Struggling in Hon Precalculus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, what progression of math classes did your child do in MS to get to honors precalc in 9th? I suspect that the compression was too fast and he lost out of some key skills that are needed for precalc.

Usually its Algebra in 6th. I have a child on this track. It isn't compressed, but they do miss pre-algebra. Percale really ramps up and for us its a very different teaching and class style (we are much happier with it but its been a rough few weeks and starting to adjust).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at Wootton in Honors PreCalc as well. The teacher is very intimidating and explained at BTS night that this will be a hard class. She said real math starts now and everything prior to this did not count. I was scared leaving BTS night. We have a tutor now once a week via Zoom. Not sure if it will help as we just started. NHS and advisory period can be used for help as well. Or before school this particular teacher is there for visits.

Is your child complaining that assessments are very short like 20 minutes for 10 problems? This has been one of my son’s issues. That said I do not want to blame the teacher in any way, although I was scared too leaving BTS night.

I will. This teacher is putting his own ego above the students's learning, compensating for his own insecurity by lording over the students that he is better at math than they are.

My excellent AP teacher said that when he gives a test, he times himself doing it, and then gives the kids triple that time.

You are making stuff up. Why would you jump to that conclusion? Perhaps the students in question are just ill-prepared.

The students in question aren't unprepared at Back to School Night.

There's no "preparation" for gimmicky speed tests. That's plain bad pedagogy.

I agree, quizzes where students are still learning the concepts, but also designed to put them in time pressure are a terrible idea. Teachers should be considerate of giving a reasonable amount of time if they actually want to test student understanding.

The real problem is in MS these kids weren't having a lot of homework or classwork or problem sets to get a good mastery of the concepts and they weren't having a lot of quizzes and tests so high school when you are doing AP and pre-cal is a huge adjustment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what progression of math classes did your child do in MS to get to honors precalc in 9th? I suspect that the compression was too fast and he lost out of some key skills that are needed for precalc.

Usually its Algebra in 6th. I have a child on this track. It isn't compressed, but they do miss pre-algebra. Percale really ramps up and for us its a very different teaching and class style (we are much happier with it but its been a rough few weeks and starting to adjust).

Missing pre-algebra (as opposed to cover it on your own, through AoPS, RSM, or another rigorous class) seems like a bad idea. Kids could leave algebra 2 without a deep understanding of the concepts, which puts them at a distinct disadvantage for pre-calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at Wootton in Honors PreCalc as well. The teacher is very intimidating and explained at BTS night that this will be a hard class. She said real math starts now and everything prior to this did not count. I was scared leaving BTS night. We have a tutor now once a week via Zoom. Not sure if it will help as we just started. NHS and advisory period can be used for help as well. Or before school this particular teacher is there for visits.

Is your child complaining that assessments are very short like 20 minutes for 10 problems? This has been one of my son’s issues. That said I do not want to blame the teacher in any way, although I was scared too leaving BTS night.

I will. This teacher is putting his own ego above the students's learning, compensating for his own insecurity by lording over the students that he is better at math than they are.

My excellent AP teacher said that when he gives a test, he times himself doing it, and then gives the kids triple that time.

You are making stuff up. Why would you jump to that conclusion? Perhaps the students in question are just ill-prepared.

The students in question aren't unprepared at Back to School Night.

There's no "preparation" for gimmicky speed tests. That's plain bad pedagogy.

I agree, quizzes where students are still learning the concepts, but also designed to put them in time pressure are a terrible idea. Teachers should be considerate of giving a reasonable amount of time if they actually want to test student understanding.

The real problem is in MS these kids weren't having a lot of homework or classwork or problem sets to get a good mastery of the concepts and they weren't having a lot of quizzes and tests so high school when you are doing AP and pre-cal is a huge adjustment.

My kid is only in AIM now, but there is definitely quite a bit of homework and regular classwork and assessments. This may vary by school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. He is in 9th. 8th grade MapM was 282. I am honestly in a new territory here because I have never had to worry about anything school related. We have always been very hands off with school with all of our kids. Older sibling took regular precalculus in 10th but in a different district. Never had any tutors for math or any of the AP courses. Older sibling is in an engineering program at UMD. This DS, middle child, also wants to be a physicist. He is worried that moving down to regular precalculus will be counted against him during college admissions. He wanted to take Calculus AB in 10th, BC in 11th and AP stats in 12th. He took Algebra 1 in 6th during COVID years but did AoPS Algebra 1 concurrently, so if he has gaps they have to be from Algebra 2. I will try to persuade him to take regular precalculus.

I don't get being a hands off parent. Can you help him? If not get a tutor. Pre-cal is far harder than any other math. Our pre-cal teacher is very good and it's a very different teaching style with a textbook and a lot more homework. We are very hands on and a parent helps and reviews it with our child. I would not have him drop down.

