If ATS is so popular, why not create two of them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After we visited the school, most parents milled outside wondering why more schools weren't like this. It really did not seem like an out of the world school that couldn't be recreated. It seemed like a good school with high expectations for children and parents and it made us sad that it seemed to be such an outlier (such that a lottery was necessary due to all the demand)

I only started getting APS emails after my first was already in kinder in APS. By that point there is very little movement into option schools if you don’t get in that first year. How exactly would APS have know how to contact me before the enrolled my first in public school?

It’s the “no deadweight” model. Literally every kid has a parent that knows about and has figured out how to navigate the lottery. That’s the part that can’t be replicated, at least not without eating into the neighborhood schools.

How hard is it to figure out the lottery? I can't believe that's the major difference... It's all over the APS website and we get multiple communications about it! Are there that many parents that don't know about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After we visited the school, most parents milled outside wondering why more schools weren't like this. It really did not seem like an out of the world school that couldn't be recreated. It seemed like a good school with high expectations for children and parents and it made us sad that it seemed to be such an outlier (such that a lottery was necessary due to all the demand)

It’s the “no deadweight” model. Literally every kid has a parent that knows about and has figured out how to navigate the lottery. That’s the part that can’t be replicated, at least not without eating into the neighborhood schools.

How hard is it to figure out the lottery? I can't believe that's the major difference... It's all over the APS website and we get multiple communications about it! Are there that many parents that don't know about it?

Trying again.

I only started getting APS emails after my first was already in kinder in APS. By that point there is very little movement into option schools if you don’t get in that first year. How exactly would APS have know how to contact me before the enrolled my first in public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After we visited the school, most parents milled outside wondering why more schools weren't like this. It really did not seem like an out of the world school that couldn't be recreated. It seemed like a good school with high expectations for children and parents and it made us sad that it seemed to be such an outlier (such that a lottery was necessary due to all the demand)

It’s the “no deadweight” model. Literally every kid has a parent that knows about and has figured out how to navigate the lottery. That’s the part that can’t be replicated, at least not without eating into the neighborhood schools.

How hard is it to figure out the lottery? I can't believe that's the major difference... It's all over the APS website and we get multiple communications about it! Are there that many parents that don't know about it?

Trying again.

I only started getting APS emails after my first was already in kinder in APS. By that point there is very little movement into option schools if you don’t get in that first year. How exactly would APS have know how to contact me before the enrolled my first in public school?

As others seem to insist on another thread about IB at WL, apparently parents are supposed to do their research which must include at least all of the following: talking to the principal of your neighborhood school, talking to admin at other schools, talking to neighbors, talking to parents who have kids at option schools, talking to parents who put in for option schools but didn't get in, and reading the APS website and policies (and not necessarily taking those at their written word).

In other words, you wouldn't. But schools should implement open houses/orientations for rising kindergartner families and they could provide information on the option programs and application procedures. We were not considering any option schools when our first child started kindergarten; but I came close to considering one (Campbell) after attending a general "Kindergarten preparedness" presentation held there. It was pretty clever of them, imo. It wasn't an orientation or a "come learn about Campbell" billing or presentation. But they did describe how they do things there and the principal at the time was very impressive, so I started to think about it. Perhaps every elementary school should hold such a presentation for new families registering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me the real question is-- "why not replicate ATS best practices?". As I understand it from friends who have kids there--they get weekly reports from the Kinder teacher on each student--not so at my DC's APS elementary. There is homework from kindergarten on at ATS--homework did not start until 3rd grade at my DC's school.

It makes no sense at all that APS does not identify best practices from the most popular APS school and replicate them in part or full at all other APS elementary schools. Seems like a no brainer!

Some schools have started doing this, I think. Some aspects are more feasible to replicate than others.

