Macalester vs Kenyon vs Oberlin for science major

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oberiln is definitely a school that a prospective student should visit.

Macalester College has a great location--lots to do off campus if feeling constricted by a small school environment. Macalester is strong for math & statistics.

Grinnell College in Iowa is strong in sciences--probably stronger as any of the 3 schools listed by OP--and is just as liberal as Macalester, but a bit less so than Oberlin.

Grinnell is a harder admit (at least in RD)

[Anonymous]

My DS considered all of these and we visited all. Agree with visiting St Olaf as a safety. And Grinnell. You can fly into Minneapolis and see Macalester, St Olaf and Carleton and then go to Grinnell in one trip. That is what we did. Separately visited Oberlin and Kenyon in a different trip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just got back from visiting Kenyon as our STEM DD got in RD. Unfortunately, she was rejected from Oberlin, which was her top choice, mainly for the sciences (regret not having done ED, when she would have had a chance).

She was choosing between Kenyon anc Bryn Mawr. We liked both campuses. But chose BM for three reasons. 1. Kenyon didn't seem to emphasize STEM. All we heard about was writing, which was fine, but not what DD wants to do. 2. Kenyon truly is in the middle of nowhere. There is the college bookstore and a coffee shop and post office that makes up the town, and then literally nothing for miles. We drove on a country road for nearly an hour before we got there. Calling it isolated would be an understatement. 3. I recognize it might be just who we met, but the students were much preppier and maybe frattier (although not full on bro): than we expected. I'm guessing that they draw heavily from Midwestern suburbs.

I'm sure Kenyon is the right place for lots of students, but we felt maybe not the best place for our STEM DD coming from DC.

Good decision. I have 2 STEM kids who along the way in REUs and grad school have met a few BM students, but no one from Kenyon (this came up because both strongly considered going to Kenyon). DS's girlfriend went to BM and raves about it - good luck to your DD!

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

Thank you! I was reading PPs post thinking hmm that’s weird that mac is whiter than oberlin or Kenyon. surely an urban school in a diverse city like MSP is more diverse than a school in rural Ohio. So I see the PP is just wrong! 😆

Macalaster is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I guess you can get picky about how to define urban vs suburban. But GW or NYU or NEU type urban it is not. When you’re on campus you don’t feel like you are in the middle of a big city. Or even a college town.What’s walkable feels suburban, even if it’s with St Paul. I view this as a plus. It has a discrete campus, which many truly urban schools do not.

It also feels very white. That was my impression and both DCs (visited once with each). It doesn’t matter how diverse the surrounding area is. Most kids at these colleges are not from the surrounding areas. The reported numbers seem off for Mac, but they have a high international population, so I think they get counted as “international” and not white. Kenyon and Oberlin— also very white. None of these SlACs are attracting racial diversity.

Um duh? I think everyone knows that St Paul isn’t as bustling urban of a city as DC, NYC, or Boston. That doesn’t make it a suburb.

Mac is in St. Paul, but it's in a suburban part of St. Paul. Somewhat similar to AU being in DC, but the AU neighborhood feeling very suburban.

I live in the twin cities. This is accurate. It is very residential and doesn’t feel very urban.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

Do you mistakenly believe that most international students are white and are therefore being miscategorized? Macalester’s international students mostly come from Asian countries, then African countries, then South American and middle eastern countries…very few of the intl students there are European and if you haven’t already figured out where I’m going w this: most intl students at Macalester are in fact not white.

Yes, but if you're like me and are the parent of a Black child in the US, you look at Mac as 2% African-American. That gets combined with being the metro area that brought the George Floyd murder and still hasn't fixed its police department, and no way is my child going there. We were open enough to go on a visit as my son was being recruited for a sport, and while it's a nice school for some, we did not see it as the right place for my son.

Where did your kid wind up going? We’re looking for a SLAC in an urban area in a blue state so Macalester seems great on paper but I would like more diversity as well.

[Anonymous]

I cannot fathom how there is any decision to be made between Macalester and Kenyon. Macalester is just the better school, for just about anything, by a mile. Oberlin is so out there, that that would have to be your vibe. But Mac and Kenyon? Not even worth fretting over for a minute. Unless Kenyon was offering full-ride, it's just not even a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

Do you mistakenly believe that most international students are white and are therefore being miscategorized? Macalester’s international students mostly come from Asian countries, then African countries, then South American and middle eastern countries…very few of the intl students there are European and if you haven’t already figured out where I’m going w this: most intl students at Macalester are in fact not white.

Yes, but if you're like me and are the parent of a Black child in the US, you look at Mac as 2% African-American. That gets combined with being the metro area that brought the George Floyd murder and still hasn't fixed its police department, and no way is my child going there. We were open enough to go on a visit as my son was being recruited for a sport, and while it's a nice school for some, we did not see it as the right place for my son.

Where did your kid wind up going? We’re looking for a SLAC in an urban area in a blue state so Macalester seems great on paper but I would like more diversity as well.

Wesleyan.

We visited all schools on this list, and oberlin was his runner-up to Wes. The school's history on race is almost unreal and inspiring and the college president spoke at an admissions event and she was so impressive. But Wes is closer to extended family and is stronger in his sport.

He and we liked Occidental a lot too and I think he would have been very happy there. Amherst has a great reputation for Black students, but was a little out of range.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

Do you mistakenly believe that most international students are white and are therefore being miscategorized? Macalester’s international students mostly come from Asian countries, then African countries, then South American and middle eastern countries…very few of the intl students there are European and if you haven’t already figured out where I’m going w this: most intl students at Macalester are in fact not white.

