Law school vs. grad school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:JD and PhD have nothing to do with one another. Different prerequisites, different expectations for learning, different ways of proving qualifications, different goals, different demographics, different professional prospects.

Thanks, Sherlock, but the OP is already aware they are different & is asking for details about what those differences ARE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BUT, do you want to be a lawyer? There are many skills involved with "success" in law that do not necessarily involve being an intellectual or the most academic curious person in the room. Law firms are essentually businesses that have to attract potential clients and convince clients to hire and pay them.

Half of law school graduates go work at law firms. You're leaving out the other half that end up with the government, in-house, clerkships, academia, etc.

Grads don't typically go in-house right away. No one goes to academia right away. Clerkships are temporary. Government, yes, I guess.

You're telling me the ABA is lying?
https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/administrative/legal_education_and_admissions_to_the_bar/statistics/2023/class-2022-online-table.pdf

Clerkships aren't any less "temporary" than working at a law firm. Plenty of BigLaw junior associates move in-house or elsewhere after a couple of years.

[Anonymous]

Is studying law more like studying philosophy or studying public administration?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is studying law more like studying philosophy or studying public administration?

I never studied public administration (and don't really know what it is) but majored in philosophy. Public administration sounds more practical than philosophy. I'm guessing law is somewhere between the two. I don't know why people think political science is a good major for law school bc law school really doesn't have anything to do with political science. Philosophy may be better preparation. Or something like math, engineering, English.

[Anonymous]

Law school teaches you to spot issues and create/rebut arguments using primary resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law school teaches you to spot issues and create/rebut arguments using primary resources.

This is it in a nutshell. And a lot of reading is assigned to accomplish it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law school teaches you to spot issues and create/rebut arguments using primary resources.

So...like history?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school teaches you to spot issues and create/rebut arguments using primary resources.

So...like history?

Philosophy & History are solid majors for those looking toward attending law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is studying law more like studying philosophy or studying public administration?

I never studied public administration (and don't really know what it is) but majored in philosophy. Public administration sounds more practical than philosophy. I'm guessing law is somewhere between the two. I don't know why people think political science is a good major for law school bc law school really doesn't have anything to do with political science. Philosophy may be better preparation. Or something like math, engineering, English.

Political science is a solid major and it's by far the most common major of law students, so there's obviously nothing wrong with studying it. But there's no particular advantage to studying political science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The big difference in kind of course is the dissertation. And grades don't really matter in grad school, while in law school they do.

But I'm curious if anyone can speak to the experience of both law and grad school in say, political science or history.

What's the difference in reading load like in the courses? And is law school as conceptually difficult as grad school? Law is interesting in that it is a first degree in the subject, not advanced study, but the learning curve is obviously higher than in undergrad.

Is it fair to say the knowledge base of the law degree and bar exam is similar to the PhD student up to the level of qualifying exams and without the dissertation?

Reading load is high in both, but the variety of reading done for the PhD is tremendously varied. If you are pursuing a PhD in PS or Hist, you are going to read law cases, but also a ton of other materials and texts from different time periods. In History, there's a good chance you'll need to master reading in a foreign language or two.
Law school is conceptually specific. It's mastering an elite trade. The PhD is conceptually varied and more creative. To successfully defend your dissertation, you need to have generated original research.
Knowledge base of the law degree is more than an MA but less than qualifying exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Law school is much more of a grind than grad school. You seem very confused OP.

I think it is the opposite. Do law students have teaching responsibilities in addition to full time class loads?

[Anonymous]

Most PhDs in political science type fields get the PhD to become university professors. There are some other career routes, but the default is academia. Most law students do it to practice law in some way-- either in a company, government entity, or law firm. These are incredibly different careers and life paths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school is much more of a grind than grad school. You seem very confused OP.

I think it is the opposite. Do law students have teaching responsibilities in addition to full time class loads?

Not sure what people mean by 'grind.' Law classes are more like undergrad classes-- memorization, reading non-scholarly work. PhD is much more intellectually challenging-- learning theoretical frameworks and empirical papers with advanced statistics. The objective is for the student to master the current state of the art (intellectually) and then to contribute knowledge beyond the current frontier. It's much more challenging, intellectually, and more work. But I wouldn't call it a 'grind.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They aren't really the same thing.

I have a JD and an MFA in creative writing which is a terminal degree. So my grad degree was in English with an emphasis on writing fiction -- it was 3 years of coursework, and included a thesis. I would say my reading load was about the same in both programs -- in grad school I read about 3 novels a week plus a few essays and stories. It was a lot. Obviously in law school you are reading cases instead, but I'd say the amount of reading was about the same -- just verging on too much to do, lol. In law school I was able to read less my second and third year and rely on study aids instead, but there was no way to do that with grad school -- I had to read it all (but my degree was English, of course, so that might vary with history or poli sci). Law school was far more social, I had a lot of extracurricular activities like Moot Court Board that took up at least as much time as my regular studies.

Conceptually, I found law school easier -- I naturally think like a lawyer and I'm a good test taker. As far as my MFA goes I hadn't majored in English in undergrad so there was a bit of a learning curve for me there. But that is definitely not going to be the case for everyone -- lots of folks who don't naturally "think like a lawyer" struggle a lot with law school.

As far as the bar exam and PhD qualifying exams ... I didn't do a Phd, so I don't know how that compares, but it seems like you are probably comparing apples to oranges. FWIW, I took the CA bar and found it pretty easy. But agin, the thinking like a lawyer thing comes naturally to me, I just have an analytical brain, so YMMV.

You didn’t make law review, I gather. So how “easy” was law school for you really?

It was quite easy. No I didn't make law review but I graduated top 15% at a first tier school. What about you? That's what I thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school is much more of a grind than grad school. You seem very confused OP.

I think it is the opposite. Do law students have teaching responsibilities in addition to full time class loads?

Not sure what people mean by 'grind.' Law classes are more like undergrad classes-- memorization, reading non-scholarly work. PhD is much more intellectually challenging-- learning theoretical frameworks and empirical papers with advanced statistics. The objective is for the student to master the current state of the art (intellectually) and then to contribute knowledge beyond the current frontier. It's much more challenging, intellectually, and more work. But I wouldn't call it a 'grind.'

One difference is that if you're getting a PhD in something, you're generally interested in the subject matter. In law, the classes can be hit or miss as far as whether they interest you or not. For example, PhD with a dissertation on literature from the American South over a certain period of history versus Cotracts, Tax, Civil Procedure, etc.