Generally, ATS' best practices are high expectations of students and parents, no automatic advancement to next grade, emphasis on arts (every student plays an instrument throughout 4th and 5th, every student is in choir in 4th and 5th, every student performs in a play from 1st-5th), weekly feedback how the student is doing, everyone participates in schoolwide initiatives (must submit for contests, etc. grades 3-5), responsive classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After we visited the school, most parents milled outside wondering why more schools weren't like this. It really did not seem like an out of the world school that couldn't be recreated. It seemed like a good school with high expectations for children and parents and it made us sad that it seemed to be such an outlier (such that a lottery was necessary due to all the demand)

It’s the “no deadweight” model. Literally every kid has a parent that knows about and has figured out how to navigate the lottery. That’s the part that can’t be replicated, at least not without eating into the neighborhood schools.

How hard is it to figure out the lottery? I can't believe that's the major difference... It's all over the APS website and we get multiple communications about it! Are there that many parents that don't know about it?

Trying again.

I only started getting APS emails after my first was already in kinder in APS. By that point there is very little movement into option schools if you don’t get in that first year. How exactly would APS have know how to contact me before the enrolled my first in public school?

Kindergarten Information Night. In person, and later available online. Every January before the next school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After we visited the school, most parents milled outside wondering why more schools weren't like this. It really did not seem like an out of the world school that couldn't be recreated. It seemed like a good school with high expectations for children and parents and it made us sad that it seemed to be such an outlier (such that a lottery was necessary due to all the demand)

I only started getting APS emails after my first was already in kinder in APS. By that point there is very little movement into option schools if you don’t get in that first year. How exactly would APS have know how to contact me before the enrolled my first in public school?

It’s the “no deadweight” model. Literally every kid has a parent that knows about and has figured out how to navigate the lottery. That’s the part that can’t be replicated, at least not without eating into the neighborhood schools.

How hard is it to figure out the lottery? I can't believe that's the major difference... It's all over the APS website and we get multiple communications about it! Are there that many parents that don't know about it?

The lottery is now super easy, agreed. You used to have to show up to at least two in person tours (your neighborhood and your choice school) and get a stamp or something, and file in person by the deadline. Those times are long gone. Now less than 5 minutes time investment, and non-US parents are taking part from outside of the US, anticipating a move. So if they can figure it out....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree w having more option schools. The answer is to follow the ATS model in neighborhood schools. We seem to be moving in opposite direction though w equity grading.

I guess I could never get a good feel for what "traditional" meant. I realize there's a heavy emphasis on reading and homework every day. And tucking in shirts (maybe that went away).

But I asked the principal at an info session (this was in 2018) and she gave me this line about the school having walls with doors. I was SO confused. My kid's neighborhood school has walls and doors?

I know the school culture is most likely a bit part of what makes kids successful. But if the ideas there are so well done, why aren't we doing it APS wide? What is the main difference between the way ATS does teaching and the rest of the county? I don't' want to hear it's kindergarten kids reading for 30 minutes a night. That's not a curriculum.

ATS holds all their students to a high standard of reading and reading is a true part of their culture. That's the difference.

Right, which it can ONLY do because it's an option school. So if it DOES NOT WORK for some children (say, those who struggle with reading!) they will not attend ATS, or they will be asked to leave.

That's EXACTLY why it can not be moved into every elementary school. The population self selects into children with certain skills and abilities very quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me the real question is-- "why not replicate ATS best practices?". As I understand it from friends who have kids there--they get weekly reports from the Kinder teacher on each student--not so at my DC's APS elementary. There is homework from kindergarten on at ATS--homework did not start until 3rd grade at my DC's school.

It makes no sense at all that APS does not identify best practices from the most popular APS school and replicate them in part or full at all other APS elementary schools. Seems like a no brainer!

Some schools have started doing this, I think. Some aspects are more feasible to replicate than others.

Generally, ATS' best practices are high expectations of students and parents, no automatic advancement to next grade, emphasis on arts (every student plays an instrument throughout 4th and 5th, every student is in choir in 4th and 5th, every student performs in a play from 1st-5th), weekly feedback how the student is doing, everyone participates in schoolwide initiatives (must submit for contests, etc. grades 3-5), responsive classroom.