Wait, a textbook!?! Please share the name and author. My child's teacher doesn’t use a textbook instead uses Delta Math which according to my child the problem set in Delta Math are easier than what shows up on tests/quizzes.

If you can share a textbook I would really appreciate it. I don't mind refreshing my mind on these materials and teaching it to my child. I love Math and have no problem re-learning pre-cal.

Our school only has a classroom copy but they gave use the name to buy it. Search around as prices vary - the editions are pretty similar and the answer guide is online. A bunch of places have it between $10-30 used.

Precalculus: Graphical, Numerical, Algebraic (8th Edition)
Franklin D. Demana

Here is an online version: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=Zmhwcy5uZXR8bXJzdGVmfGd4OjIwMDU1MDUyMDczMTJlOA

Awesome! Thank you so very much. Really....I appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what progression of math classes did your child do in MS to get to honors precalc in 9th? I suspect that the compression was too fast and he lost out of some key skills that are needed for precalc.

Usually its Algebra in 6th. I have a child on this track. It isn't compressed, but they do miss pre-algebra. Percale really ramps up and for us its a very different teaching and class style (we are much happier with it but its been a rough few weeks and starting to adjust).

Missing pre-algebra (as opposed to cover it on your own, through AoPS, RSM, or another rigorous class) seems like a bad idea. Kids could leave algebra 2 without a deep understanding of the concepts, which puts them at a distinct disadvantage for pre-calc.

It depends on the classes/teachers. My kid skipped aim/pre-algebra and it was fine. The difference is the teaching style, which for us is much stronger and much more homework/classwork and actual teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at Wootton in Honors PreCalc as well. The teacher is very intimidating and explained at BTS night that this will be a hard class. She said real math starts now and everything prior to this did not count. I was scared leaving BTS night. We have a tutor now once a week via Zoom. Not sure if it will help as we just started. NHS and advisory period can be used for help as well. Or before school this particular teacher is there for visits.

Is your child complaining that assessments are very short like 20 minutes for 10 problems? This has been one of my son’s issues. That said I do not want to blame the teacher in any way, although I was scared too leaving BTS night.

I will. This teacher is putting his own ego above the students's learning, compensating for his own insecurity by lording over the students that he is better at math than they are.

My excellent AP teacher said that when he gives a test, he times himself doing it, and then gives the kids triple that time.

You are making stuff up. Why would you jump to that conclusion? Perhaps the students in question are just ill-prepared.

The students in question aren't unprepared at Back to School Night.

There's no "preparation" for gimmicky speed tests. That's plain bad pedagogy.

I agree, quizzes where students are still learning the concepts, but also designed to put them in time pressure are a terrible idea. Teachers should be considerate of giving a reasonable amount of time if they actually want to test student understanding.

The real problem is in MS these kids weren't having a lot of homework or classwork or problem sets to get a good mastery of the concepts and they weren't having a lot of quizzes and tests so high school when you are doing AP and pre-cal is a huge adjustment.

My kid is only in AIM now, but there is definitely quite a bit of homework and regular classwork and assessments. This may vary by school.

It varies by school and teacher. One poster said they aren't using textbooks for precal and two of us are saying our kids have textbooks. Our school only gives the online version but because it's an older book its pretty cheap to buy and they did say they had a few copies to loan out of kids who couldn't buy it. Ours had very little homework/classwork till now. Its also a huge adjustment from MS to HS.

[Anonymous]

OP your kid probably isn't going to be a physicist because almost no one is a physicist.

Honors precalculus doesn't matter for college apps because he'll have 3 years of math after it.

What's more interesting is that he already has a D and the year has barely started. Something is going on there -- harsh grading, massive lack of preparation or just cognitive immaturity since he's young.

Retaking Algebra II Honors might be better. Use the lighter class to have time to deeper in review and study (AoPS, whatever), then Precalc next year, solid Calc BC the year after, and one more year of advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP your kid probably isn't going to be a physicist because almost no one is a physicist.

Honors precalculus doesn't matter for college apps because he'll have 3 years of math after it.

What's more interesting is that he already has a D and the year has barely started. Something is going on there -- harsh grading, massive lack of preparation or just cognitive immaturity since he's young.

Retaking Algebra II Honors might be better. Use the lighter class to have time to deeper in review and study (AoPS, whatever), then Precalc next year, solid Calc BC the year after, and one more year of advanced math.

