how to address a teacher who cannot teach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

NP here. If this is the current advice, where/how is it playing out and could you point me to whatever research on math instruction that is driving it?

I am looking for a good overview piece. Many articles focus on one component which leads to a forest vs trees issue. Here's a short one which just notes the ongoing debate direct instruction and inquiry learning.
https://www.edutopia.org/article/direct-instruction-inquiry-based-learning

The underlying view of education schools, NCTM, and most state and district math offices is the constructivist idea that students should discover things rather than be taught them. As such, they think direct instruction (sage on a stage) leads to rote learning, boredom, lack of conceptual understanding. They favor teachers acting as a "guide on the side", facilitating student learning, as well as project and problem based learning (PBL). Reformers value encouraging math discourse amongst students (which is often done in small groups), giving kids rich tasks to work on with no one right answer (to promote discussion and offer low floor-high ceiling exercises so all kids can participate in the discussion no matter their level of understanding). Are there benefits to both approaches? Sure. But student-led learning works better when they already have a base of knowledge to tap; it's not good for learning foundational concepts. Also, the more complicated the math topic, the more direct instruction is needed. That said, current reform thinking is veering increasingly toward limiting direct instruction which they think will increase student interest in math. As such, districts tell their teachers not to use direction instruction heavily, offer them PD and coaching to move away from direct instruction and mark them down if they do use it heavily. Some districts now want to use the Math Workshop model in middle and high schools too, where students rotate through stations. This is undermining students' ability to develop a core base of math knowledge and is leading to a boom for tutors, RSM, and AoPS which do explicitly teach the concepts.

Thanks PP. The same debate is taking place for ELA. I didn't realize Math had been just as affected by constructivist learning. I can't believe how behind the curve the school systems are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

NP here. If this is the current advice, where/how is it playing out and could you point me to whatever research on math instruction that is driving it?

I am looking for a good overview piece. Many articles focus on one component which leads to a forest vs trees issue. Here's a short one which just notes the ongoing debate direct instruction and inquiry learning.
https://www.edutopia.org/article/direct-instruction-inquiry-based-learning

The underlying view of education schools, NCTM, and most state and district math offices is the constructivist idea that students should discover things rather than be taught them. As such, they think direct instruction (sage on a stage) leads to rote learning, boredom, lack of conceptual understanding. They favor teachers acting as a "guide on the side", facilitating student learning, as well as project and problem based learning (PBL). Reformers value encouraging math discourse amongst students (which is often done in small groups), giving kids rich tasks to work on with no one right answer (to promote discussion and offer low floor-high ceiling exercises so all kids can participate in the discussion no matter their level of understanding). Are there benefits to both approaches? Sure. But student-led learning works better when they already have a base of knowledge to tap; it's not good for learning foundational concepts. Also, the more complicated the math topic, the more direct instruction is needed. That said, current reform thinking is veering increasingly toward limiting direct instruction which they think will increase student interest in math. As such, districts tell their teachers not to use direction instruction heavily, offer them PD and coaching to move away from direct instruction and mark them down if they do use it heavily. Some districts now want to use the Math Workshop model in middle and high schools too, where students rotate through stations. This is undermining students' ability to develop a core base of math knowledge and is leading to a boom for tutors, RSM, and AoPS which do explicitly teach the concepts.

This is nuts. How are the institutions responsible and tasked with education this inept and incompetent?

It is the current consensus in K-12 education thinking. Like Lucy Calkins was until recently in language arts. Unfortunately, Calkins-like thinking still governs math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

NP here. If this is the current advice, where/how is it playing out and could you point me to whatever research on math instruction that is driving it?