Don't they also have a more traditional approach to instruction and homework?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After we visited the school, most parents milled outside wondering why more schools weren't like this. It really did not seem like an out of the world school that couldn't be recreated. It seemed like a good school with high expectations for children and parents and it made us sad that it seemed to be such an outlier (such that a lottery was necessary due to all the demand)

It’s the “no deadweight” model. Literally every kid has a parent that knows about and has figured out how to navigate the lottery. That’s the part that can’t be replicated, at least not without eating into the neighborhood schools.

How hard is it to figure out the lottery? I can't believe that's the major difference... It's all over the APS website and we get multiple communications about it! Are there that many parents that don't know about it?

Trying again.

I only started getting APS emails after my first was already in kinder in APS. By that point there is very little movement into option schools if you don’t get in that first year. How exactly would APS have know how to contact me before the enrolled my first in public school?

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree w having more option schools. The answer is to follow the ATS model in neighborhood schools. We seem to be moving in opposite direction though w equity grading.

I guess I could never get a good feel for what "traditional" meant. I realize there's a heavy emphasis on reading and homework every day. And tucking in shirts (maybe that went away).

But I asked the principal at an info session (this was in 2018) and she gave me this line about the school having walls with doors. I was SO confused. My kid's neighborhood school has walls and doors?

I know the school culture is most likely a bit part of what makes kids successful. But if the ideas there are so well done, why aren't we doing it APS wide? What is the main difference between the way ATS does teaching and the rest of the county? I don't' want to hear it's kindergarten kids reading for 30 minutes a night. That's not a curriculum.

ATS holds all their students to a high standard of reading and reading is a true part of their culture. That's the difference.

Right, which it can ONLY do because it's an option school. So if it DOES NOT WORK for some children (say, those who struggle with reading!) they will not attend ATS, or they will be asked to leave.

That's EXACTLY why it can not be moved into every elementary school. The population self selects into children with certain skills and abilities very quickly.

Say what? Am I understanding your post correctly: ATS will kick students out if they are not performing on grade level?

Every poster here who said ATS holds its students to higher standards... I assumed on an attitude level? Kids literally get asked to leave if they struggle with reading? This is documented?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After we visited the school, most parents milled outside wondering why more schools weren't like this. It really did not seem like an out of the world school that couldn't be recreated. It seemed like a good school with high expectations for children and parents and it made us sad that it seemed to be such an outlier (such that a lottery was necessary due to all the demand)

I only started getting APS emails after my first was already in kinder in APS. By that point there is very little movement into option schools if you don’t get in that first year. How exactly would APS have know how to contact me before the enrolled my first in public school?

It’s the “no deadweight” model. Literally every kid has a parent that knows about and has figured out how to navigate the lottery. That’s the part that can’t be replicated, at least not without eating into the neighborhood schools.

How hard is it to figure out the lottery? I can't believe that's the major difference... It's all over the APS website and we get multiple communications about it! Are there that many parents that don't know about it?

The lottery is now super easy, agreed. You used to have to show up to at least two in person tours (your neighborhood and your choice school) and get a stamp or something, and file in person by the deadline. Those times are long gone. Now less than 5 minutes time investment, and non-US parents are taking part from outside of the US, anticipating a move. So if they can figure it out....

Yeah I don't get it... You have a lot of time before your kid starts school, you never check out the website or ask your neighbors about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree w having more option schools. The answer is to follow the ATS model in neighborhood schools. We seem to be moving in opposite direction though w equity grading.

I guess I could never get a good feel for what "traditional" meant. I realize there's a heavy emphasis on reading and homework every day. And tucking in shirts (maybe that went away).

But I asked the principal at an info session (this was in 2018) and she gave me this line about the school having walls with doors. I was SO confused. My kid's neighborhood school has walls and doors?

