Can you remind me why my DC will not get into the same schools I did?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad statement that a HYPSM grad can’t puzzle out the math on this.

This.

[Anonymous]

I think you and your child are two different people with different grades, classes etc. I could be wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll help you OP. It’s a freaking arms race of affluent parents making sure their kids are getting the BEST enrichments, tutoring, mentoring, internships, etc. I occasionally interview for my alma mater and times have CHANGED!

I participated in an engineering program at a local college for girls interested in STEM where we built balsa bridges and went on a tour of the water treatment plant. I have interviewed kids who placed at the Westinghouse science competition or have patents. Patents!
I worked at k-mart and Subway. I babysat. These kids intern at companies in the field they are pursuing.
I was president of the French club and 1st chair trumpet in concert band. These kids are establishing their own charity or leading the advocacy for some pet issue with their city/county/state government.

I was smart and hard working. I was the Tracy Flick of my HS - all the APs, all As, all the sports and clubs. Kids “these days” are accomplishing things at 15-17 that upperclassmen at my selective university were not doing when I was there. If kindergarten is the new 1st grade, I’d wager that 16 is the new 21. I always come away from interviews wondering - how the heck did I ever get in, how the heck will my kids ever have a chance.

This post unfortunately highlights many of the "tricks" that kids (for the most part wealthy) can employ to amp their application.

Honestly, getting a patent is easier than you might think...especially if you are getting a business process patent or other patent that takes no real discovery. The hardest part is just knowing to do it in the first place and having the money to smooth the process for you.

The "fake" charity is another great trick. The kid barely does anything as the adults set up the charity for them, and no surprise...the charity disappears once the kid goes to college. Not sure if AO's see through these things or not.

For the record...you are dating yourself. The Westinghouse competition has gone through 3 different hands and is now known as the Regeneron contest. A relatively small number of kids enter Regeneron (I think only like 2,000) each year, with the numbers drastically skewed towards the STEM magnet HSs. As an example, TJ probably has 20 kids enter each year (and Blair has large numbers as well). My kid looked into it and Regeneron actually imposes a number of administrative burdens to enter which makes it difficult to enter if your HS is not willing to assist in creating the various school committees they require. The Magnet schools have the entire institutional framework established, and connections with mentors. This definitely makes it easier.

Other kids set up their own companies (you can do that in less than 10 minutes) and the internships are usually through personal connections. The list goes on.

The PP may not have mentioned your observations, but it didn't read as if they were unaware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP--if your kids are in elementary don't worry too much. The demographic cliff comes in 2026. The applicant pool will start precipitously shrinking at that point. Google it.

Right, but my understanding is that the demographic cliff may still not make much of a dent in apps for top schools, especially HYPSM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll help you OP. It’s a freaking arms race of affluent parents making sure their kids are getting the BEST enrichments, tutoring, mentoring, internships, etc. I occasionally interview for my alma mater and times have CHANGED!

I participated in an engineering program at a local college for girls interested in STEM where we built balsa bridges and went on a tour of the water treatment plant. I have interviewed kids who placed at the Westinghouse science competition or have patents. Patents!
I worked at k-mart and Subway. I babysat. These kids intern at companies in the field they are pursuing.
I was president of the French club and 1st chair trumpet in concert band. These kids are establishing their own charity or leading the advocacy for some pet issue with their city/county/state government.

I was smart and hard working. I was the Tracy Flick of my HS - all the APs, all As, all the sports and clubs. Kids “these days” are accomplishing things at 15-17 that upperclassmen at my selective university were not doing when I was there. If kindergarten is the new 1st grade, I’d wager that 16 is the new 21. I always come away from interviews wondering - how the heck did I ever get in, how the heck will my kids ever have a chance.

DH is a physician currently doing interviews for residency. Every year he says how these applicants are amazing and how he wouldn’t even get an interview now. There are so many students with perfect everything. Perfect test scores. Perfect extracurriculars. Perfect research.

I have a niece that finished her residency at Hopkins Med and has been working there for a few years. I constantly hear from her and other doctors I know that the batch of students coming out of med school these days are ridiculously unqualified. They are not the brightest. I have heard the same thing form professors. Kids in the last 5 years may have more stuff on their college apps and resumes that seem to look impressive, but the meat isn't there.

Because kids are only doing things to pad their resume. Many do not know how to just learn for the sake of learning. They are pushed into "medical field" by parents, not their own actual desire.

[Anonymous]

More people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll help you OP. It’s a freaking arms race of affluent parents making sure their kids are getting the BEST enrichments, tutoring, mentoring, internships, etc. I occasionally interview for my alma mater and times have CHANGED!

I participated in an engineering program at a local college for girls interested in STEM where we built balsa bridges and went on a tour of the water treatment plant. I have interviewed kids who placed at the Westinghouse science competition or have patents. Patents!
I worked at k-mart and Subway. I babysat. These kids intern at companies in the field they are pursuing.
I was president of the French club and 1st chair trumpet in concert band. These kids are establishing their own charity or leading the advocacy for some pet issue with their city/county/state government.