I am looking for a good overview piece. Many articles focus on one component which leads to a forest vs trees issue. Here's a short one which just notes the ongoing debate direct instruction and inquiry learning.
https://www.edutopia.org/article/direct-instruction-inquiry-based-learning

The underlying view of education schools, NCTM, and most state and district math offices is the constructivist idea that students should discover things rather than be taught them. As such, they think direct instruction (sage on a stage) leads to rote learning, boredom, lack of conceptual understanding. They favor teachers acting as a "guide on the side", facilitating student learning, as well as project and problem based learning (PBL). Reformers value encouraging math discourse amongst students (which is often done in small groups), giving kids rich tasks to work on with no one right answer (to promote discussion and offer low floor-high ceiling exercises so all kids can participate in the discussion no matter their level of understanding). Are there benefits to both approaches? Sure. But student-led learning works better when they already have a base of knowledge to tap; it's not good for learning foundational concepts. Also, the more complicated the math topic, the more direct instruction is needed. That said, current reform thinking is veering increasingly toward limiting direct instruction which they think will increase student interest in math. As such, districts tell their teachers not to use direction instruction heavily, offer them PD and coaching to move away from direct instruction and mark them down if they do use it heavily. Some districts now want to use the Math Workshop model in middle and high schools too, where students rotate through stations. This is undermining students' ability to develop a core base of math knowledge and is leading to a boom for tutors, RSM, and AoPS which do explicitly teach the concepts.

This is nuts. How are the institutions responsible and tasked with education this inept and incompetent?

It is the current consensus in K-12 education thinking. Like Lucy Calkins was until recently in language arts. Unfortunately, Calkins-like thinking still governs math.

Yes, but this just runs contrary to common sense and the real-world. If students could teach themselves, what would be the role and purpose of teachers?

And these theories have to be proved out with research and experiments, which I presume they've done to substantiate this theory, that continue to fail when they're implemented outside of the confines of their labs. Which should tell them that their labs are unreliable proxies for education in the real world and to tread far more lightly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

NP here. If this is the current advice, where/how is it playing out and could you point me to whatever research on math instruction that is driving it?

I am looking for a good overview piece. Many articles focus on one component which leads to a forest vs trees issue. Here's a short one which just notes the ongoing debate direct instruction and inquiry learning.
https://www.edutopia.org/article/direct-instruction-inquiry-based-learning

The underlying view of education schools, NCTM, and most state and district math offices is the constructivist idea that students should discover things rather than be taught them. As such, they think direct instruction (sage on a stage) leads to rote learning, boredom, lack of conceptual understanding. They favor teachers acting as a "guide on the side", facilitating student learning, as well as project and problem based learning (PBL). Reformers value encouraging math discourse amongst students (which is often done in small groups), giving kids rich tasks to work on with no one right answer (to promote discussion and offer low floor-high ceiling exercises so all kids can participate in the discussion no matter their level of understanding). Are there benefits to both approaches? Sure. But student-led learning works better when they already have a base of knowledge to tap; it's not good for learning foundational concepts. Also, the more complicated the math topic, the more direct instruction is needed. That said, current reform thinking is veering increasingly toward limiting direct instruction which they think will increase student interest in math. As such, districts tell their teachers not to use direction instruction heavily, offer them PD and coaching to move away from direct instruction and mark them down if they do use it heavily. Some districts now want to use the Math Workshop model in middle and high schools too, where students rotate through stations. This is undermining students' ability to develop a core base of math knowledge and is leading to a boom for tutors, RSM, and AoPS which do explicitly teach the concepts.

Thanks PP. The same debate is taking place for ELA. I didn't realize Math had been just as affected by constructivist learning. I can't believe how behind the curve the school systems are.

I didn't see your comment until after I had posted about Calkins. Yes, same debate unfortunately. ELA is at least making some progress forward. Not so for math yet.

[Anonymous]

I am a middle school teacher and would like to chime in.

It seems many parents expect their students should be A students. Maybe they traditionally have been- but this is a very difficult class. Your kid getting a C doesn’t mean the teacher is a failure; or that your kid is. Some kids get Cs. Not every kid masters every subject. Many parents think every kid should get an A if they “try” and the parent wants them to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Your child is going to have to deal with incompetence their whole life, whether it's a coworker, a boss, or one of their own employees. Getting used to working with a wide variety of people is a good thing. You not bashing the teacher in front of your child will go a long way. Her communication style is just different. Truly it will benefit your child learning to work with this teacher. And in the meantime you're doing the right thing as far as tutors and extra help for your child.