Yes, but if you're like me and are the parent of a Black child in the US, you look at Mac as 2% African-American. That gets combined with being the metro area that brought the George Floyd murder and still hasn't fixed its police department, and no way is my child going there. We were open enough to go on a visit as my son was being recruited for a sport, and while it's a nice school for some, we did not see it as the right place for my son.

Where did your kid wind up going? We’re looking for a SLAC in an urban area in a blue state so Macalester seems great on paper but I would like more diversity as well.

Wesleyan.

We visited all schools on this list, and oberlin was his runner-up to Wes. The school's history on race is almost unreal and inspiring and the college president spoke at an admissions event and she was so impressive. But Wes is closer to extended family and is stronger in his sport.

He and we liked Occidental a lot too and I think he would have been very happy there. Amherst has a great reputation for Black students, but was a little out of range.

Hope this helps.

Very helpful! Thanks. And I hope he loves Wesleyan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

Do you mistakenly believe that most international students are white and are therefore being miscategorized? Macalester’s international students mostly come from Asian countries, then African countries, then South American and middle eastern countries…very few of the intl students there are European and if you haven’t already figured out where I’m going w this: most intl students at Macalester are in fact not white.

Yes, but if you're like me and are the parent of a Black child in the US, you look at Mac as 2% African-American. That gets combined with being the metro area that brought the George Floyd murder and still hasn't fixed its police department, and no way is my child going there. We were open enough to go on a visit as my son was being recruited for a sport, and while it's a nice school for some, we did not see it as the right place for my son.

Where did your kid wind up going? We’re looking for a SLAC in an urban area in a blue state so Macalester seems great on paper but I would like more diversity as well.

Wesleyan.

We visited all schools on this list, and oberlin was his runner-up to Wes. The school's history on race is almost unreal and inspiring and the college president spoke at an admissions event and she was so impressive. But Wes is closer to extended family and is stronger in his sport.

He and we liked Occidental a lot too and I think he would have been very happy there. Amherst has a great reputation for Black students, but was a little out of range.

Hope this helps.

Very helpful! Thanks. And I hope he loves Wesleyan.

Thanks. He does. Lots of good options, but helps to figure out your values and priorities.

[Anonymous]

Two of my kids loved Mac when they applied. One ended up at a similar college on the East Coast and another at a similar college on the West Coast, but Mac is super cool. The Twin Cities are amazing and the culture of Mac is great (artsy, progressive, service focused, international and communal but still practical). Not as intense as Carleton. Not as pretty as Carleton. Much better than Carleton at allowing kids to interact with the real world while in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot fathom how there is any decision to be made between Macalester and Kenyon. Macalester is just the better school, for just about anything, by a mile. Oberlin is so out there, that that would have to be your vibe. But Mac and Kenyon? Not even worth fretting over for a minute. Unless Kenyon was offering full-ride, it's just not even a choice.

Pretty extreme statement. As an HYP grad, I never heard of Mac until kid’s college search process, yet well aware of Kenyon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just got back from visiting Kenyon as our STEM DD got in RD. Unfortunately, she was rejected from Oberlin, which was her top choice, mainly for the sciences (regret not having done ED, when she would have had a chance).

She was choosing between Kenyon anc Bryn Mawr. We liked both campuses. But chose BM for three reasons. 1. Kenyon didn't seem to emphasize STEM. All we heard about was writing, which was fine, but not what DD wants to do. 2. Kenyon truly is in the middle of nowhere. There is the college bookstore and a coffee shop and post office that makes up the town, and then literally nothing for miles. We drove on a country road for nearly an hour before we got there. Calling it isolated would be an understatement. 3. I recognize it might be just who we met, but the students were much preppier and maybe frattier (although not full on bro): than we expected. I'm guessing that they draw heavily from Midwestern suburbs.

I'm sure Kenyon is the right place for lots of students, but we felt maybe not the best place for our STEM DD coming from DC.

So odd to hear this as we just took a science tour at Kenyon and heard that a large number of students hail from the nyc , Ne boarding schools and LA. Hardly the Midwest suburbs! So funny we got such different impressions and info. It is very remote, that I agree with and seems to self select.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot fathom how there is any decision to be made between Macalester and Kenyon. Macalester is just the better school, for just about anything, by a mile. Oberlin is so out there, that that would have to be your vibe. But Mac and Kenyon? Not even worth fretting over for a minute. Unless Kenyon was offering full-ride, it's just not even a choice.

Pretty extreme statement. As an HYP grad, I never heard of Mac until kid’s college search process, yet well aware of Kenyon.

Agree. Extreme and wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

Yes! This was evident on our recent tour. Our guide was a science major and felt it was a really great program (he was getting two degrees - one in music and one in biology I believe)
Number of kids going to their first choice for grad school was very high.
My son isn't looking at sciences so I don't know much about it for any of the schools.
Oberlin seems very different (at least on the surface) from other colleges. Super liberal and really accepting of everyone. I was very impressed.
My son is being recruited at Oberlin and Macalester and hopefully Kenyon.
Haven't been to Macalester but the distance is not a plus for us.
Kenyon is a really nice campus. Seems like a great school. Absolutely zero to do nearby. I drive on a dirt road to get there!
Academics seem first rate at Kenyon. I'm sure you know everything about everyone by the time you graduate which could be good or bad.

I think any of the three would be great for a science major.

[Anonymous]

Seriously?

Kenyon, Oberlin and Mac for STEM? you are trolling, right?