I was smart and hard working. I was the Tracy Flick of my HS - all the APs, all As, all the sports and clubs. Kids “these days” are accomplishing things at 15-17 that upperclassmen at my selective university were not doing when I was there. If kindergarten is the new 1st grade, I’d wager that 16 is the new 21. I always come away from interviews wondering - how the heck did I ever get in, how the heck will my kids ever have a chance.

DH is a physician currently doing interviews for residency. Every year he says how these applicants are amazing and how he wouldn’t even get an interview now. There are so many students with perfect everything. Perfect test scores. Perfect extracurriculars. Perfect research.

I have a niece that finished her residency at Hopkins Med and has been working there for a few years. I constantly hear from her and other doctors I know that the batch of students coming out of med school these days are ridiculously unqualified. They are not the brightest. I have heard the same thing form professors. Kids in the last 5 years may have more stuff on their college apps and resumes that seem to look impressive, but the meat isn't there.

Same observation here at a NYC academic hospital.
The kids look 10x better than I did on paper - they have stellar credentials and are so accomplished by age 22. But, then they just refuse to do the grunt work that makes someone a good doctor once they start residency. It’s terrifying. With the boomers retiring en masse, it feels like all of us suckers in Gen X are propping up a house of cards.

Not sure if it’s that:
1) medicine is falling apart, and the kids figure “why bother?” since their salaries won’t keep pace with inflation, they will just be abused by administrators/insurance companies/patients. A lot of them are biding their time before going into business/pharma, since medicine is such a cluster right now
Or:
2) the kids killed themselves buffing up their college and med school apps, and are already completely burnt out by their early 20s

[Anonymous]

They could get into the schools you attended, but best to go into the process wide open, with your child looking at a wide range of schools. I wouldn't start the process feeling negative (not saying you are), but rather take the info in and help make a great balanced list that everyone feels good about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just talked to a 90s Yale grad whose child just graduated from Yale (kid is a asian, female, very high achieving but no spectacular standout stuff, no big money or connections).

Well, it’s a lottery ticket basically. (Although with legacy it’s probably a bit better than that.). I have nieces that are at an Ivy. I don’t think they are particularly smarter than my kid but something about their application caught someone’s eye. Maybe that they are from a small town. Maybe they had a great teacher rec. Who knows. I figure my equally smart and equally hard working kid has probably a 1/100 chance in getting into the same school. It’s all sort of ridiculous now.
I guess the consolation is that when we went, the only people going to these third tier schools were pretty bad students. Now even great students are going to those schools so the educational experience at those schools is probably a lot better.

[Anonymous]

These were lottery schools even 15 yrs ago and every year has been a little more competitive than the one before.

In particular, this is the third year of widespread test-optional policies, which increased app numbers by a significant amount (and suddenly). Initially, test optional policies were due to covid test date cancelations. It remains to be seen which colleges will keep the policy and which will go back to requiring test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just talked to a 90s Yale grad whose child just graduated from Yale (kid is a asian, female, very high achieving but no spectacular standout stuff, no big money or connections).

Well, it’s a lottery ticket basically. (Although with legacy it’s probably a bit better than that.). I have nieces that are at an Ivy. I don’t think they are particularly smarter than my kid but something about their application caught someone’s eye. Maybe that they are from a small town. Maybe they had a great teacher rec. Who knows. I figure my equally smart and equally hard working kid has probably a 1/100 chance in getting into the same school. It’s all sort of ridiculous now.
I guess the consolation is that when we went, the only people going to these third tier schools were pretty bad students. Now even great students are going to those schools so the educational experience at those schools is probably a lot better.

Not sure what you mean by third tier schools, but many now “safety” schools for top students were actually harder to get into a generation ago; it is the top tier that has changed. Off the top of my head, some of these schools are Trinity, Conn College, Holy Cross, RPI, WPI, Rochester — and I could go on and on.

As for state flagships, both back then and today (admissions rates for many of these, by the way, were lower a generation ago), the “only people” going to these schools were never “pretty bad students.” You have 20-30 thousand undergrads, then and now, and you have a few thousand who are top students rivaling any top students, anywhere.

Keep in mind, also, that college was a little more regional back then, and many students were not as status-conscious in terms of national rankings. Top students were everywhere…

[Anonymous]

If they don’t go, I might hire them. You, however, are not getting a look.

[Anonymous]

I would say the worst thing going for them is that they are not first gen. That and diverse kids are all those schools want today.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot more high-achieving/high ambition kids these days. People looked at who got in and then had their kids take 2x as many APs etc, do more research projects, more awards etc. There was less information pre-internet so only those who were well-connected before really knew what it "took" to get in, now the knowledge is widespread. Add in more generous and more publicized financial aid policies so that smart kids high-achieving low-income kids who would have thought these schools were out of reach due to cost now know better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a sad statement that a HYPSM grad can’t puzzle out the math on this.

+1