This is spot on. There will be situations in life where she just has to buckle down, do her own research, and get through it. The outcome may not be an A, but I bet she will learn a lot from the process. I'm sorry she has a bad teacher, but it's good practice for all the bad supervisors she'll have.

For OP, yes, good advice. But given county advice to limit direct instruction on math generally (not just calculus), these may not be one-off occurrences. It's the younger teachers (who OP's child has) that are most likely to be following the guidance because they don't know otherwise and are still trying to establish themselves at the school and don't want to be marked down early in their careers.

NP here. If this is the current advice, where/how is it playing out and could you point me to whatever research on math instruction that is driving it?

I am looking for a good overview piece. Many articles focus on one component which leads to a forest vs trees issue. Here's a short one which just notes the ongoing debate direct instruction and inquiry learning.
https://www.edutopia.org/article/direct-instruction-inquiry-based-learning

The underlying view of education schools, NCTM, and most state and district math offices is the constructivist idea that students should discover things rather than be taught them. As such, they think direct instruction (sage on a stage) leads to rote learning, boredom, lack of conceptual understanding. They favor teachers acting as a "guide on the side", facilitating student learning, as well as project and problem based learning (PBL). Reformers value encouraging math discourse amongst students (which is often done in small groups), giving kids rich tasks to work on with no one right answer (to promote discussion and offer low floor-high ceiling exercises so all kids can participate in the discussion no matter their level of understanding). Are there benefits to both approaches? Sure. But student-led learning works better when they already have a base of knowledge to tap; it's not good for learning foundational concepts. Also, the more complicated the math topic, the more direct instruction is needed. That said, current reform thinking is veering increasingly toward limiting direct instruction which they think will increase student interest in math. As such, districts tell their teachers not to use direction instruction heavily, offer them PD and coaching to move away from direct instruction and mark them down if they do use it heavily. Some districts now want to use the Math Workshop model in middle and high schools too, where students rotate through stations. This is undermining students' ability to develop a core base of math knowledge and is leading to a boom for tutors, RSM, and AoPS which do explicitly teach the concepts.

This is nuts. How are the institutions responsible and tasked with education this inept and incompetent?

It is the current consensus in K-12 education thinking. Like Lucy Calkins was until recently in language arts. Unfortunately, Calkins-like thinking still governs math.

Yes, but this just runs contrary to common sense and the real-world. If students could teach themselves, what would be the role and purpose of teachers?

And these theories have to be proved out with research and experiments, which I presume they've done to substantiate this theory, that continue to fail when they're implemented outside of the confines of their labs. Which should tell them that their labs are unreliable proxies for education in the real world and to tread far more lightly.

True. But when they fall short IRL, the proposed solution is often just more aggressive implementation of the original reform ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a middle school teacher and would like to chime in.

It seems many parents expect their students should be A students. Maybe they traditionally have been- but this is a very difficult class. Your kid getting a C doesn’t mean the teacher is a failure; or that your kid is. Some kids get Cs. Not every kid masters every subject. Many parents think every kid should get an A if they “try” and the parent wants them to.

We can see our child's classes. Some of these teachers aren't teaching. I don't care if my kid gets an A but I do need them to master every subject to succeed in the next year. Thank goodness MCPS offers free tutoring.

[Anonymous]

OP you need to separate two problems and figure out which you want to solve (and if both, attack separately):

1. Your daughter needs to learn calculus, and get a grade that suggests as much
2. Your daughter's teach isn't helping the students in the class learn the material.

For (1), tutor (which you already have). Also, there are now tons of online lectures on standard topics like calculus. Find a good series. Have you daughter use the class period to do work in advance and ignore the teacher's lectures if they aren't effective. Have her do other things during lunch because this teacher isn't helpful.