You don't need AopS, they just need a tutor or parent support. Do you own stock in AoPs because you keep pushing it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back. He is in 9th. 8th grade MapM was 282. I am honestly in a new territory here because I have never had to worry about anything school related. We have always been very hands off with school with all of our kids. Older sibling took regular precalculus in 10th but in a different district. Never had any tutors for math or any of the AP courses. Older sibling is in an engineering program at UMD. This DS, middle child, also wants to be a physicist. He is worried that moving down to regular precalculus will be counted against him during college admissions. He wanted to take Calculus AB in 10th, BC in 11th and AP stats in 12th. He took Algebra 1 in 6th during COVID years but did AoPS Algebra 1 concurrently, so if he has gaps they have to be from Algebra 2. I will try to persuade him to take regular precalculus.

NP here. Honors Precalculus is where students first start to encounter a lot of abstract thinking in math. Also, ages 12-15 is a big shift in adolescent brain development where they shift from very concrete, literal thinking to more abstract reasoning. Your son may simply have outpaced his brain’s development. Assure him that a slowdown right now doesn’t mean he can’t still be on the long term path he’s aiming for.

My suggestion is to take regular Precalc right now, and then Honors Precalc in the summer. And then continue with AB Calculus next fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP your kid probably isn't going to be a physicist because almost no one is a physicist.

Honors precalculus doesn't matter for college apps because he'll have 3 years of math after it.

What's more interesting is that he already has a D and the year has barely started. Something is going on there -- harsh grading, massive lack of preparation or just cognitive immaturity since he's young.

Retaking Algebra II Honors might be better. Use the lighter class to have time to deeper in review and study (AoPS, whatever), then Precalc next year, solid Calc BC the year after, and one more year of advanced math.

And honestly nid they loaned all of those out and a parent/student noted to the teacher/math lead/principal that the student needed a physical copy to perform well, the district would be on the hook to provide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back. He is in 9th. 8th grade MapM was 282. I am honestly in a new territory here because I have never had to worry about anything school related. We have always been very hands off with school with all of our kids. Older sibling took regular precalculus in 10th but in a different district. Never had any tutors for math or any of the AP courses. Older sibling is in an engineering program at UMD. This DS, middle child, also wants to be a physicist. He is worried that moving down to regular precalculus will be counted against him during college admissions. He wanted to take Calculus AB in 10th, BC in 11th and AP stats in 12th. He took Algebra 1 in 6th during COVID years but did AoPS Algebra 1 concurrently, so if he has gaps they have to be from Algebra 2. I will try to persuade him to take regular precalculus.

NP here. Honors Precalculus is where students first start to encounter a lot of abstract thinking in math. Also, ages 12-15 is a big shift in adolescent brain development where they shift from very concrete, literal thinking to more abstract reasoning. Your son may simply have outpaced his brain’s development. Assure him that a slowdown right now doesn’t mean he can’t still be on the long term path he’s aiming for.

My suggestion is to take regular Precalc right now, and then Honors Precalc in the summer. And then continue with AB Calculus next fall.

What abstract thinking is in Precalculus but not Algebra or Geometry?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your kid probably isn't going to be a physicist because almost no one is a physicist.

Honors precalculus doesn't matter for college apps because he'll have 3 years of math after it.

What's more interesting is that he already has a D and the year has barely started. Something is going on there -- harsh grading, massive lack of preparation or just cognitive immaturity since he's young.

Retaking Algebra II Honors might be better. Use the lighter class to have time to deeper in review and study (AoPS, whatever), then Precalc next year, solid Calc BC the year after, and one more year of advanced math.

You don't need AopS, they just need a tutor or parent support. Do you own stock in AoPs because you keep pushing it?

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[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your kid probably isn't going to be a physicist because almost no one is a physicist.

Honors precalculus doesn't matter for college apps because he'll have 3 years of math after it.

What's more interesting is that he already has a D and the year has barely started. Something is going on there -- harsh grading, massive lack of preparation or just cognitive immaturity since he's young.

Retaking Algebra II Honors might be better. Use the lighter class to have time to deeper in review and study (AoPS, whatever), then Precalc next year, solid Calc BC the year after, and one more year of advanced math.

You don't need AopS, they just need a tutor or parent support. Do you own stock in AoPs because you keep pushing it?

Don't forget to take your pills before bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your kid probably isn't going to be a physicist because almost no one is a physicist.

Honors precalculus doesn't matter for college apps because he'll have 3 years of math after it.

What's more interesting is that he already has a D and the year has barely started. Something is going on there -- harsh grading, massive lack of preparation or just cognitive immaturity since he's young.

Retaking Algebra II Honors might be better. Use the lighter class to have time to deeper in review and study (AoPS, whatever), then Precalc next year, solid Calc BC the year after, and one more year of advanced math.

You don't need AopS, they just need a tutor or parent support. Do you own stock in AoPs because you keep pushing it?

Don't forget to take your pills before bed.

Thanks, but I don't need pills, and why are you pushing AoPs and repeating Algebra. Why don't you take your pills and let someone else give better advice.