Macalester vs Kenyon vs Oberlin for science major

[Anonymous]

Lena Dunham

Gibson’s

Mallahati

3-1 student to staff ratio

Ohio

No thanks here, but good luck to your kid and hope they find the best fit

[Anonymous]

Any prominent college or university has scandals and alums they would rather not discuss. If your criteria is “the school has never had a controversial incident, alum or faculty member” there would be no college for your kid to attend.

We could talk about THE Ohio State:

Jeffery Dahmer

Gym Jordan, Dr. Strauss and the wrestling program (almost 200 victims)

Urban Meyer

Tattoogate

Also Ohio

Or UNC:

AA Studies “degrees” for athletes

Nikole Hannah-Jones tenure scandal

Anti-trans legislation and HB2

Kenan Stadium only renamed this year

NC is back to Don’t Say Gay (or Trans)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lena Dunham

Gibson’s

Mallahati

3-1 student to staff ratio

Ohio

No thanks here, but good luck to your kid and hope they find the best fit

It is Mahallati. If you are going to list him as a reason to not attend Oberlin, at least get his name right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lena Dunham

Gibson’s

Mallahati

3-1 student to staff ratio

Ohio

No thanks here, but good luck to your kid and hope they find the best fit

It’s a 9:1 student faculty ratio according to US News. 16:1 is the recommended max.

https://collegecliffs.com/frequently-asked-questions/student-faculty-ratio-college-university/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20National%20Center,to%2015%20students%20per%20teacher.

I could find no evidence of a a current student to staff ratio. But 1:3 is low for a private college, but not exceedingly so. Wake, Duke, Vandy, etc are in the 1:4 range. But that’s not surprising. The Conservatory counts in the numbers and they are very non-faculty people heavy. Lots of Adjuncts— professional musicians there for short residencies, etc. So if Wake is 1:4, Oberlin being 1:3 seems right. And if 1:3 is correct, what’s the issue? The number tells you very little if you don’t know where the staff are. Staffing up the cafeteria, maintenance, the counseling center and student health obviously directly helps current students more than a school top heavy in administration and fundraising.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/941779/us-higher-education-leading-universities-student-staff-ratio/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those commenting on diversity, according to this site, Oberlin and Macalester are very similar. https://datausa.io/profile/university/oberlin-college

This site has them about equal on faculty diversity for women/men. Macalester does better for minority faculty though. Both appear to be stronger than Kenyon in this area.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/3/

Overall, though, Macalester does much better in the ranking created from data on diversity and classroom experience. It's #14 vs. Oberlin at #68. Kenyon is #49.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/blog/6/

[Anonymous]

I think we have have officially reached the point in this thread where it no longer helps OP.

OP: Oberlin or Mac for pre-PhD science. Oberlin is probably a bit stronger in PhD production. Bit not enough to tip the scales. And, you need to get in the weeds of bio, vs Chem vs physics vs geoscience, etc to really say.

They are very different campuses and and attract different sorts of kids. It’s hard to imagine visiting and your kid not having a preference.

Suck it up and go in winter. MN and Ohio Lake effect are a shock for DMV kids. And are different types of nasty winter weather. Ohio Lake Effect is wetter/icier. YouR kid deserves to know what they are signing on for.

Second adding St. Olaf if you are a 1/2 hour away. Strong science AND really nice campus feel. It’s a good safety for a kid who is a Mac/Oberlin/Kenyon match. And good safeties are hard to find.

Carleton is also excellent. But I assume based on your list you are looking for merit aid. Carleton doesn’t award merit.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I'd add Wooster as a safety or match with generous merit if your kid is in the running for those other schools. All students do an Independent Study or IS, so all STEM majors have the opportunity for research experience. Oberlin just invited a candidate for hire in the biology department to give a lecture and teaching demo, who graduated from Wooster and did her PhD at Stanford, and my kid was very impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think these are all likely places my strong in science and math child will apply. They love history too. Any thoughts or experience with science post-grad outcomes and which might be better for a well rounded but analytically gifted sort of student?
Appreciate positive comments, please.

Kenyon College is probably not a good match for one interested in science.

Oberlin College is more about fitting in with the campus culture (fairly extreme) and--according to some curent Oberlin athletes--there is a social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

Macalester offers an unusual setting for an LAC.