For (2), document clearly the concerns with specifics. Share these concerns at the end of the year, after grades are out with the teacher, if you feel they will be receptive. or another teacher or administrator if not.

If you are just mad your daughter has a bad teacher, I'm sorry. It happens. Hopefully this teacher will improve. But you have to get over this. Or this is a much, much bigger problem that there is a teacher shortage and we don't train teachers as well as we should or provide good support for new teachers who need help.

I hope this is the type of constructive feedback you are looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

15 minutes of a lesson and then they want small groups to have nothing to do with the lesson...they want to address all of the learning loss of their own doing..meanwhile, last year (when times were sane), small groups would be helping kids with the problem set and focusing on what they didn't understand that day. Then they get mad when kids don't do well on assessments because instead of having them focus on what they are learning, they waste 20 minutes doing group counting. It really is a mess and this is all on the math department.

Unsure what you meant above. Aren't the small groups focused on the same topic as the lesson? Are they working on learning loss topics instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My calc BC teacher was so bad we titled it "teach yourself calc with Mr. X." You should buy the teacher version of the text book they are using and do 3-7 problems a night. This is how I got through (and passed the exam). Having the answers to be able to check them homework made a huge difference and using the same text as in class (e.g., vs. Khan) makes it easier to glean at least something from class time.

There are NO textbooks in MCPS. That is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

15 minutes of a lesson and then they want small groups to have nothing to do with the lesson...they want to address all of the learning loss of their own doing..meanwhile, last year (when times were sane), small groups would be helping kids with the problem set and focusing on what they didn't understand that day. Then they get mad when kids don't do well on assessments because instead of having them focus on what they are learning, they waste 20 minutes doing group counting. It really is a mess and this is all on the math department.

Unsure what you meant above. Aren't the small groups focused on the same topic as the lesson? Are they working on learning loss topics instead?

Are your kids in MCPS? They do a few minute lecture and kids do discussions (i.e. goofing off) and group projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

15 minutes of a lesson and then they want small groups to have nothing to do with the lesson...they want to address all of the learning loss of their own doing..meanwhile, last year (when times were sane), small groups would be helping kids with the problem set and focusing on what they didn't understand that day. Then they get mad when kids don't do well on assessments because instead of having them focus on what they are learning, they waste 20 minutes doing group counting. It really is a mess and this is all on the math department.

Unsure what you meant above. Aren't the small groups focused on the same topic as the lesson? Are they working on learning loss topics instead?

Nope. That’s the time to get them ready for MAP! They just do random concepts students struggle with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

15 minutes of a lesson and then they want small groups to have nothing to do with the lesson...they want to address all of the learning loss of their own doing..meanwhile, last year (when times were sane), small groups would be helping kids with the problem set and focusing on what they didn't understand that day. Then they get mad when kids don't do well on assessments because instead of having them focus on what they are learning, they waste 20 minutes doing group counting. It really is a mess and this is all on the math department.

Unsure what you meant above. Aren't the small groups focused on the same topic as the lesson? Are they working on learning loss topics instead?

Nope. That’s the time to get them ready for MAP! They just do random concepts students struggle with.

That’s all my school is focused on right now too. They are obsessed with MAP scores and care about very little else. It’s honestly all such a joke at this point. This has easily been the hardest year ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

15 minutes of a lesson and then they want small groups to have nothing to do with the lesson...they want to address all of the learning loss of their own doing..meanwhile, last year (when times were sane), small groups would be helping kids with the problem set and focusing on what they didn't understand that day. Then they get mad when kids don't do well on assessments because instead of having them focus on what they are learning, they waste 20 minutes doing group counting. It really is a mess and this is all on the math department.

Unsure what you meant above. Aren't the small groups focused on the same topic as the lesson? Are they working on learning loss topics instead?

Nope. That’s the time to get them ready for MAP! They just do random concepts students struggle with.

