t get a teacher’s edition for the textbooks and they didn’t have a planning period free of meetings. She wrote every lesson herself and set up all of the hands on experiences before leaving each day. Often it was 5 pm or later. After dinner, she graded.

Yeah, this ain't then. Teachers aren't falling for that any more.

[Anonymous]

The problem with no written feedback is that kids ALSO are not getting feedback in the form of regular grades and tests. For whatever reason spelling and grammar tests, and in-class essay tests, are considered passe. When I went to school, students could essentially self-monitor to understand the content expected to be learned and then see where they missed expectations. Getting 8/10 on a spelling test doesn’t require any feedback. Having a sample essay to refer to in a textbook gives you the means to assess your own performance. Now it seems to me that teaching focuses on vague concepts without giving kids a way to understand themselves if they have learned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you know how long it would take to give written detailed on every essay for every student?

And yet somehow in the past it was done. Homework was also graded and corrected. Boggles the mind. Guess time was slower then.

Teachers weren't bogged down with the mindless BS they have to do now. I had one planning period this week to myself. One. I called a parent and graded a few things. I didn't have time to write any lesson plans so I will spend hours on it this weekend. My mom used to teach and she never wrote a lesson plan. That's what the teacher's manual was for. She'd flip the page and teach the next lesson. She did this for every subject. One spelling test per week and an occasional math/science/social studies test. She wasn't chasing down student assignments and calling parents all of the time. If the kid didn't hand it in, they got a zero. She didn't need to document evert attempt to contact the parent. She didn't need to create retakes and grade them. My mom walked into school 15 minutes before the kids and left 15 minutes after the kids. Nothing was done at home.

My mom taught in a high poverty urban school district for four decades starting in the 1960s. They didn’t get a teacher’s edition for the textbooks and they didn’t have a planning period free of meetings. She wrote every lesson herself and set up all of the hands on experiences before leaving each day. Often it was 5 pm or later. After dinner, she graded.

That's nice. I go from school to my 2nd job four days a week. I don't have time or energy to work at home for free.

[Anonymous]

And then they come to me in my college courses and their writing is atrocious and I’m like why didn’t they learn thus ever? It’s not my job to teach basics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HS English Teacher here. We do our best. But the kind of feedback OP is talking about it not physically possible anymore.

All of my 5 classes are 29 students+. If I was to give the time I wanted to all students, it would take 5 minutes per essay AT LEAST. I’m not a math teacher but….
29x5=145 students.
145x5mins=over 12 hours of grading

Not to mention we have two large papers per 9 weeks or so. We only have 1.5 hours of planning per day. 7.5 hours per week to plan, grade, cover classes, attend meetings..

I refuse to work past the duty day anymore. The only solution is to reduce class sizes and allow us our full planning time during the school day.

I leave feedback on the rough draft and encourage them to come in at lunch or go to the writing center. I also conference during class time. However, the main feedback is given on the rough draft. If I provided them feedback on the rough draft, I don’t give feedback again on the final. No time.

For my kids the rough draft is a peer reviewed completion grade...and the final might have one brief line at the top. "Focus on punctuation more next time" or "Interesting views" When I try to work with them, they think I am crazy because the teacher never comments on things like passive voice or organization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HS English Teacher here. We do our best. But the kind of feedback OP is talking about it not physically possible anymore.

All of my 5 classes are 29 students+. If I was to give the time I wanted to all students, it would take 5 minutes per essay AT LEAST. I’m not a math teacher but….
29x5=145 students.
145x5mins=over 12 hours of grading

Not to mention we have two large papers per 9 weeks or so. We only have 1.5 hours of planning per day. 7.5 hours per week to plan, grade, cover classes, attend meetings..

I refuse to work past the duty day anymore. The only solution is to reduce class sizes and allow us our full planning time during the school day.

I leave feedback on the rough draft and encourage them to come in at lunch or go to the writing center. I also conference during class time. However, the main feedback is given on the rough draft. If I provided them feedback on the rough draft, I don’t give feedback again on the final. No time.

Agree that we need smaller class sizes.

MCPS wastes so much money on useless random initiatives. Let’s reallocate that money to more teachers and smaller class sizes, which would benefit all students.

You're a high school teacher. An elementary teacher has max 28-30 students. They should be able to provide more feedback. FWIW, our child's HS English teacher actually provides real feedback so it is possible. I don't know whether this teacher has to work overtime to do it or is just a genius and really fast but it is really appreciated by the students.

It’s overtime. I left comments on junior papers last weekend. It took 14 hours to get through 3/4th the pile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with no written feedback is that kids ALSO are not getting feedback in the form of regular grades and tests. For whatever reason spelling and grammar tests, and in-class essay tests, are considered passe. When I went to school, students could essentially self-monitor to understand the content expected to be learned and then see where they missed expectations. Getting 8/10 on a spelling test doesn’t require any feedback. Having a sample essay to refer to in a textbook gives you the means to assess your own performance. Now it seems to me that teaching focuses on vague concepts without giving kids a way to understand themselves if they have learned.

Because MCPS does not want to spend money on textbooks. MCPS prefers to spend money on other things.

[Anonymous]

My kid got it in ELC in 4th/5th. Then nothing at all in 6th or 7th (besides the generic "great job"!). Her 8th grade teacher is amazing though - pages of commentary.

She's young though. She is not burned out yet, fortunately for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with no written feedback is that kids ALSO are not getting feedback in the form of regular grades and tests. For whatever reason spelling and grammar tests, and in-class essay tests, are considered passe. When I went to school, students could essentially self-monitor to understand the content expected to be learned and then see where they missed expectations. Getting 8/10 on a spelling test doesn’t require any feedback. Having a sample essay to refer to in a textbook gives you the means to assess your own performance. Now it seems to me that teaching focuses on vague concepts without giving kids a way to understand themselves if they have learned.

Exactly. Your comment makes too much sense for people to really consider it though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And then they come to me in my college courses and their writing is atrocious and I’m like why didn’t they learn thus ever? It’s not my job to teach basics

That's why most decent colleges have frosh writing courses.