I know the school culture is most likely a bit part of what makes kids successful. But if the ideas there are so well done, why aren't we doing it APS wide? What is the main difference between the way ATS does teaching and the rest of the county? I don't' want to hear it's kindergarten kids reading for 30 minutes a night. That's not a curriculum.

ATS holds all their students to a high standard of reading and reading is a true part of their culture. That's the difference.

Right, which it can ONLY do because it's an option school. So if it DOES NOT WORK for some children (say, those who struggle with reading!) they will not attend ATS, or they will be asked to leave.

That's EXACTLY why it can not be moved into every elementary school. The population self selects into children with certain skills and abilities very quickly.

The population has both high farms rate and high ELL rate. Their rates even exceed some of the other option schools that families also self select into.

ATS results beat out every other elementary in aps. It’s not just self selection or kids with certain skills and abilities. It’s a focus on teaching reading right early, homework for practice, weekly reports for parents. Those are things every APS school could be doing. Not every parent will be as engaged as ATS requires, but those 3 things would go a long way at all of our schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is at Campbell, which is in some ways the anti-ATS, so I definitely don’t want all of APS to become more like ATS. In fact, I would likely leave if it were. But I don’t mind other people being able to choose homework and instruments and shirts tucked in if that’s what appeals to them, just like I got to choose nature and no homework and social-emotional learning.

I really wish I understood Campbell a little bit better. It sort of flies under the radar. We are on the waitlist there. I reviewed the materials online including presentation, but I could not tell you what it's about really. We like rigor, but also like social emotional learning and nature. I'm surprised to see them painted as such opposites?

My kids are at ATS. ATS has great counselors and also focuses on social emotional learning. My 1st grader absolutely loves her counselor Ms Meydenbaur and absorbs so much of what she says. There is very little bullying and a lot of focus on kindness. I think it’s important to hear from parents who actually have their kids at ATS when discussing what actually happens in the school.

As for the school itself it’s the entire atmosphere. There is a focus on high expectations. Not just when it comes to academics but when it comes to behavior as well. That’s why it attracts parents with a foreign background such as myself because in general we tend to be stricter with our kids. There is a lot of focus on the arts - music, class plays etc. Teachers know what they are doing. Students who come from other schools who are behind get extra help until they have caught up. Too bad there isn’t a middle school with the same approach to expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree w having more option schools. The answer is to follow the ATS model in neighborhood schools. We seem to be moving in opposite direction though w equity grading.

I guess I could never get a good feel for what "traditional" meant. I realize there's a heavy emphasis on reading and homework every day. And tucking in shirts (maybe that went away).

But I asked the principal at an info session (this was in 2018) and she gave me this line about the school having walls with doors. I was SO confused. My kid's neighborhood school has walls and doors?

I know the school culture is most likely a bit part of what makes kids successful. But if the ideas there are so well done, why aren't we doing it APS wide? What is the main difference between the way ATS does teaching and the rest of the county? I don't' want to hear it's kindergarten kids reading for 30 minutes a night. That's not a curriculum.

ATS holds all their students to a high standard of reading and reading is a true part of their culture. That's the difference.

Right, which it can ONLY do because it's an option school. So if it DOES NOT WORK for some children (say, those who struggle with reading!) they will not attend ATS, or they will be asked to leave.

That's EXACTLY why it can not be moved into every elementary school. The population self selects into children with certain skills and abilities very quickly.

The population has both high farms rate and high ELL rate. Their rates even exceed some of the other option schools that families also self select into.

ATS results beat out every other elementary in aps. It’s not just self selection or kids with certain skills and abilities. It’s a focus on teaching reading right early, homework for practice, weekly reports for parents. Those are things every APS school could be doing. Not every parent will be as engaged as ATS requires, but those 3 things would go a long way at all of our schools.

Curious: what happens when a parent isn't "engaged" at ATS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree 100%.
There should at the very least be 2 of them.

I think they kinda did this with the school moves— school size moved from ~400 to closer to ~600-700.