Have you considered Washington & Jefferson College in Washington, Pennsylvania ? Under 1,200 students but sends an unusually high percentage of students to medical schools.

Carleton College would be another to consider.

Not an LAC, but Washington University in St. Louis is a great choice for one interested in science (biology, chemistry, bio-chem, neuroscience).

Is that stat about Washington and Jefferson current? I live about 45 minutes from the school and it is not a desirable school for students - especially those who aspire to go to med school.

[Anonymous]

https://washjeff.edu/academics/majors-and-minors/partnerships/pre-health-professions-school-affiliations/

link isn't working.

Wash & Jefferson has 9 agreements with medical schools and other health professions including one that reserves 8 spaces for medical school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

That's great! May I ask what STEM field your kid is currently pursuing?

Geology. Which means they also have done work in the Chemistry, Physics and Math departments. Headed to New Zealand this week for a month of field camp focused on vulcanology, plate tectonics and mapping, followed by a Semester at U. Canterbury and a couple weeks for travel. Oberlin is part of the Keck Geology Consortium of SLACs, and they run this program with other Keck members. Won’t be home until late June (gulp, I can send mMy kid halfway around the world for almost 6 months, right?).

Cannot recommend the quality of the science programs highly enough. But Oberlin is geared toward intellectual quirky kids with interests in fine arts. A traditional LAX frat bro would hate it. It’s a school you really need to visit.

So interesting! Congrats to your kid and thanks for sharing

Yeah, if your kid has a specific interest in STEM, be sure to check the actual programs offered at these schools. For instance, Oberlin has a strong geosciences program while Grinnell and Kenyon do not current offer geology as a major. Kenyon also does not currently have a computer science major, only a scientific computing concentration, so keep that in mind if your kid might potentially be interested in CS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The science majors I met while touring Kenyon seemed to have amazing undergraduate research experiences and other support from the college. I was particularly impressed with the number of female science majors in hard sciences.

They do amazing research. Kenyon had an impressive student poster presentation during Parents Weekend to share their research that they did over the summer that I was able to attend. There were probably about 50-75 posters. I know that they have other poster presentations throughout the year.

That's good to know! I'm wondering what tips the scales for a prospective STEM major who chooses Kenyon out of the other Midwestern LACs if the college is more well-known for the humanities. I'm 100% sure that a kid can get an excellent education there, I'm just wondering what entices science-oriented kids to Gambier. Is it the prospect of close mentorship and research opportunities in smaller STEM departments or the option to continue taking English and writing classes? (Oberlin has a creative writing program.) Is it the campus environment and close community there? I do know a very impressive chemistry major but for him, he aimed high and didn't include as many Midwestern matches, so Kenyon was one of the few schools he was considering by the spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oberlin produced 4 Nobel prize winners. I believe 3 were in sciences and the 2021 one in economics. The first was by Robert Millikan. He was the first president of Caltech. Oberlin is hard to beat.

Great information. I googled this.The Nobel prizes won by Oberlin graduates were in 1923, the 1930s, 1945, and, most recently,in 2021 for economics.

I found this: https://bestmastersprograms.org/most-nobel-prize-winners/ is there a list focusing just on LACs regarding Nobelprize affiliations ? TIA

Off the top of my head, not many can beat Oberlin.

Amherst and Swarthmore each has 5.
Pomona College may have 1.

Amherst college has 6 Nobel winners according to a website referenced earlier in this thread.

[Anonymous]

They’re all great schools that have produced well educated and renowned alums. With regard to college rankings, there’s no question that a school’s location will affect its spot on those “best of” lists and frankly, the Midwest is “meh” to most (with the exception of the larger schools like of U. Chicago, U Michigan, OSU, and Notre Dame to name a few ). I’m not entirely sure if there’s a substantial difference in quality between an Amherst or a Grinnell or an Oberlin and a Swarthmore or Kenyon and a Haverford. These SLACS are undergrad focused and your kid will get a great education at any one of them.

[Anonymous]

We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

[Anonymous]

Congratulations to your DC. Macalester is a fantastic school with an understandably international appeal, thanks in large part to one of its famous alums: former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan.


And yes, MN winters are brutal.
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