They don't prep them for MAP either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's AP Calculus teacher is new to the profession and doesn't seem to do many of the basic things that a teacher should be doing. For example, she spends very little time teaching each new concept and generally teaches them once before testing. She doesn't give practice assignments/homework on the concepts, expecting students to learn them largely from her in-class instruction. When my daughter asks her to re-explain a concept because she didn't understand, the teacher tells her to look at her notes. My daughter feels that the teacher knows calculus as a subject but just cannot communicate it well. As a result, my daughter is not doing well in the class, despite having always earned A's in her math classes along the way and spending a LOT of time on her own trying to study. We've also got her a tutor and that seems to be helping.

I've reached out to the teacher to ask for ideas to help my daughter and she basically says, "have her come in during lunch and work with me." This is something that my daughter already does and it doesn't help. What else can I do at the school level to improve this? Do we just suck it up and accept the fact that she got crappy instruction and will probably end up with a C in the class? (Others are also struggling in th class - I've spoken personally with another parent and also seen many messages on the parent listserv about this class - there is only one teacher who teaches this particular class.)

Could this reflect the current emphasis on limiting the amount of time teachers spend teaching in front of the class and reducing length of homework assignments? As a new teacher, she might be more inclined to listen to in-school advice, whereas more experienced teachers continue to do their own thing even as different pedagogical approaches come and go.

Who came up with this? I'm a math teacher in the same boat.. "15-20 minutes max instruction..." when the already super faced paced version of the lesson is allotted for 30 minutes. The kids need direct instruction, not 70 minutes of small group rotations. They can barely function doing independent work as it is (when they arent meeting with the teacher during that rotation) MCPS is a disaster this year. It is just getting worse.

So how do you teach the remaining 10-15 minutes of the lesson after you hit the the direct instruction limit? Do you have to repeat the remaining part of the lesson to each small group as you rotate through or do you have to compress a 30 minute lesson into 15-20 minutes?

I don’t. “I break the rules.” But it’s absurd this is a thing in the county right now.

Agreed. Glad you keep teaching the lesson. They say they want to encourage "productive struggle". It's not productive if kids sit stumped and frustrated in groups waiting for the teacher to rotate through because insufficient direct instruction time was allotted to teach them the concept before asking them to apply it. This is one reason why there is such demand for outside tutors. Not all teachers do what you do. If a teacher follows the guidance and limits direct instruction, families have to find someone to teach the material to the student.

This is AP Calc though; it's meant to be taught like a college course, for college credits. If your child isn't able to understand the material, perhaps they shouldn't earn the college credit.

Colleges don't set fixed limits on the amount of time allowed for direct instruction. In any case, one of the arguments for having kids take Calculus in high school versus college is that the setting permits (in theory) more instructional time.

I teach Calc in college....we spend almost the majority of the time doing direct instruction. That is how education works. I also teach part time in MCPS and yup, they somehow think student based learning is the way to go. These kinds of things every time someone new goes to a PD or some BS. Students need direct, explicit instruction, and I'm sorry but 15-20 minutes ain't it. Small groups aren't "where the learning happens." (More MCPS bs)

15 minutes of a lesson and then they want small groups to have nothing to do with the lesson...they want to address all of the learning loss of their own doing..meanwhile, last year (when times were sane), small groups would be helping kids with the problem set and focusing on what they didn't understand that day. Then they get mad when kids don't do well on assessments because instead of having them focus on what they are learning, they waste 20 minutes doing group counting. It really is a mess and this is all on the math department.

Unsure what you meant above. Aren't the small groups focused on the same topic as the lesson? Are they working on learning loss topics instead?

Nope. That’s the time to get them ready for MAP! They just do random concepts students struggle with.

That’s all my school is focused on right now too. They are obsessed with MAP scores and care about very little else. It’s honestly all such a joke at this point. This has easily been the hardest year ever.

The best way to prep for math map is to teach them advanced math.